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Willson Contreras :praise: this dude gonna be the best catcher in mlb next year 
The 2017 MLB Random Thoughts Thread
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Ken rosenthal article on the trade deadline pump faking
The Astros entered Monday thinking they were going to trade for three relievers:
Francisco Liriano, Zach Britton and a third, unidentified high-end type whose addition would have surprised the industry, according to major-league sources.
The Astros landed only Liriano, who has yet to pitch in relief this season, but had a 5.88 ERA in 18 starts for the Blue Jays.
“We had a couple of other deals on the plate,” Astros owner Jim Crane told ESPN 97.5 Radio in Houston. “They were agreed on in principle. Then medicals were exchanged and they got vetoed at the top.”
Crane declined to specify which players the Astros were trying to acquire, but sources provided further details.
The mystery reliever stayed put when his team’s owner decided against trading him, while the Britton talks broke down - as negotiations with the Orioles sometimes do - when the O’s raised concerns about the medical condition of at least one player coming back to them.
Whatever the reasons, the consensus among many in the industry and inside the Astros’ clubhouse was that general manager Jeff Luhnow did not do enough to improve the team’s sagging pitching staff. Ace left-hander Dallas Keuchel was openly critical of the outcome, telling reporters, “I’m not going to lie. Disappointment is a little bit of an understatement.”
The Astros’ failures at the deadline were not for lack of effort. But they made six to seven prospects off-limits in discussions for Britton and Padres left-hander Brad Hand, sources said. They perhaps were too confident of completing a trade with the Orioles, a team that executives frequently describe as difficult to deal with. And they were unable to implement contingencies - unlike the Dodgers, who also pursued Britton.
The Dodgers, at one point Monday, also felt they were progressing toward a deal for Britton, sources said. But about one hour before the deadline, the Orioles pulled back and informed the Dodgers that they would not trade their reliever, a two-time All-Star.
Instead, the Dodgers acquired two lesser left-handed relievers, Tony Watson and Tony Cingrani. Watson, who rebounded in July after pitching poorly in May and June, is probably a better bet to succeed than Liriano will with the Astros; Cingrani, who has had a rocky season, is more of a longshot.
The difference between the Dodgers and Astros, of course, is that the Dodgers still wound up making a major move, acquiring one of the biggest prizes of the deadline, right-handed starter Yu Darvish.
The Astros made a late run at Darvish and in their estimation offered a stronger package than the Dodgers, sources said. The Rangers held a decidedly different opinion, viewing the Astros’ offers for Darvish, both early and late, as non-competitive – and Rangers ownership had given the front office permission to make the best baseball trade, even if it was with the cross-state and division rival Astros, sources said.
Another team that pursued Britton, the Cubs, took a more aggressive stance with the Orioles than the Astros, refusing to wait until the final day for the negotiations to resolve.
The Cubs, who were in simultaneous talks for Justin Wilson, the Tigers’ left-handed closer, gave the Orioles a deadline of Sunday night to make a decision, sources said. When the Orioles balked, saying they needed until Monday, the Cubs traded for Wilson and catcher Alex Avila.
Wilson and Britton, in the Cubs’ estimation, were equal targets with different strengths, upsides and risks, sources said. Britton, has missed more than 2½ months with a strained left forearm this season. Wilson has never been on the disabled list and came at a lower acquisition cost; the Cubs acquired him and Avila for two prospects, third baseman Jeimer Candelario and shortstop Isaac Paredes.
The danger in waiting for Britton, the Cubs believed, was that the Orioles would “go dark” and stop communicating with them for several hours on Monday - a common experience for teams that engage with the O’s, according to rival executives.
The Cubs wanted no part of such uncertainty, sources said.
They knew Orioles owner Peter Angelos was a stickler for “clean” medicals, and feared a delay close to the deadline might leave them with nothing. Rather than take such a risk, they jumped on the proverbial “bird in the hand” - Wilson. If they instead had landed Britton, they might have acquired Avila anyway or made a smaller deal for a different catcher, sources said.
The Astros, too, were well aware of the Orioles’ reputation as an occasionally difficult negotiating partner. Luhnow, though, had completed three trades with Orioles counterpart Dan Duquette – including a deadline deal in 2013 in which the Astros acquired left-hander Josh Hader, outfielder L.J. Hoes and a 2014 competitive-balance pick for right-hander Bud Norris.
This time was different.
The Orioles went dark on both the Astros and Dodgers for several hours, sources said; the breakdown with the Astros occurred while the teams were in the medical review stage.
“Teams make agreements with contingencies which become deals when the contingencies are removed,” Duquette said. “It’s part of the process.”
Luhnow declined comment.
Teams assign their own standards to medicals, just as they assign their own values to players. The Orioles and Astros had a difference in opinion on the players in the package for Britton, sources said.
The Orioles believed that one of the Astros’ prospects had a legitimate medical problem and thought another might be questionable.
The Astros considered their players healthy, and concluded that Angelos and/or Duquette simply got cold feet – a belief that was reinforced to them when the Orioles passed on proposed substitutes for the players at the center of the disagreement.
The teams talked once more shortly before the deadline, but the Orioles asked for a package beyond Houston’s comfort level, sources said.
The Orioles, at times, indeed seemed torn.
Britton had come off his second trip to the DL on July 5, and the Orioles considered him to be sound, justifying a return comparable to the packages the Yankees received for Aroldis Chapman and Andrew Miller at last year’s deadline. In the Orioles’ view, Britton’s forearm strain was relatively mild - closer to his wrist, and not a precursor to a torn elbow ligament that would require Tommy John surgery.
Other clubs, meanwhile, suspected all along that the Orioles would not sell, knowing the team had done so only once since Angelos purchased the club in 1993.
Duquette was on record as saying that he wanted to improve his roster. In the end, that’s what he did, acquiring right-hander Jeremy Hellickson and shortstop Tim Beckham – and suddenly the Orioles are on a five-game winning streak, moving to within 2½ games of the second wild-card spot.
The Astros, after getting caught in the Orioles’ tangled web, chose not to make a run at the Padres’ Hand, the third quality left-handed reliever on the market, after Britton and Wilson. Those talks, sources said, disintegrated down over differences in Hand’s perceived value.
The Astros and other teams considered the Padres’ asking price as unreasonable, but one Padres official said the club did not ask for any players ranked among the game’s top 100 prospects - a claim disputed by executives from two of Hand's suitors after the initial publishing of this story.
As for the Astros’ list of untouchables, it varied depending upon the player they were trying to acquire, sources said.
The team discussed major-league pieces in certain trades, and considered only two prospects completely off-limits. One, presumably, was outfielder Derek Fisher, who currently is the team’s leadoff hitter and starting left fielder and viewed by the club as a critical piece going forward.
The bottom line is this:
In trading season, fans and players care little about reasons deals collapse; they care almost solely about results.
The Astros had three trades for relievers lined up on Monday. And the only one they completed was for Liriano, a pitcher who is not a guarantee to help.
Francisco Liriano, Zach Britton and a third, unidentified high-end type whose addition would have surprised the industry, according to major-league sources.
The Astros landed only Liriano, who has yet to pitch in relief this season, but had a 5.88 ERA in 18 starts for the Blue Jays.
“We had a couple of other deals on the plate,” Astros owner Jim Crane told ESPN 97.5 Radio in Houston. “They were agreed on in principle. Then medicals were exchanged and they got vetoed at the top.”
Crane declined to specify which players the Astros were trying to acquire, but sources provided further details.
The mystery reliever stayed put when his team’s owner decided against trading him, while the Britton talks broke down - as negotiations with the Orioles sometimes do - when the O’s raised concerns about the medical condition of at least one player coming back to them.
Whatever the reasons, the consensus among many in the industry and inside the Astros’ clubhouse was that general manager Jeff Luhnow did not do enough to improve the team’s sagging pitching staff. Ace left-hander Dallas Keuchel was openly critical of the outcome, telling reporters, “I’m not going to lie. Disappointment is a little bit of an understatement.”
The Astros’ failures at the deadline were not for lack of effort. But they made six to seven prospects off-limits in discussions for Britton and Padres left-hander Brad Hand, sources said. They perhaps were too confident of completing a trade with the Orioles, a team that executives frequently describe as difficult to deal with. And they were unable to implement contingencies - unlike the Dodgers, who also pursued Britton.
The Dodgers, at one point Monday, also felt they were progressing toward a deal for Britton, sources said. But about one hour before the deadline, the Orioles pulled back and informed the Dodgers that they would not trade their reliever, a two-time All-Star.
Instead, the Dodgers acquired two lesser left-handed relievers, Tony Watson and Tony Cingrani. Watson, who rebounded in July after pitching poorly in May and June, is probably a better bet to succeed than Liriano will with the Astros; Cingrani, who has had a rocky season, is more of a longshot.
The difference between the Dodgers and Astros, of course, is that the Dodgers still wound up making a major move, acquiring one of the biggest prizes of the deadline, right-handed starter Yu Darvish.
The Astros made a late run at Darvish and in their estimation offered a stronger package than the Dodgers, sources said. The Rangers held a decidedly different opinion, viewing the Astros’ offers for Darvish, both early and late, as non-competitive – and Rangers ownership had given the front office permission to make the best baseball trade, even if it was with the cross-state and division rival Astros, sources said.
Another team that pursued Britton, the Cubs, took a more aggressive stance with the Orioles than the Astros, refusing to wait until the final day for the negotiations to resolve.
The Cubs, who were in simultaneous talks for Justin Wilson, the Tigers’ left-handed closer, gave the Orioles a deadline of Sunday night to make a decision, sources said. When the Orioles balked, saying they needed until Monday, the Cubs traded for Wilson and catcher Alex Avila.
Wilson and Britton, in the Cubs’ estimation, were equal targets with different strengths, upsides and risks, sources said. Britton, has missed more than 2½ months with a strained left forearm this season. Wilson has never been on the disabled list and came at a lower acquisition cost; the Cubs acquired him and Avila for two prospects, third baseman Jeimer Candelario and shortstop Isaac Paredes.
The danger in waiting for Britton, the Cubs believed, was that the Orioles would “go dark” and stop communicating with them for several hours on Monday - a common experience for teams that engage with the O’s, according to rival executives.
The Cubs wanted no part of such uncertainty, sources said.
They knew Orioles owner Peter Angelos was a stickler for “clean” medicals, and feared a delay close to the deadline might leave them with nothing. Rather than take such a risk, they jumped on the proverbial “bird in the hand” - Wilson. If they instead had landed Britton, they might have acquired Avila anyway or made a smaller deal for a different catcher, sources said.
The Astros, too, were well aware of the Orioles’ reputation as an occasionally difficult negotiating partner. Luhnow, though, had completed three trades with Orioles counterpart Dan Duquette – including a deadline deal in 2013 in which the Astros acquired left-hander Josh Hader, outfielder L.J. Hoes and a 2014 competitive-balance pick for right-hander Bud Norris.
This time was different.
The Orioles went dark on both the Astros and Dodgers for several hours, sources said; the breakdown with the Astros occurred while the teams were in the medical review stage.
“Teams make agreements with contingencies which become deals when the contingencies are removed,” Duquette said. “It’s part of the process.”
Luhnow declined comment.
Teams assign their own standards to medicals, just as they assign their own values to players. The Orioles and Astros had a difference in opinion on the players in the package for Britton, sources said.
The Orioles believed that one of the Astros’ prospects had a legitimate medical problem and thought another might be questionable.
The Astros considered their players healthy, and concluded that Angelos and/or Duquette simply got cold feet – a belief that was reinforced to them when the Orioles passed on proposed substitutes for the players at the center of the disagreement.
The teams talked once more shortly before the deadline, but the Orioles asked for a package beyond Houston’s comfort level, sources said.
The Orioles, at times, indeed seemed torn.
Britton had come off his second trip to the DL on July 5, and the Orioles considered him to be sound, justifying a return comparable to the packages the Yankees received for Aroldis Chapman and Andrew Miller at last year’s deadline. In the Orioles’ view, Britton’s forearm strain was relatively mild - closer to his wrist, and not a precursor to a torn elbow ligament that would require Tommy John surgery.
Other clubs, meanwhile, suspected all along that the Orioles would not sell, knowing the team had done so only once since Angelos purchased the club in 1993.
Duquette was on record as saying that he wanted to improve his roster. In the end, that’s what he did, acquiring right-hander Jeremy Hellickson and shortstop Tim Beckham – and suddenly the Orioles are on a five-game winning streak, moving to within 2½ games of the second wild-card spot.
The Astros, after getting caught in the Orioles’ tangled web, chose not to make a run at the Padres’ Hand, the third quality left-handed reliever on the market, after Britton and Wilson. Those talks, sources said, disintegrated down over differences in Hand’s perceived value.
The Astros and other teams considered the Padres’ asking price as unreasonable, but one Padres official said the club did not ask for any players ranked among the game’s top 100 prospects - a claim disputed by executives from two of Hand's suitors after the initial publishing of this story.
As for the Astros’ list of untouchables, it varied depending upon the player they were trying to acquire, sources said.
The team discussed major-league pieces in certain trades, and considered only two prospects completely off-limits. One, presumably, was outfielder Derek Fisher, who currently is the team’s leadoff hitter and starting left fielder and viewed by the club as a critical piece going forward.
The bottom line is this:
In trading season, fans and players care little about reasons deals collapse; they care almost solely about results.
The Astros had three trades for relievers lined up on Monday. And the only one they completed was for Liriano, a pitcher who is not a guarantee to help.
Astros couldn't have picked a worse time to start slumping. The players are pissed we didn't make any moves, the injuries are piling up, and we're playing our worst baseball of the season. We need to fix this fast before it starts snowballing, and we lose all of our confidence and momentum.
Darvish looking nice tonight
Toronto coming to town was just what we needed 
It's always a good idea to bring AL pitchers to AAAA. Verlander would be doing the same thing.
Super Cheech
I Feel So Westcoast
Darvish :mjCryLAD:
god shamgod
Veteran
Willson Contreras 
this dude been on 
this dude been on
9th inning was insane in the Astros' game 
We needed this one.
We needed this one.
god shamgod
Veteran
Joe keeps waltzing him out there with a man on or in high leverage situations when edwards been struggling with command his last 4-5 outings.
Edwards isn't as good with men on he's damn near unhittable with no men on.Maddon managing like game 7 again
god shamgod
Veteran
happy wife happy life.
THASTUNNA
All Star
@THEREALBRAND It will be alright. Missing Springer and of course Correa is hurting us. Yuli and Bregman are hot. Of course Tuve being Tuve.
