Terrible gen continues: Sony closes Down Guerilla Cambridge

[Dominic Brehetto]

Not disagreeing with you, but could it be possible that as technology continues to advance, they are finding themselves in a position to be able to streamline the company more than before?
I've never had any interest in the business side of video games. Do you keep up with this information? Is there proof the actual video game market shrunk and if so can it be attributed to anything specific?
Again, I'm not saying you're wrong in what you're saying, just that I've never kept up with the business aspect and wonder if you already have a general grasp of what's really going on and why. (Outside of the stan responses we see on here all the time "That's because console gaming is dead because the PC master race runs this blah blah blah").
I know consumer habits have changed drastically as a consequence of the changes in the economy overall.

I have anecdotal evidence of my own and just reading the tea leaves


I live in Vancouver,there are a lot of studios here.

But they are shrinking. United front just closed

I have friends that have walked away from the industry because they don't see the future and stability in it.

I mean just ask yourself, can you say the AAA space and console gaming is as healthy as it was? Is there less studios?

All these studio closures add up. Their aren't new big studios replacing them.


They're all going to the indie space which is healthy and alive


But do you need a ps4 pro to play indies? No,you don't. You can play them cheaply on a PC.


PC gaming is as big and as healthy as its ever been in PC history.


That's why I don't argue with @itsyoung!! Because I agree with him.


Console gaming is just not in a good place. It's just not realistic or viable to create games with 50-100 million budgets and have to hit every single one.


I mean what if horizon flops? How could guerilla itself survive that? Kill zone wasn't some mammoth franchise.

I'm not saying I can't be wrong,I'm just looking back and saying this is not a sustainable eco system the way indies and PC is.

Consoles are in an arms race of who can build the biggest and best looking games while their ammunition (studios) keeps shrinking every year.

This is a distinct pattern for 2 gens in a row of studios closing up shop and not bein replaced by other studios.


Sony isn't replacing these studios and they already have enough problems just getting the studios they do have to release games.


We are 3 years into this gen and some of their studios haven't even release a single game yet

 

[Fatboi1]

You don't think the fact that the studio that made sonys premiere launch VR game closed is troubling?

Who else is going to make VR games?


This is a distinct pattern.


What else is next?

What if dreams bombs? Media molecule would close


What if days gone bombs? Sony bend will close.

How's Sony London doing?


How many studios does Sony have that can survive a bomb? Naughty dog? Santa Monica maybe?


What studios is Sony creating to fill these closures? They aren't

Is this a serious question? Guerilla Cambridge isn't the ONLY dev making VR games for the PSVR.

Bend Studio Bend, Oregon, USA 1993 Originally named Blank, Berlyn and Co. and Eidetic, it was acquired by Sony in 2000. Games developed include the Syphon Filter series. Active
ForwardWorks Tokyo, Japan 2016 Aimed to deploy new services toward the ever-expanding smart device market. Active
Foster City Studio Foster City, California, US 1998 Responsible for overseeing the development of first-party games by external developers. Active
Guerrilla Games Amsterdam, Netherlands 2000 Acquired by Sony in 2005. Games developed include the Killzone series and Horizon Zero Dawn. Active
Japan Studio Tokyo, Japan 1993 Includes J.S.E.D.D., PlayStation C.A.M.P, Team Ico and Team Gravity. Games developed include Ape Escape, Soul Sacrifice, Tokyo Jungle, Patapon, Loco Roco, Ico and Shadow of Colossus. Active
London Studio London, UK 1993 Formed in 2012 by the merger of Psygnosis and Team Soho. Games developed include the SingStar franchise. Active
Media Molecule Guildford, UK 2006 Acquired in 2010. Games developed include the LittleBigPlanet series and Tearaway. Active
Naughty Dog Santa Monica, California, US 1984 Originally named as Jam Software, the studio was acquired in 2001. Games developed include Crash Bandicoot, Jak and Daxter, Uncharted and The Last of Us. It also houses the ICE Team. Active
SIE Manchester Studio Manchester, UK 2015 Games for PlayStation VR. Formerly called North West Studio.[17] Active
PixelOpus San Mateo, United States 2014 Announced by Sony Computer Entertainment as part of its SCE WWS at E3 2014, developer of Entwined. Active
Polyphony Digital Tokyo, Japan 1992 Originally a development group within Sony Computer Entertainment known as Polys Entertainment. Games developed include the Gran Turismo series. Active
Project Siren Tokyo, Japan 2004 Development branch of SIE Japan Studio. Games developed include Siren and Gravity Rush. Active
San Diego Studio San Diego, California, US 2001 Games developed include the MLB: The Show series and The Mark of Kri. Active
San Mateo Studio San Mateo, California, US 2016 [18] Active
Santa Monica Studio Playa Vista, Los Angeles, US 1999 Games developed include the God of War franchise. It has an external development branch that funds and provides support for a wide variety of games. Active
Sucker Punch Productions Bellevue, Washington, USA 1999 Acquired by Sony in 2011. Games developed include Sly Cooper and Infamous. Active

Defunct:

989 Studios Los Angeles, United States 1995 Closed in 2005. Developed numerous sport titles and several games in the Twisted Metal franchise. Defunct
BigBig Studios Warwickshire, UK 2001 Closed in 2012. Games developed include Pursuit Force. Defunct
Guerrilla Cambridge Cambridge, UK 1997 Founded as SCE Cambridge Studio. In 2012 it became the sister studio of Guerrilla Games. Closed in 2017. Games developed include the MediEvil series. Defunct
Contrail Tokyo, Japan 1997 Closed in 2000. Games produced include Legend of Legaia and Wild Arms 2. Defunct
Evolution Studios Cheshire, UK 1999 Acquired in 2007, closed in 2016. Games developed include the MotorStorm series, the WRC series and Driveclub. Defunct
Incognito Entertainment Salt Lake City, US 1999 Closed in 2009. Games developed include the Twisted Metal series and Warhawk. Defunct
Studio Liverpool Liverpool, UK 1984 Acquired in 1993, closed in 2012. Games developed include the Wipeout series and Formula One video game series. Defunct
Zipper Interactive Redmond, Washington, USA 1995 Acquired in 2006, closed in 2012. Games developed include the SOCOM series. Defunct

There's still quite a few studios open and that's not counting "2nd" party studios and third parties.

Saying the studio closed because of ONE game is kind of incorrect because like Evolution Studios, they didn't get shut down because of JUST Driveclub. They also had trouble with their last game on PS3, Motostorm Apocalypse from what I remember. if I can find the info later I'll post it.

MM if they were being closed would've been shut down a while ago as they both made Tearaway and LBP 3 which I'm probably sure didn't light the world on fire. If we look at the studios closed here, it's usually studios that originally made games that nowadays would be seen as "indie" games.

Most of the guys from Evolution has now joined Codemasters who make racers. As a matter of fact, I just saw that Codemasters will be bringing Dirt Valley or w/e to VR.

As for itsyoung, you cannot tell me this dude don't be saying some dumb shyt.

this the same guy that kept hollering about UC4 flopping, how the sales of it don't count because it's probably halfway bundled, how PS4 is a flop and won't sell a lot long term but we're going on to 4 years now and PS4 still selling strong but queue the vague "hardware is down YoY" retort.


I'm not arguing about the PC gaming is bigger overall as that's captain obvious territory and some devs making money there arguments aren't disputed. He's not exactly enlightening anyone by saying there's money made in places like Korea because these FTP game make buck. Don't nobody be even starting these arguments saying PC gaming is weak or not profitable in the 1st place, usually it's just someone saying they don't care about it and he brings up financial/population numbers as if that really matters in that context.

I usually hate his incessant need to remind people that people should collectively turn off their PS4 and hop on Counterstrike or baldur's gate because "PC gaming is $$$" like we completely off topic now. Like we'll be talking about how BF1 or TF2 is healthy online on PS4 or w/e and this guy will bring up some irrelevant topic about how there's more people playing DOTA or something. Stuff that's really irrelevant and only brought up to just argue for the sake of arguing. That dude is beyond obnoxious.

As for your last question, I think Sony's plan isn't to "replace" those studios but to let other companies drop their titles on PS4 and partner up to make bank. Like how Sony doesn't need to "make" a 1st party studio drop lots of money on a AAA JRPG for instance because... PS4 is pretty much the default platform for many JRPGS anyway and lots of em are exclusive.

Sony in 2014 sold gangbusters because of a Destiny partnership and that game wasn't even exclusive. At this point the writing is on the wall, it's easier to make money and less risky when betting on another third party rather than fund a in house potential flop. but Idk I don't follow this aspect of gaming that deep I just skim through articles/threads online here and there.

 

[Kamikaze Revy]

I have anecdotal evidence of my own and just reading the tea leaves


I live in Vancouver,there are a lot of studios here.

But they are shrinking. United front just closed

I have friends that have walked away from the industry because they don't see the future and stability in it.

I mean just ask yourself, can you say the AAA space and console gaming is as healthy as it was? Is there less studios?

All these studio closures add up. Their aren't new big studios replacing them.


They're all going to the indie space which is healthy and alive


But do you need a ps4 pro to play indies? No,you don't. You can play them cheaply on a PC.


PC gaming is as big and as healthy as its ever been in PC history.


That's why I don't argue with @itsyoung!! Because I agree with him.


Console gaming is just not in a good place. It's just not realistic or viable to create games with 50-100 million budgets and have to hit every single one.


I mean what if horizon flops? How could guerilla itself survive that? Kill zone wasn't some mammoth franchise.

I'm not saying I can't be wrong,I'm just looking back and saying this is not a sustainable eco system the way indies and PC is.

Consoles are in an arms race of who can build the biggest and best looking games while their ammunition (studios) keeps shrinking every year.

This is a distinct pattern for 2 gens in a row of studios closing up shop and not bein replaced by other studios.


Sony isn't replacing these studios and they already have enough problems just getting the studios they do have to release games.


We are 3 years into this gen and some of their studios haven't even release a single game yet

I hear you and your reasoning is sound.
For me though, the points you mentioned aren't enough for me to say with certainty that console gaming is dead/dying, or that any one company is in danger.
My day job involves looking at key market shares and financial performance/potential to make informed business decisions, so I'd be interested in information about the gaming market specifically from a financial perspective with hard facts to support one conclusion or the other.
Like I said, consumer habits have changed drastically due to technological advances. I've seen it in my line of work clearly.
I would imagine in the US you would find consumers spending a lot less on video games due to the economy and not necessarily due to product quality or availability, which would mean that as the economy continues to grow, studios will begin to re-open and we will see the rise of completely new studios.
The way we consume media has changed the market incredibly. We see it clearly in the music industry.
This is definitely the time for indie studios to shine, but even that market is quickly becoming over saturated with mediocre product (just like the music industry).
We see companies in the communication sector, and automotive sectors be acquired by larger companies or shut down because of their inability to compete with these companies. This alone isn't an immediate indicator of a shrinking market though.
All that to say, I don't disagree with you, I'd just be interested in gathering more information. I'll have to look into it when I get a little more time.

 

[Prince Akeem]

Shame.
I really liked Killzone Mercenary(Low-key the best Killzone game imo)

 

[Mowgli]

What elite game were they making?

Exactly they weren't making shyt I give a fukk about.

 

[daze23]

PSVR needs a Home-like social game. a vr theatre, a indie vr games in the arcade, avatars, customizable homes; shyt would get it poppin.

Rec Room for the Vive is like that

 

[Kamikaze Revy]

What elite game were they making?

Exactly they weren't making shyt I give a fukk about.

 

[marcuz]

Rec Room for the Vive is like that

 

[Mowgli]

Exactly. They weren't making classics. They weren't making elite shyt so sony told um switch up ya flow ya shyt is Gawbige. fukk outta here.

Studios get closed every day b. Especially when they aren't making shyt I care about. Wow.

.
.
.
.
BLaow

 

[Leasy]

PC gaming is the future with the work in progress titles you pay as it develops. These Sony and Microsoft companies putting too much unrealistic pressure on these studios it's not worth it anymore. Free creative control on PC

 

[KermitDaFrawg]

Just another reason to join the PCMR
Devs don't have to rely on a console to make it big

 

[Dominic Brehetto]

Is this a serious question? Guerilla Cambridge isn't the ONLY dev making VR games for the PSVR.



Defunct:

989 Studios Los Angeles, United States 1995 Closed in 2005. Developed numerous sport titles and several games in the Twisted Metal franchise. Defunct
BigBig Studios Warwickshire, UK 2001 Closed in 2012. Games developed include Pursuit Force. Defunct
Guerrilla Cambridge Cambridge, UK 1997 Founded as SCE Cambridge Studio. In 2012 it became the sister studio of Guerrilla Games. Closed in 2017. Games developed include the MediEvil series. Defunct
Contrail Tokyo, Japan 1997 Closed in 2000. Games produced include Legend of Legaia and Wild Arms 2. Defunct
Evolution Studios Cheshire, UK 1999 Acquired in 2007, closed in 2016. Games developed include the MotorStorm series, the WRC series and Driveclub. Defunct
Incognito Entertainment Salt Lake City, US 1999 Closed in 2009. Games developed include the Twisted Metal series and Warhawk. Defunct
Studio Liverpool Liverpool, UK 1984 Acquired in 1993, closed in 2012. Games developed include the Wipeout series and Formula One video game series. Defunct
Zipper Interactive Redmond, Washington, USA 1995 Acquired in 2006, closed in 2012. Games developed include the SOCOM series. Defunct

There's still quite a few studios open and that's not counting "2nd" party studios and third parties.

Saying the studio closed because of ONE game is kind of incorrect because like Evolution Studios, they didn't get shut down because of JUST Driveclub. They also had trouble with their last game on PS3, Motostorm Apocalypse from what I remember. if I can find the info later I'll post it.

MM if they were being closed would've been shut down a while ago as they both made Tearaway and LBP 3 which I'm probably sure didn't light the world on fire. If we look at the studios closed here, it's usually studios that originally made games that nowadays would be seen as "indie" games.

Most of the guys from Evolution has now joined Codemasters who make racers. As a matter of fact, I just saw that Codemasters will be bringing Dirt Valley or w/e to VR.

As for itsyoung, you cannot tell me this dude don't be saying some dumb shyt.

this the same guy that kept hollering about UC4 flopping, how the sales of it don't count because it's probably halfway bundled, how PS4 is a flop and won't sell a lot long term but we're going on to 4 years now and PS4 still selling strong but queue the vague "hardware is down YoY" retort.


I'm not arguing about the PC gaming is bigger overall as that's captain obvious territory and some devs making money there arguments aren't disputed. He's not exactly enlightening anyone by saying there's money made in places like Korea because these FTP game make buck. Don't nobody be even starting these arguments saying PC gaming is weak or not profitable in the 1st place, usually it's just someone saying they don't care about it and he brings up financial/population numbers as if that really matters in that context.

I usually hate his incessant need to remind people that people should collectively turn off their PS4 and hop on Counterstrike or baldur's gate because "PC gaming is $$$" like we completely off topic now. Like we'll be talking about how BF1 or TF2 is healthy online on PS4 or w/e and this guy will bring up some irrelevant topic about how there's more people playing DOTA or something. Stuff that's really irrelevant and only brought up to just argue for the sake of arguing. That dude is beyond obnoxious.

As for your last question, I think Sony's plan isn't to "replace" those studios but to let other companies drop their titles on PS4 and partner up to make bank. Like how Sony doesn't need to "make" a 1st party studio drop lots of money on a AAA JRPG for instance because... PS4 is pretty much the default platform for many JRPGS anyway and lots of em are exclusive.

Sony in 2014 sold gangbusters because of a Destiny partnership and that game wasn't even exclusive. At this point the writing is on the wall, it's easier to make money and less risky when betting on another third party rather than fund a in house potential flop. but Idk I don't follow this aspect of gaming that deep I just skim through articles/threads online here and there.

Simply listing songs studios isn't an answer to who is making VR games.


There's 0 chance studios like guerilla,sant Monica,naughty dog,suckered punch etc are making VR games.


Sony needs them for ps4 games.

Sony had guerilla Cambridge making games for vita and VR,they knew they had little chance of making profits on those games.


If Sony isn't willing to bite the bullet on taking losses on VR games VR is done already. Straight up. Other studios aren't to chance making games for such a small platform and take losses when Sony themselves aren't going to do it.



Media molecule didn't make lbp 3,sumo digital did. Tearaway was a small budget vita game.

Dreams has been in development for over 5 years and we don't even have a release date. If that game fails mm is gone almost 100%.


And your last point is just bizzare.


Sony's strength as company is their diverse collection of studios.


We give Microsoft shyt for not having one and for doing exactly what you're saying Sony will be doing by leaning on other companies

That is not a way to sustain your platform.

Trying to compete with a company with deep pockets like microsoft is a disaster waiting to happen going that route.

Sony strength is weakening every year,there's no way to put a positive spin on that.

 

[Dominic Brehetto]

Shame.
I really liked Killzone Mercenary(Low-key the best Killzone game imo)

I legit hoped their next game was going to be a kill zone VR game.

 

[Fatboi1]

Simply listing songs studios isn't an answer to who is making VR games.


There's 0 chance studios like guerilla,sant Monica,naughty dog,suckered punch etc are making VR games.

The point isn't if those studios will make VR games, it's just that there's other devs like 2nd and 3rd party devs that can make games for VR. You said yourself it's not smart for them to invest millions of dollars into a game that may flop and end up hurting them so why would they then try and spend time investing 50M on a AAA game especially for VR?? Smaller side teams/ outsourced teams can still make games.

Edit: Studios Sony has making PSVR games: Manchester London, Media Molecule and Japan. They've also got parnterships with indies and 3rd parties. It hardly breaks the VR front.

Sony needs them for ps4 games.

Yeah

Sony had guerilla Cambridge making games for vita and VR,they knew they had little chance of making profits on those games.

So then, it makes sense in a way to not keep a studio around that's not really going to make profit open right? At the end of the day, Sony is a business, not charity. I know they may come out on stage and say "For the Players!" and whatnot but if the players spending habits are changing and certain things aren't the same as they were back then on PS3/2/1 then seems like you see why they'd close em but then you want them to not close them because they just should take losses regardless.

If Sony isn't willing to bite the bullet on taking losses on VR games VR is done already. Straight up. Other studios aren't to chance making games for such a small platform and take losses when Sony themselves aren't going to do it.

I guess that's why they're starting small and building up like for example VR in games like GT Sport was said to be a separate mode, probably something not as exhaustive as the main game but something that wouldn't take too much out of making the base PS4 game. From how I see it, Sony isn't worried in the VR market because no one else has a console and VR setup. They've still got a few 'big' titles for VR coming out like RE7, Ace Combat, Farpoint, Dreams etc. Notice how these titles, barring Farpoint are regular games that have a VR mode too. They're banking on keeping costs down while bring more titles to the platform.

Media molecule didn't make lbp 3,sumo digital did. Tearaway was a small budget vita game.

Yeah my mistake on that one. It brings me to my point not every studio is making huge AAA games with enormous dev costs. So we don't even know how much Dreams costs to make so saying if Dreams flop then it's over is kind of premature in that we don't know the investment/profit ratio.

Dreams has been in development for over 5 years and we don't even have a release date. If that game fails mm is gone almost 100%.

See my last point. You're assuming Dreams dev time/investment is some expensive

And your last point is just bizzare.


Sony's strength as company is their diverse collection of studios.


We give Microsoft shyt for not having one and for doing exactly what you're saying Sony will be doing by leaning on other companies

That is not a way to sustain your platform.

Trying to compete with a company with deep pockets like microsoft is a disaster waiting to happen going that route.

Sony strength is weakening every year,there's no way to put a positive spin on that.

How is it bizarre? Sony still has a diverse collection of studios. We gave Microsoft shyt because they in fact don't have a diverse array of studios and we have actual proof for that.

Sony currently has 12 studios making non mobile games. PS3 gen from 2006-2013 they had 16. 4 studio difference isn't the end of the world and current studios have expanded compared to the PS3 era.

We have yesteryear to see what's been happening on this front while we can also look at what Sony has dropped and what they're dropping in the relative future. The day when we can point to Sony Santa Monica, Japan Studio, Media Molecule, Polyphonal Digital and perhaps Sony Bend all have been closed and the exclusives for the 1st parties end up being a rotation of 2-3 franchises is when we can actually worry. Right now it's a bit cynical to say they're heading in the same direction as Microsoft especially at this point when there's still so much to come on the Horizon.

You're extrapolating Sony's "strength" dwindling because of closure of a small european studio for niche platforms is a bit of a reach. I don't think it's that serious yet.

 

[MewTwo]

The rising costs of game development is a very serious and scary problem. Companies left and right will go bankrupt. Games will be cancelled. Big companies will be too afraid to take risks.

Just be glad that Nintendo is making lowend hardware where development isn't super expensive.