Statehood for all U.S. territories that are inhabited and CFAS’s: Yay or Nay?

[OfTheCross]

Lol, doesn’t that sound kinda crazy tho? These people can give us their land and die for the flag but they have to remain in limbo?

I think a gold mine is being missed too lowkey. Millions of people from that side of the world visit Guam every year just because it’s the closest thing to America without having to travel way farther to the mainland or even Hawaii. If anything, turning Micronesia into a highly developed state in the Union might help offset Chinese influence.

I’m also for independence if they choose that. Just lease the land and pay them properly for the military shyt.

Ain't no limbo, bro. The relationship is mutually beneficial. It's not like they're state-less. They literally have their own country plus they get to be US citizens as well.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Ain't no limbo, bro. The relationship is mutually beneficial. It's not like they're state-less. They literally have their own country plus they get to be US citizens as well.

They don’t have their own country breh. They live on U.S. territory. Their basically the island version of DC residents.

Pacific Islanders can’t even get proper VA services without going to the nearest states.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Did a little more digging, I guess now I can understand the conundrum for Guam and North Mariana.

Micronesia as a whole was counter-offered the option of Commonwealth status as a settlement for the Trust Territory relationship by the U.S. which would’ve made damn near 5% of the Pacific, which was administered under the Trust, a part of America like Guam/N. Mariana. But all the islands were split between independence, free association, and commonwealth status. Most chose the current free association which kinda sounds like some protectorate but you get certain sovereign nation perks type of a status and N. Mariana (which Guam later split from) choosing commonwealth which made them a U.S. territory.

Had the whole Trust Territory become a Commonwealth then the idea of statehood would’ve been more feasible with a larger population and area. So it’s more of an in house issue between them imo. Had they all agreed, then they’d prolly be a state by now. If Guam and N. Mariana can convince the rest of their former compatriots that a unified path to statehood benefits them all then Guam and N. Mariana themselves would have a better chance at statehood.

On the other hand, N. Mariana and Guam could also negotiate a free association settlement much like the rest of Micronesia but if the rough economic path and brain drain for some of the islands since those agreements is any indication then it might be a tougher road. It’s weird for them because they chose to further unify with America, so America isn’t as obliged to bolster these places with added rights. As a whole unit with a sea area the size of the continental U.S.? They would’ve fared much better.

Still, I think that shouldn’t deter their own individual paths to statehood just because the rest of the overall unit didn’t follow suit. PR and VI are one thing and I think those are more doable, closer to home, and have sizable minority populations more familiar to the mainland citizens which would make advocating for them more feasible, but I think with the growth of East Asia as a market, travel technology, and China as a geopolitical threat this Pacific Islands question might be something to look out for in the future.

Edit: case in point, someone in Guam advocating for a unified Micronesia as the 51st state. Can’t lie, interesting arguments for both sides: Time is ripe for Micronesia region to consider becoming 51st state

 

[Paper Boi]

Very interesting points you bring up breh. I went to college in a small town so I’m used to that 30K and under shyt. It actually is interesting to me how that would look on a tropical island. I guess for me, my main issue is that these people are in limbo. If they could get participation like any other part of America it would solve the problem. Whether or not Statehood is the only way to do that is another question. In terms of who would move, America has a pioneering spirit by nature, even the groups that were often victimized by it. So I think you’d actually get a decent amount of people moving to these far flung places as long as the jobs and infrastructure were put in place.

It makes me then wonder if there should be a special “island” designation for places that are much smaller in size and population? Like PR can be a state given its pop/size but the others are “islands” with a vote? That’s a little similar to what I think of DC actually. You don’t NEED statehood to fix the inequities of DC. It just need a way for district residents to have their federal vote counted which can be done through Maryland. Perhaps these smaller islands can be legislatively connected to larger islands for their vote? Like PR and VI comprise a bloc and the Pacific islands including Hawaii comprise a bloc? I dunno, just brainstorming solutions because the Senate point is a good one. It’s already insane that Wyoming with 500k got the same Senators as Cali with 30+ mil.

But I think the gentrification aspect is inevitable honestly. Everyone can’t live in Miami, LA, Vegas, or these other warmer places. Sooner or later rich ass developers gon try to make it happen so better that it happen for more left leaning reasons than right leaning.

I meant to reply to this last week, but I think it's still a worthy topic of discussion.


So on your limbo point, I agree that's why I'm on the give them a representative and an electoral vote wave.

I'm really stuck on this issue too, especially now that you brought it up here. There is no easy solution for the territories that aren't PR/DC getting proper representation in my eyes. At least not without a full overhaul of our legislature, which I'd actually support, but that's a different topic and also is never gonna happen lol.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

I meant to reply to this last week, but I think it's still a worthy topic of discussion.


So on your limbo point, I agree that's why I'm on the give them a representative and an electoral vote wave.

I'm really stuck on this issue too, especially now that you brought it up here. There is no easy solution for the territories that aren't PR/DC getting proper representation in my eyes. At least not without a full overhaul of our legislature, which I'd actually support, but that's a different topic and also is never gonna happen lol.

It’s a really interesting topic that we don’t look at often enough. It could have huge implications on passing certain agendas and perhaps even breaking the gridlock on the Hill. I’ve kinda formed my opinions on it though. PR should definitely be a state, DC I’m 50/50 on cuz I actually understand where Nap is coming from about keeping it a neutral federal city. DC’s demographics are changing fast so it might be so reliably Blue in a few decades.

The other territories are more of a challenge. Guam/Mariana imo couldn’t be states by themselves. If they unify with the Compact countries they could but not sure about how much desire there is for that. VI is kinda the same for me, if US/British VI was one political entity then it’d have the space for a population influx to make it more attractive for statehood.

But to enfranchise the territories regardless of statehood is tricky. I don’t see anything wrong with that, but it still doesn’t address lack of representation or representative power in the Legislature. It’s a good problem to have in a globalized world imo. As much as these cacs love to gentrify the hood id rather they just go to the territories and leave nikkaz alone.

 

[Paper Boi]

It’s a really interesting topic that we don’t look at often enough. It could have huge implications on passing certain agendas and perhaps even breaking the gridlock on the Hill. I’ve kinda formed my opinions on it though. PR should definitely be a state, DC I’m 50/50 on cuz I actually understand where Nap is coming from about keeping it a neutral federal city. DC’s demographics are changing fast so it might be so reliably Blue in a few decades.

The other territories are more of a challenge. Guam/Mariana imo couldn’t be states by themselves. If they unify with the Compact countries they could but not sure about how much desire there is for that. VI is kinda the same for me, if US/British VI was one political entity then it’d have the space for a population influx to make it more attractive for statehood.

But to enfranchise the territories regardless of statehood is tricky. I don’t see anything wrong with that, but it still doesn’t address lack of representation or representative power in the Legislature. It’s a good problem to have in a globalized world imo. As much as these cacs love to gentrify the hood id rather they just go to the territories and leave nikkaz alone.

Yeah, I actually want these places to get real representation rather than using as a political tool.

That's definitely been a thing that's out there since I can remember "If we just give all the territories statehood then we'd never lose an election again," and I just don't think that's factual. I think the move for a straight up popular vote would have more support if the strategy is to just never lose to Republicans again.

I still do struggle with the fact that they have no or limited representation. I think 1 vote, 1 rep is at least a happy medium for now. It's like "you're not a state, but we recognize you have your own problems that need addressing"

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Yeah, I actually want these places to get real representation rather than using as a political tool.

That's definitely been a thing that's out there since I can remember "If we just give all the territories statehood then we'd never lose an election again," and I just don't think that's factual. I think the move for a straight up popular vote would have more support if the strategy is to just never lose to Republicans again.

I still do struggle with the fact that they have no or limited representation. I think 1 vote, 1 rep is at least a happy medium for now. It's like "you're not a state, but we recognize you have your own problems that need addressing"

Facts, I can agree with that. I’d be happy if they at least get a vote and a rep. They get neglected like shyt because they aren’t considered as closely involved. PR’s problems are fukkin crazy for them to be a U.S. territory.

Plus as you said these aren’t slam dunk Dem strongholds. Pacific Islanders is heavy on that military shyt and most end up in small rural towns on the mainland so there’s prolly right leaning feelings in some aspects, PR has a strong Rethug party, and VI is Dem but that’s just one spot. I think it’s more about doing right by these people.

 

[Elim Garak]

I would like to see this for any territory that wants to be part of the United States if they want independence let them go.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

I would like to see this for any territory that wants to be part of the United States if they want independence let them go.

Same. I’m not sure how eager America would be to just toss independence around but it would be good of them to do. I think it should be statehood/representation or independence. I think the cap is at free association, they’ll prolly give em independence if that’s the absolute only thing they will accept.



If nothing else, not to condone it, but there’s an opportunity to play politics with this topic. The politician(s) that take up their cause and win will have juice. I’m actually interested in what AOC thinks about statehood, she strikes me as a supporters of independence.

 

[mastermind]

I would like to see this for any territory that wants to be part of the United States if they want independence let them go.

This is how I feel too

 

[Gains]

taxation without representation