SUPERMAN by James Gunn (OUT now)

[wire28]

There's a space for radical Kryptonians who think humans are lesser species deserving to be dominated - and it's Zod and his goons.

I just don't see what is gained by this decision, definitely a weird one.

Nobody is arguing that it ruins the movie.

Shyt I'm about to see it for the third time tomorrow, before FF4 takes over the IMAX screenings, and I think it's a mistake to make Jor-El suspicious and directly goes against the championing of immigrants which Gunn is claiming this film/the Superman story does

Maybe Jor El and people like him are just like regular species-ists and Zod is like a Bull Connor version on krypton. So relatively speaking, Superman’s parents aren’t that bad in the grand scheme

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Gunn doesn’t have room or the grace to be making fundamental changes like this as his gambling with a lot.

What do you mean by this? It's funny to me how people in here got lost when I started talking about the word of mouth the movie is receiving but it all relates back to comments like these. If it's true that people have an issue with the change, there's no evidence out there to support it. This reminds me of the Snyder cult campaigns and for people to "boycott" the film. It didn't go anywhere. A vocal minority online is still a minority online.

 

[Json]

There's a space for radical Kryptonians who think humans are lesser species deserving to be dominated - and it's Zod and his goons.
directly goes against the championing of immigrants which Gunn is claiming this film/the Superman story does

I’m pretty sure the “evil” Jor-el was done in Smallville like 20 years ago for the same reason. To make Clark question who the Kryptonians actually were.

The idea that people can reinvent themselves is kind of the fundamental idea of immigrants. Just cause you came from dirt farmers doesn’t mean your kids can’t be scientist.

 

[Soymuscle Mike]

What do you mean by this? It's funny to me how people in here got lost when I started talking about the word of mouth the movie is receiving but it all relates back to comments like these. If it's true that people have an issue with the change, there's no evidence out there to support it. This reminds me of the Snyder cult campaigns and for people to "boycott" the film. It didn't go anywhere. A vocal minority online is still a minority online.

You're the only one arguing whether the Jor-El shyt should have an impact on the success of the movie or not

I haven't seen anybody claim that this will hurt the movie. Only that it hurts the lore, and that it dilutes the championing of immigrants which Superman originally, and according to Gunn in this movie, stands for.

For me, I still love this movie - I just dislike that aspect. Again I'm seeing it for the third time tomorrow, so just like me I don't expect this to be a showstopper.

I think I saw BvS like 6 times in the cinema, even if there were parts of it which I disliked - I spent my money on it over and over, and still doing it as I copped the 4k recently.

 

[Soymuscle Mike]

I’m pretty sure the “evil” Jor-el was done in Smallville like 20 years ago for the same reason. To make Clark question who the Kryptonians actually were.

The idea that people can reinvent themselves is kind of the fundamental idea of immigrants. Just cause you came from dirt farmers doesn’t mean your kids can’t be scientist.

Smallville's Jor-El actually visited Earth himself, and met Jonathan's father (or grandfather) and had such trust in humans that he specifically sent Kal to the Kent's descendants.

You might be thinking of his brother Zor-El, who thought Jor-El was too much a pacifist. He definitely was not "evil" in the Show, unless I'm forgetting something as I only watched it during the initial run?

And again, the creation of Superman was somebody who was proud of his immigrant heritage and uses it for good (S on his chest famously stands for "hope"). To me that's much more powerful than what Gunn now created, and is truly championing the immigrant story. I'm very hesitant to say shyt like them "coming from dirt farmers", as that's the MAGA talking points (not saying that's what you're doing).

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

You're the only one arguing whether the Jor-El shyt should have an impact on the success of the movie or not

I haven't seen anybody claim that this will hurt the movie. Only that it hurts the lore, and that it dilutes the championing of immigrants which Superman originally, and according to Gunn in this movie, stands for.

For me, I still love this movie - I just dislike that aspect. Again I'm seeing it for the third time tomorrow, so just like me I don't expect this to be a showstopper.

I think I saw BvS like 6 times in the cinema, even if there were parts of it which I disliked - I spent my money on it over and over, and still doing it as I copped the 4k recently.

What does "Gunn doesn't have the room or grace to be making these changes" mean if not to imply that the change will or has hurt the reception of the film? That's why I asked the poster what he meant. There's more posts like it. Those are the posts I've been responding to and I disagree completely that it changes who Superman is or what he represents for the people on earth. You said you're seeing it for a third time, you're going to see how it's made quite clear by the end of the movie that everyone loves and trusts Superman again as the hero they need. Others are arguing against that notion, saying that the people in the movie are distrusting him, he proves to them again at the end where he stands, there's nothing more to read into it.

 

[Soymuscle Mike]

What does "Gunn doesn't have the room or grace to be making these changes" mean if not to imply that the change will or has hurt the reception of the film? That's why I asked the poster what he meant. There's more posts like it. Those are the posts I've been responding to and I disagree completely that it changes who Superman is or what he represents for the people on earth. You said you're seeing it for a third time, you're going to see how it's made quite clear by the end of the movie that everyone loves and trusts Superman again as the hero they need.

I'm not arguing how people view Superman, I'm arguing that making Jor-El somebody Clark doesn't trust is to me a lesser version of the Superman I love (he's my GOAT).

As for the Gunn comment, I mean he's the head of DC and he seems to have instantly revived or at least bought back a whole lot of good will for the DCU, so seems like he's got the juice for now and can do what he wants. He's gotten my money three times over already, but I saw MoS 4 times

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

I'm not arguing how people view Superman, I'm arguing that making Jor-El somebody Clark doesn't trust is to me a lesser version of the Superman I love (he's my GOAT).

As for the Gunn comment, I mean he's the head of DC and he seems to have instantly revived or at least bought back a whole lot of good will for the DCU, so seems like he's got the juice for now and can do what he wants. He's gotten my money three times over already, but I saw MoS 4 times

You can obviously hold that opinion, I never argued against people's opinions, I argued against the idea of "will or has hurt the reception" There's minor details in the movie that I didn't like as I pointed out in my reviews.

And the immigrant argument, there's threads on how MAGA views the movie and it doesn't add up to some of the claims I saw last night. MAGA hates the movie and has been railing against it. Seen below:

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/fox-news-is-mad-at-the-new-superman-movie-for-being-too-pro-immigrant.1090607/

 

[Json]

Smallville's Jor-El actually visited Earth himself, and met Jonathan's father (or grandfather) and had such trust in humans that he specifically sent Kal to the Kent's descendants.

You might be thinking of his brother Zor-El, who thought Jor-El was too much a pacifist. He definitely was not "evil" in the Show, unless I'm forgetting something as I only watched it during the initial run?

And again, the creation of Superman was somebody who was proud of his immigrant heritage and uses it for good (S on his chest famously stands for "hope"). To me that's much more powerful than what Gunn now created, and is truly championing the immigrant story. I'm very hesitant to say shyt like them "coming from dirt farmers", as that's the MAGA talking points (not saying that's what you're doing).

No I’m talking about this. I don’t remember the show that well anymore but I do remember that Jorel sent me here to conquer arc




At his creation Jorel wore a sun symbol. The S stood for Superman . 78 movie made it the House symbol. That S stands for hope is Snyder stuff. He was an orphan who didn’t know where he was from. He became Superman. You’re just picking and choosing Superman lore to fit a narrative

How is “ kids can be scientists” MAGA? Immigrants come for a better life for themselves and kids which is 100% the message of the movie.

In the current Absolute Superman comic the El family are miners/farmers.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

No I’m talking about this. I don’t remember the show that well anymore but I do remember that Jorel sent me here to conquer arc

Yes, in 'Smallville' his Kryptonian destiny was to rule earth. They later played around with Jor El's persona, he did all kinds of fukked up shyt in early seasons through the AI persona but it was also revealed that parts of him were left out of the AI construct. Gunn didn't pluck that arc out of nowhere, it's an idea that's been played with through several iterations in TV and comics.

 

[King Static X]

"Smallville" isn't the holy grail of Superman lore. Honestly, I never cared for Smallville anyway.

Superman is a child of TWO worlds. His Kryptonian side should never be diminished or reduced. Krypton represents the life he was supposed to live but is lost forever.

 

[Json]

Yes, in 'Smallville' his Kryptonian destiny was to rule earth. They later played around with Jor El's persona, he did all kinds of fukked up shyt in early seasons through the AI persona but it was also revealed that parts of him were left out of the AI construct. Gunn didn't pluck that arc out of nowhere, it's an idea that's been played with through several iterations in TV and comics.

Which is why I’m finding it odd this has become a point of contention with some. Way more than Thomas Wayne going from innocent guy who got popped and created Batman to not so innocent guy involved with shady mobs and who got popped and created Batman. Batman didn’t know the killer to Batman knew the killer to Bruce tried to kill Joe Chill.

It’s never mattered who the Kryptonians were(and they have been portrayed as stubborn, ignorant, and war mongers outside of Jor-el) and it doesn’t matter cause Superman is t fighting for Krypton heritage and never has.

 

[King Static X]

It’s never mattered who the Kryptonians were(and they have been portrayed as stubborn, ignorant, and war mongers outside of Jor-el) and it doesn’t matter cause Superman is t fighting for Krypton heritage and never has.

This is NOT true at all

 

[etrofllenrod504]

Movie should’ve been called Krypto and friends since he had all the major “hero” parts. This shyt was mid. Superman getting smacked up for the entirety of the movie just ain’t it. Gunn nerfed him too much in this.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Which is why I’m finding it odd this has become a point of contention with some. Way more than Thomas Wayne going from innocent guy who got popped and created Batman to not so innocent guy involved with shady mobs and who got popped and created Batman. Batman didn’t know the killer to Batman knew the killer to Bruce tried to kill Joe Chill.

I predicted it earlier in the thread that it would happen. Superman and Batman have been around for close to a hundred years with many iterations. Everything Gunn did in this movie are things that have been previously explored in comics, in TV, etc. The issue you're always going to have with Superman and Batman is any new series is that it will not please 100% of the people because it's not "their Superman" like with 'Man of Steel' and how different it was for the Donner fans who said it wasn't "their Superman." Everyone has their own idea of what these heroes are. As long as the most basic elements of the lore and character are followed, it shouldn't be much of an issue and the fact that this has excellent reception by any metric you want to look at speaks to how well Gunn did in incorporating the different iterations of the character.