606onit
Superstar
I didn't know that KAJ was carried to a ring 4 times. 
That nicca was weak as hell, joe
That nicca was weak as hell, joe
The Championship only counts if you win Finals MVP?
- Thread starter MalikX
- Start date
MalikX
Superstar
Kareem is considered top 3 all time though.
The logic that people use to keep Kobe out of their top 5 is that Shaq carried him for 3 of his Finals. But Kareem only won 2 mvps out of 6 Finals. Which is worse. So how can he be top 3 all time when he's even worse at living up to the standard y'all use to discredit Kobe. There's no logic being used here. You can't answer this without going Juelz.gif.
What these posters said
If Kyrie was to get finals MVP I wouldn't care as a Cavs fan but Bron haters would throw a celebration just like Curry haters threw a celebration when Iggy won it
MalikX
Superstar
As it rightfully should considering LeBron stans are the main ones trying to discredit people's championships.
So you admit that this thread is bullshyt then.
letti cook
Superstar
Kareem is the all time leading scoring
Kareem has A RECORD 6! MVP awards
Kareem was a champion and mvp prior to playing with Magic
Kareem is the standard for great big men
That's where his standing comes from
Kobe is a wing player..The consensus goat is a wing player...and he set the standard.
The finals mvp or the notion that Shaq carried Kobe...which is bullshyt by the way...is an argument lobbied against his quest for being better than JORDAN...it really is that simple....Lebron and Kobe are the only ones that get this standard because they are the heir apparents to Michael.
Kobe also doesnt get a lot of top 5 consideration because his full resume isnt up to par with the guys that occupy the 5...and yes finals mvp has something to do with that because he's a little thin on everything else.
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MalikX
Superstar
You can't set a standard and only apply it to players you want to hate on. You gotta apply that standard to everybody or else it's bullshyt. Using these nikkas logic, Tim Duncan is a top 3 player and is better than Kareem seeing as he has the stats and numbers and "led" his squad to 3 out of 5 Finals vs. Kareem only "leading" his to 2 out of 6.
letti cook
Superstar
come on breh, i laid it out for you clear ass shyt. You pressed.
GoddamnyamanProf
Countdown to Armageddon
lol casuals trying to boil complex matters down into a single yes or no question
doesnt work that way
doesnt work that way
If you win 2 FMVPs on 5 rings, you're a bum but if you win 2 FMVPs on 6 rings (which is worse), you're not a bum and considered top 3 all time? Explain that breakdown in logic
How does winning an extra title, with the same number of Finals MVPs, make you worse? You're saying that if Kareem had tanked in the 1st-round in 1988, that his legacy would have been better?
Some people say that Kobe's first three titles aren't as important because Shaq was the #1, but I've never met someone claim that Kobe would have been better off only winning 2 titles so that he'd have all the Finals MVPs to himself.
This is as bad as those claims that losing in the first round is better than losing in the Finals.
Now answer the question on Kareem Abdul
Jabbar.
He has 6 championships and 2 finals mvps. He's widely considered a top 3-4 player all time by all basketball heads. Using this same silly logic, he's only led his team to 2 rings. The other 4 times he was "carried" by whoever won MVP. Why is this logic not used on him? Explain the discrepancy. If you win 2 FMVPs on 5 rings, you're a bum but if you win 2 FMVPs on 6 rings (which is worse), you're not a bum and considered top 3 all time? Explain that breakdown in logic
That logic IS used with Kareem. His titles ARE worth less than if he was the undisputed best player on all six teams, and everyone knows this.
Kareem was MVP six times, won six titles, record 19-time all-star, is the all-time scoring leader. If Finals MVP didn't matter, it would be KAREEM, not Jordan, who would be listed as the indisputable GOAT.
Instead, people honestly argue whether Magic or Kareem was better. If being the best player on your championship team didn't matter, then Kareem would win that argument in a landslide and there wouldn't be a discussion.
These are the indisputable top-5 players
Jordan: 5 MVPs and 6 Finals MVPs
Kareem: 6 MVPs and 2 Finals MVPs
Magic: 3 MVPs and 3 Finals MVPs
Lebron: 4 MVPs and 3 Finals MVPs
The fifth is very arguable - might be Wilt or Hakeem or Duncan...maybe an outside argument for Shaq or Bird for some people.
Kareem clearly belongs in that top indisputable group even with only 2 Finals MVPs. None one else has 6 MVPs, no one else is the all-time scoring leader. If he retired at 38 so that Magic/Worthy weren't able to help carry him to his last two titles, would he still be ranked the same? Of course he would. Those last two titles are a very small part of his legacy, because he was clearly a sidekick by that point. His 6 MVPs and 2 Finals MVPs and four titles before then had already cemented his legacy.
If Finals MVP doesn't matter, then why doesn't everyone make a big deal about 3-time champion Wade (1 Finals MVP) and 4-time champion Tony Parker (1 Finals MVP) and 6-time champion Pippen (0 Finals MVP) and 8-time champion Havlicek (1 Finals MVP) and 10-time champion Sam Jones? Why don't their titles get them into the discussion with the others?
Whose logic? NO ONE I've ever met says that Finals MVPs are the sole measure with which to rank players.
Kareem has 6 MVP awards, Duncan has 2. Kareem is the all-time scoring leader, Duncan ain't even top-10. There are plenty of other reasons to rank Kareem ahead of Duncan - you don't look at Finals MVPs alone and claim that a difference of "1" therefore determines everything.
You made up some false argument in your head and then created an entire thread to yell at it.
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MalikX
Superstar
No replying to that fakkit. Anybody else, please.
MalikX
Superstar
lol casuals trying to boil complex matters down into a single yes or no question
doesnt work that way
Nobody's replying because their logic sounds stupid and they know they can't defend it. That's the problem with the Coliseum. The low intellect level posting that's allowed to thrive here compared to other sections of the forum is astounding. nikkas wanna use one set of standards to discredit players they don't like but, move goalposts and bend rules to say why those standards shouldn't be applied to players they know are considered "untouchable" in the basketball world. There's no logic in that. The same standards should be held across the board. Flawed arguments like that wouldn't be allowed in serious discussions in other areas of the forum but, bullshyt arguments like that are allowed to fester here.
Umm...umm....this guy got "carried" for some of his rings so they don't count but but but that same logic doesn't apply to other players who won rings without getting a Finals MVP trophy because we said so.
GoddamnyamanProf
Countdown to Armageddon
More like @The Dankster just ended your little thread with simple logic and now you refuse to reply because there's nothing you can say.
arguments like these were all created to defend the honor of
no matter what, nikkas will always point to 6 for 6 in the finals, 6 finals mvps...its the standard
so no matter how many rings and final appearances Lebron grabs they gonehim for that finals record and he bet not let Kyrie get an mvp
Kobe got
whoever comes from the throne gotta get pass themstandards. Is what it is
YOU MAKE NO SENSE.BRON WILL NEVER WIN 6 RINGS
AND HAS A SUB .500 FINALS RECORD.
MJ DOESNT NEED PROTECTION FROM THAT nikka.
Now to me MJ is the goat. But how many rings did he have compared to lebron at brons current age
BRON WILL NEVER WIN 6 RINGS
AND HAS A SUB .500 FINALS RECORD.
MJ DOESNT NEED PROTECTION FROM THAT nikka.
Who can say how many rings Bron will end up with