Test Pilot Admits the F-35 Can’t Dogfight

[MoneyTron]

And the military learned a long time ago there's no such thing as a do it all jet. I knew this project was a boondoggle because of the history of projects like this. Some CEO bribed the hell out of whoever was in charge to push this con job through.

You say the military says there's no do it all jet but the Super Hornet is doing that very thing for the Navy right now. It almost covers all missions off the carrier outside of mail delivery.

Your logic is flawed from the military's perspective. I'll tell you why.

The government through the 60's to the 80's developed fighters for very specific reasons.

F-14: long-range naval interceptor
F-15: air superiority
F-16: lightweight, cheap air to air fighter
F/A-18: lightweight, cheap carrier attack fighter
Harrier: forward operating strike fighter

Here's the problem, all of those platforms experienced mission creep. They all ended being used in ways the original designers never dreamed of and spawned all types of special variants.

We ended up developing the Strike Eagle, the Super Hornet, ground attack F-14s with laser guided bombs, F-16s doing anti-radar missions and becoming primarily AtoG aircraft, we ended up scrapping the original Harrier and building a version that was almost all-new internally. Billions upon billions spent modifying all of those planes.

This...

Turned into this...

So that begs the question...we know it will be inherently difficult from the outset but why not build a multirole aircraft with commonality across all services?

Now were there mistakes made? Yes. Was it overly ambitious? Yes. Could you consider the F-35 as an airframe flawed in performance because of it? You'd have a good case.

But I definitely think it will be worth the trouble in the long run.

 

[MoneyTron]

In addition, with the new software, the F-35 should be a pretty good in a dogfight. F-22, Euro plane, Russian backflip jet level? No, but it should be able to make older aircraft pay fairly easily.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

The F-35 was manufactured in like 45 different states and 97 different congressional districts or some stupid shyt like that, just to spread the pork around enough to ensure it would be approved. The amount of pure self-interest that goes into defense budget decisions nowadays is ridiculously stupid.

Freaking Eisenhower, a Republican and a celebrated general and war hero, WARNED US way back in the 1950s that this military-industrial complex was our greatest worry as a nation. And we still keep ignoring him.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Turned into this...

The amount of ordinance on that thing.

 

[Jazzy Jay]

Pilots Say F-35 Superior Within Visual Range: Dogfight Criticisms Laid To Rest

Gunn told reporters at a briefing here that he had gone up against a friend in an F-16 a few months ago. Though the F-35 “performed very well,” he made clear that it hadn’t been dominant. They flew again recently and the F-16 pilot was amazed by the improvement in the F-35’s performance. “What have they done to your jet?” the pilot said, according to Gunn. “The difference is we have learned how to fly the jet… and better understand where its advantages are.”

 

[Self_Born7]

isnt this some top secret information ? why would u release this information to the public for enemies to see

the Clintons already released top secret info to the chinese during his term. and a Hillary aid, left a laptop of top secret info in china not to long ago.

 

[Originalman]

The F-35 was manufactured in like 45 different states and 97 different congressional districts or some stupid shyt like that, just to spread the pork around enough to ensure it would be approved. The amount of pure self-interest that goes into defense budget decisions nowadays is ridiculously stupid.

Freaking Eisenhower, a Republican and a celebrated general and war hero, WARNED US way back in the 1950s that this military-industrial complex was our greatest worry as a nation. And we still keep ignoring him.

Lockheed does this as a strategy. The C-130 is built like this as well. It is to prevent any politican from trying to cut the budget. Then they will have to go to the folks who voted them in and say I OKed the budget being cut and the loss of jobs in the state.

 

[tru_m.a.c]

Great thread guys. Interesting seeing the opposing viewpoints.

 

[intruder]

...

This...

Turned into this...

So that begs the question...we know it will be inherently difficult from the outset but why not build a multirole aircraft with commonality across all services?

Now were there mistakes made? Yes. Was it overly ambitious? Yes. Could you consider the F-35 as an airframe flawed in performance because of it? You'd have a good case.

But I definitely think it will be worth the trouble in the long run.

I think there was one mistake in your post. The pics of the two F-15 Eagles you posted are pretty much close so id say they are essentially the same if you look at the fuselage.These are F-15E's

The way i identify an original F-15 (models A-C) is by looking at how thick the area around the intake is as that layer of thickness was added during the expansion. Also the original F-15's intake pointed straight forward whereas the D m-E models have a slight downward slope . See pic below which is one of the originals

F-15C

F-15E

I could be wrong about how i some of this but im sure both the ones you posted are almost the same except for payload

 

[MoneyTron]

I think there was one mistake in your post. The pics of the two F-15 Eagles you posted are pretty much close so id say they are essentially the same if you look at the fuselage.These are F-15E's

The way i identify an original F-15 (models A-C) is by looking at how thick the area around the intake is as that layer of thickness was added during the expansion. Also the original F-15's intake pointed straight forward whereas the D m-E models have a slight downward slope . See pic below which is one of the originals

I could be wrong about how i some of this but im sure both the ones you posted are almost the same except for payload

It's a C with CFTs. SHould've used a regular one. You can tell the year USAF planes enter service on the vertical stabs. The first pic entered service in '80 so its a pretty early model.

 

[OfTheCross]

$2T for planes that don't fly...

Would you pay $1.7 trillion for a plane that couldn’t fly? – Responsible Statecraft

Congress dumb as fukk, good God.