Tanzania drops English as the language of instruction in secondary schools

[mbewane]

I didn't mean literal 500 years, I mean like multi hundred exaggerating lol.

My kid probably won't know lingala. It will be the language of whatever country Im in. Plus the language we are speaking at home, which would be english. I am american after all....

Keyword here: what country we are in. If you live in Congo, the odds of the local language going extinct is rare, not to say it doesn't happen, it happened in the past, latin is no longer spoken, however, we're not really conquering each other anymore. Thats why I believe it will be harder. Now in 1,000 years, who knows, Im sure lingala will be ancient and past. No language lasts forever, but its yet to be seen what will happen now that we live in the age of information. Maybe english will be the one and only language, or some english based language (think latin) which is evolved and incorporates various languages, slangs from all over the world. Only time will tell, wish I were alive to hear it.

but I think now that we have a worldwide database (internet) we can always pull up and learn languages of the past. and so it wont really go extinct like say some Hittite language from ancient days that no one can even learn to speak today.

Well some conquering is still going on, if not militarilly then politically and, indeed, linguistically. Most people have no idea about the politics of language, but do we really believe it's a coincidence that Rwanda has been the golden child of international institutions ever since Kagame switched from french to english? is it really a coincidence that the EU has made a clear neo-liberal direction ever since English has become the de facto lingua franca? Those are forms of "soft" conquers, but with very real effects in everyday life. America's most efficient weapon has always been Hollywood, not their physical weapons.

But anyway yeah it's impossible to predict anything about languages, but in today's world linguistici diversity is really in danger, which means cultural diversity is in danger, and very few people are aware of it nor realize the implications.

Please teach lingala to your kid, it's only people who DO speak their language who do not realize the importance/luck of being able to do so. I can't put enough emphasis on this, believe he/she'll thank you. Trust me it's fukked me up beyond what I can express in words the fact that I don't speak my parents mother tongues

 

[lenfantdelacapitale]

Although I appreciate this effort, Tanzania has had it pretty stable in terms of lack of ethnic conflicts so it is easy for them to come under one language. I don't know about larger country with greater populations and diverse ethnic populations where people have a hard time communicating with their own countrymen

 

[mbewane]

People overate language on the international front. Sure Senegalese can do business with people in Canada as they can speak French, but ultimately the end result could be met with no French ever having been spoken. Thats why I gave an example of the Chinese..Ive met many that cant speak English but can communicate well enough to get business. The idea of needing some European language to do international business is 1980s thinking directed at Blacks only to allow someone to dominate us through language and culture. In the 90's many American business people took classes in Japanese thinking it would held them somehow.

No one needs to learn German in order to do business with Germany, no one needs to learn Mandarin or Cantonese to get business in China, or needing to learn Punjabi cause you want a deal in India. Its a power game language. Why then didnt all those conquering Europeans learn the languages of the Natives they invaded?

Sure, but why NOT use a language you already have? You're reasoning in a "or/or" logic, the world isn't binary breh. Speaking french gives me more cultural affinities and understanding with other francophones, but I speak 3 other languages for various reasons, so I can indeed communicate with an Indian in english or get by speaking broken spanish to a Colombian. But obviously my communication with be smoother with another francophone, what's the point in not using that? shyt if it were for me everyone would be speaking 5 or 6 languages.

The point is not "european" languages, I don't care which languages it is you speak. The fact is that some countries have access to global languages that are useful, and it would be stupid to not use that advantage because, as you put it, it's a power game. But what is funny is that research in the UK has pointed the risk...of only speaking english. Only Englsih-speakers and monolingual people really believe that "everyone speaks english" and that people interact the same way in their own language as they do in a foreign language.

Conquerors have almost never learned the local languages, we know that, just look at the US. On the other hand, a lot of the Chinese moving to Africa learn local languages, why? Because they know that not "everyone speaks english" and that it's obviously easier doing business with people in their language than in another. It's funny you brought up China because that's actually also one of the places where the teaching of...French is absolutely booming. And, at the same time, they are setting up Confucius institutes everywhere.

 

[Big Blue]

The american dollar and euro are not backed by anything.
Africa sits on the largest reserves of gold and diamonds. If africa had a centralized bank, and backed a unified currency with gold, it would crush the monopoly money that US and europe plays with.

 

[Tommy Knocks]

Well some conquering is still going on, if not militarilly then politically and, indeed, linguistically. Most people have no idea about the politics of language, but do we really believe it's a coincidence that Rwanda has been the golden child of international institutions ever since Kagame switched from french to english? is it really a coincidence that the EU has made a clear neo-liberal direction ever since English has become the de facto lingua franca? Those are forms of "soft" conquers, but with very real effects in everyday life. America's most efficient weapon has always been Hollywood, not their physical weapons.

But anyway yeah it's impossible to predict anything about languages, but in today's world linguistici diversity is really in danger, which means cultural diversity is in danger, and very few people are aware of it nor realize the implications.

Please teach lingala to your kid, it's only people who DO speak their language who do not realize the importance/luck of being able to do so. I can't put enough emphasis on this, believe he/she'll thank you. Trust me it's fukked me up beyond what I can express in words the fact that I don't speak my parents mother tongues

the problem I have with that statement is that its not true. Africa have been speaking european languages for hundreds of years, and their culture is still in tact.

Not hating on african languages, but they just dont have the dictionary, and grammatical guidelines that english and french have. There is no dictionary for lingala. in fact the language is so primitive it has to borrow from french for some expressions. Thats pretty bad.

mandarin is also primitive grammatically but atleast they'll combine words to form new ones. computer means electric brain. why they didnt just create a new word is behind me, but thats why english is so proficient, its always evolving. The english, when it came to language, got it right. Its even better than french and spanish.

 

[LadySimone]

If you don't plan on doing business with white folk then why bother? No african country should have to depend on europeans. Africa has way too many natural resources for all that. If anything, europeans should be learning african languages.

Refer back to what Malcolm X said about foreign languages. Its knowledge and knowledge is power.

 

[Tae]

I disagree with this. Knowing English is pretty important in this globalized society.

English will still be available as a second language, it will no longer be taught as the main language children learn.
Even in many European countries their mother tongue is taught as the main language and a second language such as English or Spanish is mandatory.
So why is it an issue for an African nation to do the same?

 

[lenfantdelacapitale]

the problem I have with that statement is that its not true. Africa have been speaking european languages for hundreds of years, and their culture is still in tact.

Not hating on african languages, but they just like the dictionary, and grammatical guidelines that english and french have. There is no dictionary for lingala. in fact the language is so primitive it has to borrow from french for some expressions. Thats pretty bad.

mandarin is also primitive grammatically but atleast they'll combine words to form new ones. computer means electric brain. why they didnt just create a new word is behind me, but thats why english is so proficient, its always evolving. The english, when it came to language, got it right. Its even better than french and spanish.

why are all those guidelines necessary if you can communicate. Every person who comes to Kin from other parts of the country whether it be Kivu Kasai or Katanga adapt very well and start speaking Lingala . It's "primitive" because there isn't a strong written tradition as with most African languages don't. Of course there are a few throw away words in French and some new words due to new things in the world. A word like computer" didn't exist 100 years ago in Lingala because it didn't exist back then but that doesn't prevent or act as a barrier to communication. In addition, the reason why Lingala is "primitive" is actually because it is spoken in the commercial capital where a lot of French speakers are so it's easy mix and mesh. If you study the other Congolese languages like Luba or KiKongo, you rarely if ever find words from other languages incorporated into their own. The rural areas with little Western influence tend to have more of a "pure" language how ironic?

 

[Tommy Knocks]

why are all those guidelines necessary if you can communicate. Every person who comes to Kin from other parts of the country whether it be Kivu Kasai or Katanga adapt very well and start speaking Lingala . It's "primitive" because there isn't a strong written tradition as with most African languages don't. Of course there are a few throw away words in French and some new words due to new things in the world. A word like computer" didn't exist 100 years ago in Lingala because it didn't exist back then but that doesn't prevent or act as a barrier to communication.

Because in order to teach it, you need more than just verbal lessons. Since I speak both, I can assure you english is far FAR more expressive than lingala and chinese. Its easier to communicate and get a point across with precision pin point accuracy in your expression, which is important for a business communication, and higher education.

When its time to teach physics, using a primitive language which refuses to evolve and create new words can be dangerous, I see this every day when Im dealing with medication and complex compounds here in china.

 

[lenfantdelacapitale]

Because in order to teach it, you need more than just verbal lessons. Since I speak both, I can assure you english is far FAR more expressive than lingala and chinese. Its easier to communicate and get a point across with precision pin point accuracy in your expression, which is important for a business communication, and higher education.

When its time to teach physics, using a primitive language which refuses to evolve and create new words can be dangerous, I see this every day when Im dealing with medication and complex compounds here in china.

If you study the other Congolese languages like Luba or KiKongo, you rarely if ever find words from other languages incorporated into their own. The rural areas with little Western influence tend to have more of a "pure" language how ironic? Physics, Calculus and spanish were the classes that I destroyed when I came to an English speaking country without the mastery of the language. You last point about a language being expressive is all about perspective and subjective. It is hard to believe that Chinese for a LONG time is somehow lacking in expression especially with all the time it had to evolve

 

[Tommy Knocks]

If you study the other Congolese languages like Luba or KiKongo, you rarely if ever find words from other languages incorporated into their own. The rural areas with little Western influence tend to have more of a "pure" language how ironic? Physics, Calculus and spanish were the classes that I destroyed when I came to an English speaking country without the mastery of the language. You last point about a language being expressive is all about perspective and subjective. It is hard to believe that Chinese for a LONG time is somehow lacking in expression especially with all the time it had to evolve

Im serious mandarin is pretty cut and dry.

There are a million ways to say sad or crying, but in mandarin, its pretty cut and dry. Now phonetically its one of the most complex languages in the world. the word shi, depending on how you deliver it with your mouth can mean 20 different things.

Destroying math isn't that impressive since numbers are a universal language, so yes, I believe you mastered calculus, africans and chinese come to america and crush the game. I stated physics because it uses more than math. Try law school and all the above always flop. Law utilizes word play, language and expression. The way you word something can sway a jury, and there are is practically hundreds of ways to convey a message and point across, while being blunt but conniving.

 

[Birnin Zana]

Try law school and all the above always flop. Law utilizes word play, language and expression. The way you word something can sway a jury, and there are is practically hundreds of ways to convey a message and point across, while being blunt but conniving.

If one is advanced enough at a certain language, he/she can use it a certain way in an appropriate setting. There are lawyers practicing law in nations all over the world in languages besides English and they are doing just fine. Same thing applies to other professions.

Also, concerning languages having to borrow words from other languages to fill a gap: that happens eveytime in every language. In fact, English, especially American english, does it often. For example, words Like lieutenant, dossier, and so on are French words Anglos changed the pronunciation of, which isnt a big deal. As long as the person you are talking to understands what you said and how you meant to say it, all is good.

Concerning the OP, I'm perfectly fine with it. It's not like English is dropped completely, it will be available as a foreign language. Those that plan on entering a field in which English may be helpful in advancing their careers can do so if they wish, like many others around the world do.

Personally, I wonder what would happen if all black African countries Had one common African language (in addition to their local dialect) to communicate with. The possibilities...

 

[mbewane]

the problem I have with that statement is that its not true. Africa have been speaking european languages for hundreds of years, and their culture is still in tact.

Not hating on african languages, but they just dont have the dictionary, and grammatical guidelines that english and french have. There is no dictionary for lingala. in fact the language is so primitive it has to borrow from french for some expressions. Thats pretty bad.

mandarin is also primitive grammatically but atleast they'll combine words to form new ones. computer means electric brain. why they didnt just create a new word is behind me, but thats why english is so proficient, its always evolving. The english, when it came to language, got it right. Its even better than french and spanish.

Breh I get that you were exagerating the first time for fun, but Africa has NOT been speaking european languages for hundreds of years. Colonization really only started at the end of the 19th century, that's just over a hundred years ago. And to this day it's mostly elites and people living in cities who speak european languages. For comparison sake, Arabic has been in Africa for way longer and is more widely spread.

Culture is intact? I'm not sure at all about that, because when you listen to old heads talk about political systems, traditions and yes, some languages, the cultures are far from intact. I've never heard anyone say that about Africa post-colonization.

African languages do have dictionnaries, just not widely spread/used. I have a french-sango-lingala dictionnary on my desk right now. Wolof has grammar books. Work is being done on those languages. African philosophers and writers are writing in their languages. Senegal just introduced the use of national languages in their parliament (translation booths paid for by the EU). But you seem to think that our languages don't have the "inherent" qualities to be languages of science or whatever. No offense, but that's absolute bullshyt. I'm actually appaled you would call your own language "primitive", that's exactly the type of auto-bashing that have led our countries not to develop strong linguistic and cultural policies, because it's so "primitive" anyway and the French and English are so much "advanced" than us, blah.

Do you know that at least a third of english words...were borrowed from french? Ain't nothing wrong with borrowing some words. Hell Bush said "French doesn't have a word for entrepreneur"...too ignorant to know that "entrepreneur" is a french word borrowed by english

English is not "better" than any other language, the reason it is at the forefront now is strictly due to the political, economical and military power of the US. Otherwise, the english language would have dominated the world before the US became the leading power of the world post WW2, and we both know (or at least I hope you do) that was not the case. Circumstances made english the current lingua franca, not any inherent qualities it may have. Speaking both, I can tell you that English for example is less precise than French, especially regarding law. That's why most deliberations at the European Court of Justice happen in ONE language : French. And also why Palestinians use the french version of UN resolution 242 rather than the english one, because the one is french is more precise about which territories Israël should withdraw from.

I don't know the last time you spoke french, but french, as any language, is constantly evolving.

This reasoning is like some non-English speakers eager to let their own language/culture/identity go because "English is better" and "My language/culture is primitive". I know the type, it's quite common in expat circles, especially in Brussels.

 

[intruder]

Why? English doesn't stand for Imperialism now, it's just the language of the world. Why phase yourself out?

You obviously dont understand imperialism

 

[mbewane]

If one is advanced enough at a certain language, he/she can use it a certain way in an appropriate setting. There are lawyers practicing law in nations all over the world in languages besides English and they are doing just fine. Same thing applies to other professions.

Also, concerning languages having to borrow words from other languages to fill a gap: that happens eveytime in every language. In fact, English, especially American english, does it often. For example, words Like lieutenant, dossier, and so on are French words Anglos changed the pronunciation of, which isnt a big deal. As long as the person you are talking to understands what you said and how you meant to say it, all is good.

Concerning the OP, I'm perfectly fine with it. It's not like English is dropped completely, it will be available as a foreign language. Those that plan on entering a field in which English may be helpful in advancing their careers can do so if they wish, like many others around the world do.

Personally, I wonder what would happen if all black African countries Had one common African language (in addition to their local dialect) to communicate with. The possibilities...

There actually was a short-lived projet, I think in the 70s, to have Swahili taught all over Africa (plus the local languages obviously). Soyinka talked about it at a conference I went to.