I hear what you're saying, but Stress has zero standouts. I can't name a single song off that album that I've heard played ANYWHERE. "Thirteen" is an alright song but nothing I'd say that's pinnacle shyt. A couple of underground nerds mention that album here and there but heads don't listen to that shyt.
Really?
right. That's why replay value is #1 to me by far.
Neither are classics or even close. In fact, it's arguable if they're even good albums to begin with. In the same way a couple of underground heads force "Stress" is the same sorta way insecure Southern listeners force "Trap Muzik".
Truth
) about how he's a better emcee.
Nas is one of the most sampled rappers in hip hop history, bruh. There's a gazillion songs, particularly in that 1994 - 1998 stretch, that have Illmatic samples in the shyt. Most famously, Jigga.
First off,salute OP for the well thought out video
But for all the reasons you named,thats why I can't support this. I highly believe OP chose to ignore just how important everything you said about impact is,just so he could name his criteria the "Illmatic Rule"
You can't simply ignore impact in Real Time. Don't expect me to put an album like Reasonable Doubt or Illmatic in the same stratosphere with something like a Amerikkas Most or Death Certificate.Both classics?Yes?But who Jay and Nas became later greatly increased the legacy of those albums. In good conscience I can't hold them in the same regard as something that had an incredible impact in real time nationally/globally ,completely shifted the culture AND was considered a classic out of the gate.
I like this as criteria for a classic,but we still need classifications for classics,some should be held in higher esteem than others. Plus I don't know if as many people would call Illmatic the classic of all classics like you suggest. That would even be a blashemous suggestion in certain corners of the earth.
It would be more offensive than it would be welcomed,let me just put it that way. I only say this to you as you are a foreigner.
fukk no, 2Pac is the most poetic, the most relevant and the most insightful emcee I've ever heard. Everything he said resonates with me. 2Pac [in his career whilst alive] never picked a shyt beat unlike Nas has even his unreleased shyt is amazing. Nas was just copying Rakim you can't say the same for Mr. Troublesomethat's what you're judging Nas on? Basically you're saying that because middle America didn't get Illmatic at all, therefore Illmatic can't be as good as people say it is?
Illmatic is rawer at its core than any Snoop, Pac or Big album. Hard beats, vocal scratches as choruses referencing other rappers...these shyts aren't radio friendly. Never have been.
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Exactly the point I was trying to put forth but you did it more articulately.First off,salute OP for the well thought out video
But for all the reasons you named,thats why I can't support this. I highly believe OP chose to ignore just how important everything you said about impact is,just so he could name his criteria the "Illmatic Rule"
You can't simply ignore impact in Real Time. Don't expect me to put an album like Reasonable Doubt or Illmatic in the same stratosphere with something like a Amerikkas Most or Death Certificate.Both classics?Yes?But who Jay and Nas became later greatly increased the legacy of those albums. In good conscience I can't hold them in the same regard as something that had an incredible impact in real time nationally/globally ,completely shifted the culture AND was considered a classic out of the gate.
I like this as criteria for a classic,but we still need classifications for classics,some should be held in higher esteem than others. Plus I don't know if as many people would call Illmatic the classic of all classics like you suggest. That would even be a blashemous suggestion in certain corners of the earth.
It would be more offensive than it would be welcomed,let me just put it that way. I only say this to you as you are a foreigner.
Eh. Shouldn't your criteria scale for double albums? I mean, you're saying an album with 30 tracks is classic even if 20 are trash and 10 are dope/replayable. That means two thirds of the album is bad yet you're not only calling it a good album, you're calling it classic? What sense does that make on any level?
Overall the replayability argument is interesting though. I'll add it to my list of criteria for a classic. But I see it moreso as a sliding scaling. Some albums might have more of one criteria than another, but the total end tally must reach a certain level for me to consider it classic.
-Quality of music (nearly perfect to perfect tracklist)
There has to be a differentiation between an album that is good or great, and an album that is classic. One of the biggest problems today is that a really good album comes out and people automatically want to hail it a classic. That shouldn't be how this works. If you're album has a few middling or downright bad tracks, it's probably not classic.
-Impact on hip hop or music in general
Classic jazz albums are largely based around this. How did your album influence the genre, or music? This doesn't have to involve sales or success btw. Illmatic didn't sell well initially but it's impact is undeniable. Likewise there are underground albums that spawned entire subgenres or movements without selling much, such as Operation Doomsday.
-Replayability/standing test of time
Did your album simply spur a fad, or does it still have long lasting impact? Can I play it 5, 10, 15, 20 years after release?
-Critical acclaim
Perhaps on the lower side of my scale but still noteworthy to mention. How was your album received? Was it instantly hailed amazing/classic, or did it receive mixed reviews initially but slowly garner more attention as time passed and the trend of music became clear? Think about movies for a second. When It's A Wonderful Life came out it was trashed by many critics, it bombed in the theater, some people called it pro-communism or socialism. Yet for the last few decades it's been considered an undeniable classic film. Times change, as does our perspective and appreciation of art.
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You can scale things how you want but I feel like this is one of the most fair ways to do it, and helps include albums you might not like that had impact on the genre. I wasn't a fan of 808s And Heartbreaks but it's influence on modern urban music is dominant. Likewise there are Three Six Mafia albums I might call meh or ok that had dominant influence over how rap music sounds today.
