The devolution of the Western Left from Paris Commune to identity politics has been a disaster

[Broke Wave]

I think you're projecting here, because headline reading is exactly what you're doing here. Theres a gazillion headlines about the rights ascendancy in Europe and the West but the actual story is much more nuanced. Establishment parties on both sides are losing popularity and their smaller equivalents are gaining support on both sides. When its comes to elections with PR or multiple rounds, this favours the left because the plurality of people will not support their opposition on the right.

What exactly is your definition of the left here, because it seems extremely arbitrary?

Jeremy Corbyn is the leader of the official opposition in the UK, after a decade plus of the same neoliberals you guys rage about running the party.....and you claim this means destruction? You dont even realize this climate favours parties you purport to support.

Keep fishing for HL daps with the insults and dance around the substance of my argument.

You're obnoxious please keep your responses to me short because I can't promise you I'll read the whole thing given your reputation as a deflector. Anyway, there is a rising tide of populism. Things commonly associated with leftism are being co-opted by nationalist parties and movements such as Trumpism. Jeremy Corbyn's toughest opposition comes from within the Liberal party in the UK, so there is no point of bringing that up. The people themselves are supportive of left-wing politics and policies, but left wing parties have moved so far to the right that they are not even identified with popular left wing positions.

 

[thatrapsfan]

You're obnoxious please keep your responses to me short because I can't promise you I'll read the whole thing given your reputation as a deflector. Anyway, there is a rising tide of populism. Things commonly associated with leftism are being co-opted by nationalist parties and movements such as Trumpism. Jeremy Corbyn's toughest opposition comes from within the Liberal party in the UK, so there is no point of bringing that up. The people themselves are supportive of left-wing politics and policies, but left wing parties have moved so far to the right that they are not even identified with popular left wing positions.

Your projection is comedy. You call me an idiot, stupid etc. then claim I'm obnoxious? Keep playing for your internet crowd.

You claim I'm deflecting and dont event attempt to address evidence that many left-wing parties are politically viable in the West. In many instances ( Scotland, France, UK, Germany) establishment parties have leaders that've moved them further to the left. Smaller left-leaning parties have gained support, at expense of larger counterparts in other places. The decline of conventional politics doesn't simply create an opening for the right. Its opened the door for left-wing parties and candidates, that didnt even exist before.

Address the argument above, without deflecting or fishing for daps.

Funniest thing about this is @FAH1223 is actually a breh Im cool with and he knows who I am. I was simply ribbing him on a point of disagreement and you came in here guns blazing for daps. Grow up

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

"We would prefer not to have racist policies that disproportionately effec...."

"THEY USING THE IDENTITY POLITIC I READ ABOUT ON FOURCHAN! PRIVATIZE THE SCHOOLS AND LOWER TAXES FOR BILLIONAIRES!!!!"

 

[Broke Wave]

Your projection is comedy. You call me an idiot, stupid etc. then claim I'm obnoxious? Keep playing for your internet crowd.

You claim I'm deflecting and dont event attempt to address evidence that many left-wing parties are politically viable in the West. In many instances ( Scotland, France, UK, Germany) establishment parties have leaders that've moved them further to the left. Smaller left-leaning parties have gained support, at expense of larger counterparts in other places. The decline of conventional politics doesn't simply create an opening for the right. Its opened the door for left-wing parties and candidates, that didnt even exist before.

Address the argument above, without deflecting or fishing for daps.

Funniest thing about this is @FAH1223 is actually a breh Im cool with and he knows who I am. I was simply ribbing him on a point of disagreement and you came in here guns blazing for daps. Grow up

And once again you're not even staying on topic. The whole reason I quoted you was because you said "Bernie bros keep crying about this narrative that the right is taking over, I'll quote this when left leaning parties win in Europe" when you know that is un true. "left leaning" parties that are actually right wing false choice parties prove your point? I'm not feeding this nonsense. And you are in fact an idiot.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

THE BIG LIE IS THAT THE WEST NEVER UTILIZED IDENTITY POLITICS PRIOR TO THE CIVIL RIGHTS/ANTI-RACIST MOVEMENTS IN THE POST-WORLD WAR ERA

 

[thatrapsfan]

And once again you're not even staying on topic. The whole reason I quoted you was because you said "Bernie bros keep crying about this narrative that the right is taking over, I'll quote this when left leaning parties win in Europe" when you know that is un true. "left leaning" parties that are actually right wing false choice parties prove your point? I'm not feeding this nonsense. And you are in fact an idiot.

So Germany's left coalition is a party in right garb? They actually hold many plaform positions to the left of Bernie. Same for Hamon if they manages to pull off a deal with Mélenchon. He's way further to the left than any party that's been in power for decades in Western Europe.

Beneath your condescension and your pandering for daps, you actually have little argument and even less insight.

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

THE BIG LIE IS THAT THE WEST NEVER UTILIZED IDENTITY POLITICS PRIOR TO THE CIVIL RIGHTS/ANTI-RACIST MOVEMENTS IN THE POST-WORLD WAR ERA

"Our white god, White Jesus, took this land from the Indians and gave it to us."

"I'm not entirely sure I agree with th..."

"IDENTITY POLITICS! SJW'S! LIBRULS ARE THE REAL RACISTS!!!!!!!"

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

"Our white god, White Jesus, took this land from the Indians and gave it to us."

"I'm not entirely sure I agree with th..."

"IDENTITY POLITICS! SJW'S! LIBRULS ARE THE REAL RACISTS!!!!!!!"

"You don't understand. We need to import these Muslim slaves from Africa. We need to civilize them."




400 years later
"Muslims are barbarous! We need to stop them from coming here until we know what's going on!"

 

[Broke Wave]

So Germany's left coalition is a party in right garb? They actually hold many plaform positions to the left of Bernie. Same for Hamon if they manages to pull off a deal with Mélenchon. He's way further to the left than any party that's been in power for decades in Western Europe.

Beneath your condescension and your pandering for daps, you actually have little argument and even less insight.

Wow your predictions on future elections are so insightful man! It's almost like, you're basing your arguments on what may come to pass in future elections based on early poll numbers (Hillary says hi) and we're basing our arguments on what has come to pass in the last dozen or so elections in major countries

 

[thatrapsfan]

Wow your predictions on future elections are so insightful man! It's almost like, you're basing your arguments on what may come to pass in future elections based on early poll numbers (Hillary says hi) and we're basing our arguments on what has come to pass in the last dozen or so elections in major countries

Nice try at the bait and switch. Stick on the topic. You just claimed this:

The whole reason I quoted you was because you said "Bernie bros keep crying about this narrative that the right is taking over, I'll quote this when left leaning parties win in Europe" when you know that is un true. "left leaning" parties that are actually right wing false choice parties prove your point?

Once presented with fact these parties are to the left of Bernie on many core issues, you tried to change the subject to poll inaccuracy. Are they right wing parties or are you arguing they dont have a chance? Make up your mind.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

 

[DEAD7]

 

[Broke Wave]

Nice try at the bait and switch. Stick on the topic. You just claimed this:

The whole reason I quoted you was because you said "Bernie bros keep crying about this narrative that the right is taking over, I'll quote this when left leaning parties win in Europe" when you know that is un true. "left leaning" parties that are actually right wing false choice parties prove your point?

Once presented with fact these parties are to the left of Bernie on many core issues, you tried to change the subject to poll inaccuracy. Are they right wing parties or are you arguing they dont have a chance? Make up your mind.

For one , the left leaning parties are actually false choice right wing parties. You're the one who brought up the Corbyn thing when we both know that is exactly the case. As far as one of the parties being to the left of Bernie, a true left party should be to the left of Bernie. There is still a rising tide of right wing politics regardless of a few actual left wing parties or politicians being the outliers. Bernie was gaining momentum and almost won, if he had beaten Trump, the point still rings true given the electoral results of the last 8 or so years.

 

[David_TheMan]

Did we ever?

Yeah, pre-1930s before the gop took over and destroyed the Democratic party

 

[thatrapsfan]

For one , the left leaning parties are actually false choice right wing parties. You're the one who brought up the Corbyn thing when we both know that is exactly the case. As far as one of the parties being to the left of Bernie, a true left party should be to the left of Bernie. There is still a rising tide of right wing politics regardless of a few actual left wing parties or politicians being the outliers. Bernie was gaining momentum and almost won, if he had beaten Trump, the point still rings true given the electoral results of the last 8 or so years.

This has been an interesting journey. We couldve had a discussion if you weren't so desperate for daps and e-rep.

From the start, my argument was that the current environment opens the door for both sides of the spectrum, not simply the right. Populism isnt simply a right-wing phenomeon. Hell if you believe Bernie wouldve fared better against Trump, doesnt that concede that its not simply a rising right tide?

Upcoming elections in Western Europe further support the point, that left ideas/parties remain viable and that its not simply a right phenomenon. Instead of engaging this argument you've gone in circles. Its been fun.