The economists are right: Rent control is bad

DEAD7

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The economists are right: Rent control is bad

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...9-a688-303693fb4b0b_story.html?outputType=amp


RENT CONTROL is back. Economists have long criticized government price controls on apartments, a concept that had its first moment in the 1920s and that some cities reintroduced in a modified form in the 1970s. Now, decades later, California and Oregon are moving forward with statewide rent-control laws. Meanwhile, presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has made a national rent-control standard the centerpiece of his sprawling new housing plan.

The economists are right, and the populists are wrong. Rent-control laws can be good for some privileged beneficiaries, who are often not the people who really need help. But they are bad for many others.

The California law would cap the rise in rents statewide to inflation plus 5 percent annually. Oregon would set the cap at inflation plus 7 percent. Mr. Sanders would restrict rent increases nationally to 3 percent or 1.5 times inflation, whichever is greater. To many struggling to afford housing in super-expensive parts of New York, San Francisco or the District, these plans no doubt sound great. Yet these cities already have rent-stabilization policies, and they have not worked.

For example, a March study from a group of Stanford University researchers shows that San Francisco’s rent-stabilization efforts failed. It’s true that the policy kept some residents’ rents lower. But landlords responded by converting their buildings into condos they could sell or business properties they could lease without rent-control restrictions — or by demolishing their old buildings and replacing them with new ones that did not qualify for rent stabilization. Effects such as these drove down the supply of rental housing and, therefore, drove up rents across the city — by 5.1 percent.

These costs fell on those seeking to move into San Francisco or between apartments within the city. The city’s housing tended to cater more to high-income condo-buyers or renters willing to pay top dollar for apartments in brand-new buildings. “It appears rent control has actually contributed to the gentrification of San Francisco, the exact opposite of the policy’s intended goal,” the researchers concluded.

Research also indicates that landlords have less incentive to maintain their properties in a rent-controlled environment. Governments can impose maintenance requirements on landlords — but they are tough to enforce. Depending on how the policy is designed, stiff rent-control policies with few exceptions could also discourage investors from building new homes, which would also constrain rental unit supply. And since rent-stabilization policies often tend to discourage people from moving, they harm worker mobility and the economic dynamism associated with it.

In the long run, the key to making housing more affordable is to build more homes. In desirable urban environments, that means more construction and more density than municipal policy — not to mention benighted NIMBY activism — often allows, which would also require better walking, biking and public transportation options in dense city centers. (To his credit, Mr. Sanders also embraces this policy.) This approach is not as bumper-sticker-ready as rent control. But it would be far more effective.
 

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"In the long run, the key to making housing more affordable is to build more homes. "

I disagree. Unless you somehow manage to vastly outpace the market (which looks quite unlikely), then building more homes will not keep you very far ahead of speculators, flippers, and the such, who will continue to buy low, hold the properties unavailable to the people who really need them, sell high, and then buy low in the next inevitable crash.

The issue is that the people who NEED affordable housing do not have excess money just sitting around to buy up said housing when it becomes available. In fact, they are the ones least likely to have money during economic downturns and market crashes, which is when those houses are available cheap. Instead developers, speculators, house-flippers, people buying 2nd and 3rd homes, they are the ones who keep snatching up that shyt and can afford to sit on it until it becomes profitable. Right now many cities are already at 30-40% of homes being owned by people who don't live in them. As the wealth gap continues to increase and wages continue to stagnate, I expect that number to climb to 50% at least. All building more homes will do is make that number climb faster.

Rent controls aren't the solution either. Home ownership is the solution.
 

OfTheCross

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I don't think the solution is to build more in those "desirable places".

There's already plenty of housing stock. The key is to make other places desirable too.

In Europe and even DR...you can get most of everything you need no matter what neighborhood in the city you're in.

There's a grocer, a mechanic, a bank, a shopping plaza, etc.

If you put those amenities in less desirable locations with housing stock, they'll soon be occupied
 

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I don't think the solution is to build more in those "desirable places".

There's already plenty of housing stock. The key is to make other places desirable too.

In Europe and even DR...you can get most of everything you need no matter what neighborhood in the city you're in.

There's a grocer, a mechanic, a bank, a shopping plaza, etc.

If you put those amenities in less desirable locations with housing stock, they'll soon be occupied

Yep. The USA spent the last 100 years completely fukking over rural people in favor of corporations and big business and is now suffering the consequences. Unfortunately, it's going to take a lot of work to make a lot of those rural spots and small towns liveable again.
 

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"In the long run, the key to making housing more affordable is to build more homes. "

I disagree. Unless you somehow manage to vastly outpace the market (which looks quite unlikely), then building more homes will not keep you very far ahead of speculators, flippers, and the such, who will continue to buy low, hold the properties unavailable to the people who really need them, sell high, and then buy low in the next inevitable crash.

The issue is that the people who NEED affordable housing do not have excess money just sitting around to buy up said housing when it becomes available. In fact, they are the ones least likely to have money during economic downturns and market crashes, which is when those houses are available cheap. Instead developers, speculators, house-flippers, people buying 2nd and 3rd homes, they are the ones who keep snatching up that shyt and can afford to sit on it until it becomes profitable. Right now many cities are already at 30-40% of homes being owned by people who don't live in them. As the wealth gap continues to increase and wages continue to stagnate, I expect that number to climb to 50% at least. All building more homes will do is make that number climb faster.

Rent controls aren't the solution either. Home ownership is the solution.
You're wrong on this bruh.

Thats why more places are doing zoning reform.

If you have to control incentives, then you gotta allow people to do what they naturally wanna do: be close to amenities and services. You get that with density and you get that by having more housing stock.

Don't forget, the reason theres so many single family homes is BECAUSE LAWS RESTRICT PEOPLE TO ONLY BUILD SINGLE FAMILY HOMES...

Do you not think developers wouldn't want to build more housing?

The telling conservative backlash to a Virginia zoning reform proposal, explained
 

Json

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Yep. The USA spent the last 100 years completely fukking over rural people in favor of corporations and big business and is now suffering the consequences. Unfortunately, it's going to take a lot of work to make a lot of those rural spots and small towns liveable again.
Nah. That mindset is true in DR and Europe.

But in America the appeal of rural areas was to not see anyone and have your own land to do whatever. They don’t want cul-de-sac living with 6 neighbors next to each other and a neighborhood Wal-Mart.

The problem is that homeownership is no longer generational in America. Your kids are more likely to be across the country or a larger city nearby.

The industries that kept people near their parents/hometown don’t want to be there.
 

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You're wrong on this bruh.

Thats why more places are doing zoning reform.

If you have to control incentives, then you gotta allow people to do what they naturally wanna do: be close to amenities and services. You get that with density and you get that by having more housing stock.
Not sure which part you're claiming I'm "wrong" on.

I disagree that people naturally want density though - there are a million things that are less liveable about density - crime is higher, traffic is worse, trust of others goes down, air quality is worse, water quality is often worse, diseases travel faster, its much more difficult to spend time in nature, etc. There are tons of people who would rather live on their own land, would rather live closer to at least a few trees, would rather live in a community where they know and trust the people they see every day - but they just can't afford to live there or the government has failed to maintain adequate structural support to live there. While at the same time government is IMMENSELY subsidizing the agribusiness and suburbs that have replaced them on either side (few people know that suburbs are vastly inefficient and only survive by draining resources from other areas or through a pyramid scheme-like constant growth model).

The rural-to-urban transition has many factors behind it, but several of those factors were explicitly supported by the government, and we continue to reap the negative consequences.



Nah. That mindset is true in DR and Europe.

But in America the appeal of rural areas was to not see anyone and have your own land to do whatever. They don’t want cul-de-sac living with 6 neighbors next to each other and a neighborhood Wal-Mart.

The problem is that homeownership is no longer generational in America. Your kids are more likely to be across the country or a larger city nearby.

The industries that kept people near their parents/hometown don’t want to be there.
I'm not sure that you've really understood what has happened to rural communities in the USA. The agribusiness industry pretty much drove 90% of all farmers out of business though a mix of techniques many of which were shady as fukk. If 100 farmers in an area lose their land and are replaced by 2 agribusiness corporations, then 1000 people whose businesses supported those farmers and were supported by them also go out of business, as the agribusiness spots have their own supply chains from afar and don't keep on as much yearround labor. Now the local community has lost 1000+ people that were at the heart of the community identity, and from there it only continues to die.

You're way underestimating the amount of developed land that already exists in America. Every family in the USA could live in a single-family home and we wouldn't need to cut down a single forest or creating any new urban-like densitiy. Simply refilling areas that have already been abandoned and repurposing land that has already gone to seed would be enough.

You're also exaggerating what "rural" means. Lots of rural folk live in real towns with 5-10 thousand residents, they live in real neighborhoods where the kids can play ball in the driveways with the neighbor kids, it ain't all backwoods shyt like fukking Deliverance lol.
 

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Not sure which part you're claiming I'm "wrong" on.

I disagree that people naturally want density though - there are a million things that are less liveable about density - crime is higher, traffic is worse, trust of others goes down, air quality is worse, water quality is often worse, diseases travel faster, its much more difficult to spend time in nature, etc. There are tons of people who would rather live on their own land, would rather live closer to at least a few trees, would rather live in a community where they know and trust the people they see every day - but they just can't afford to live there or the government has failed to provide adequate support to live there. While at the same time government is IMMENSELY subsidizing the agribusiness and suburbs that have replaced them on either side (few people know that suburbs are vastly inefficient and only survive by draining resources from other areas or through a pyramid scheme-like constant growth model).

The rural-to-urban transition has many factors behind it, but several of those factors were explicitly supported by the government, and we continue to reap the negative consequences.

Still not accurate.

Crime would change proportional to the size of the community. For instance, crime in NYC has gone down despite the city expanding.

Traffic would only be affected by greater access to public transit and infrastructure which only comes with greater density

Air quality? Depends on the regulations, again look at the smog in major cities with and without public transit. LA vs CHI/NYC

Theres GOT to be more housing stock. Look at ATL and Houston. Houston has more housing stock because theres less regulation on zoning. ATL is trying to get there but has more regulations on zoning :francis:
 

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Still not accurate.

Crime would change proportional to the size of the community. For instance, crime in NYC has gone down despite the city expanding.
That's not true. While there are many other factors, in general crime is higher in urban areas than in rural because high population density means there are far more interactions with strangers on a daily basis. In a rural community you know most of the people you meet on the street, in an urban community you don't know the vast majority of them. Also, in an urban community you simply run into a lot more people on a daily basis so there are that many more chances for shyt to go down. So while certain crimes are the same anywhere (I doubt domestic violence or date rape changes much), stranger crimes such as muggings, burglaries, stranger murder and rape, violent assault where the individuals were previously unknown, road rage, etc. all go up in the city.

Your NYC example is terrible - you have to know that's a logical fallacy.



Traffic would only be affected by greater access to public transit and infrastructure which only comes with greater density

Air quality? Depends on the regulations, again look at the smog in major cities with and without public transit. LA vs CHI/NYC

Theres GOT to be more housing stock. Look at ATL and Houston. Houston has more housing stock because theres less regulation on zoning. ATL is trying to get there but has more regulations on zoning :francis:
Urban areas generally have more traffic and worse air quality than rural areas (except in cases where shytty urban traffic/airs spills over into the rural area). That's not even debatable.

You fit the stereotype of a typical city liberal way too much. If you're not even going to address how we've screwed up rural communities and just want to push this fantasy urban utopia, then we don't have much to talk about. There are numerous ways in which the rural-to-urban transition has hurt our society, slumlords living off of economic rents and massive housing stock continuously owned and flipped by absentee landlords is only part of the problem

Way to use Houston as your positive example. Houston has some of the worst air quality AND among the worst traffic in America.
 

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That's not true. While there are many other factors, in general crime is higher in urban areas than in rural because high population density means there are far more interactions with strangers on a daily basis. In a rural community you know most of the people you meet on the street, in an urban community you don't know the vast majority of them. Also, in an urban community you simply run into a lot more people on a daily basis so there are that many more chances for shyt to go down. So while certain crimes are the same anywhere (I doubt domestic violence or date rape changes much), stranger crimes such as muggings, burglaries, stranger murder and rape, violent assault where the individuals were previously unknown, road rage, etc. all go up in the city.

Your NYC example is terrible - you have to know that's a logical fallacy.




Urban areas generally have more traffic and worse air quality than rural areas (except in cases where shytty urban traffic/airs spills over into the rural area). That's not even debatable.

You fit the stereotype of a typical city liberal way too much. If you're not even going to address how we've screwed up rural communities and just want to push this fantasy urban utopia, then we don't have much to talk about. There are numerous ways in which the rural-to-urban transition has hurt our society, slumlords living off of economic rents and massive housing stock continuously owned and flipped by absentee landlords is only part of the problem

Way to use Houston as your positive example. Houston has some of the worst air quality AND among the worst traffic in America.
Houston has no public transit.

I'm not advocating for perfect externalities, I'm talking about the greatest good.

This thread is about housing, not air pollution
 

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The article seems miss the mark, considering it admits that "rent-control" policies aren't overarching to all forms of housing and there are plenty (intentional) loopholes to illustrate it's failure. So "rent-control" really isn't being applied universally.

The only thing I do agree with is that housing issues is very layered and zoning, existing housing density, location all contribute to housing costs and "Rent-Control" as a sole policy solution won't solve that. And I think especially in places like NYC, San fran, as long as demand is extremely high, housing costs is going to be an uphill battle. :yeshrug:
 

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I'm not sure that you've really understood what has happened to rural communities in the USA. The agribusiness industry pretty much drove 90% of all farmers out of business though a mix of techniques many of which were shady as fukk. If 100 farmers in an area lose their land and are replaced by 2 agribusiness corporations, then 1000 people whose businesses supported those farmers and were supported by them also go out of business, as the agribusiness spots have their own supply chains from afar and don't keep on as much yearround labor. Now the local community has lost 1000+ people that were at the heart of the community identity, and from there it only continues to die.

You're way underestimating the amount of developed land that already exists in America. Every family in the USA could live in a single-family home and we wouldn't need to cut down a single forest or creating any new urban-like densitiy. Simply refilling areas that have already been abandoned and repurposing land that has already gone to seed would be enough.

You're also exaggerating what "rural" means. Lots of rural folk live in real towns with 5-10 thousand residents, they live in real neighborhoods where the kids can play ball in the driveways with the neighbor kids, it ain't all backwoods shyt like fukking Deliverance lol.

I grew up in a town of 20,000 in Mississippi. All along the roads to Jackson were abandoned oil derricks that still had oil in the ground but was cheaper to get it from Saudi Arabia. Mississippi was once the largest exporter of catfish until China came along.

I know exactly what I'm talking about.

I'm not advocating for building more land or developing more housing. I'm saying, We can't just refill those old lands cause there isn't the population to support it. You can't go from people having an average of 4 kids in the 50s to 1 or 2 but think we still need to fill as much land as we used to even with immigration.

Unless you want Wal-Mart to pay 20 an hr, the businesses that would be needed to anchor those outlier communities won't be there to sustain it.

It's not just a matter putting people in homes. If it were, we have enough abandoned home to fix up and house every single homeless person in America.

You're not taking into account what it actually requires to sustain a community that people will stay in. Amenities, schooling, etc.
 

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The places that historically thrived and “developed” faster were dense areas, even going back to ancient times. Not sure why were arguing against density, it’s technological advancements that made rural living sustainable later on. Furthermore all that urban sprawl we once advocated for actually does more damage to the environment.

Some level of rent control is necessary when we’re talking large scale developments, but unilaterally applying it to small landlords makes it untenable and ends up taking a lot of low-mid level housing stock of the market. People end up doing condo conversions or selling to institutional investors who then have the money and resources to do some of the things mentioned in the article such as straight up rebuilding the building therefore removing rent caps and also adding more luxury stock to the market.

My stance has always been that the government needs to look into subsiding building costs and, at least out here, streamlining the planning, zoning, and permit process that can take YEARS. between the labor shortage of construction workers, costs of raw materials, land costs, and permit/zoning fees, it costs something like $500k per housing unit to build in Oakland...this is why rents/homes for sale cost so much
 
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