The "Kobe was a sidekick" argument needs to stop

[Sccit]

Memphis won??

So Marc gasol, Zachary Randolph > two rings

Negged on dumbassmanship alone

KOBE WOULDA WON 4 RINGS WITH MARC GASOL AND ZACH RANDOLPH, IDIOT .. AND TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, YES MARC GASOL, ZACH RANDOLPH, JAVARIS CRITTENTON, KWAME BROWN, AARON MCKIE, AND TWO 1ST ROUND PICKS > PAU .. ONLY A RETARD LIKE URSELF WOULD ARGUE OTHERWISE AND EVEN NEG OVER THAT LIKE THE LIL BIITCH U ARE

 

[KingMalik]

2000 playoffs is the only year u can get away with calling Kobe a sidekick after that they were 1A and 1B just cuz somone is the best player on the team doesn't make the other player a sidekick next year when durants back I would never call Westbrook a sidekick

According to these nikkas Westbrook's a sidekick, Wade's a sidekick, etc.

 

[Consumed]

Since when did scoring become the whole game? You must hate Bill Russell...dude didn't score nearly enough for you. Magic Johnson was just a sidekick to Kareem when Kareem was the primary scorer, right? Bill Walton and Isaiah Thomas couldn't have been their teams' best player either as long as someone else was the main scoring option, huh. And Tim Duncan...talk about overrated, only taking 17 shots/game in all those championship years...what kind of real star does that?


Here's a test:

22/9/6 with 3 steals/game
21/5/4 with 2 steals/game
20/9/7 with 2 steals/game
20/7/6 with 2 steals/game
19/7/4 with 2 steals/game
17/9/6 with 3 steals/game
17/7/5 with 2 steals/game

Without cheating, which ones of those are Pippen's "sidekick" playoff stats, and which one is Kobe's "enormous role" playoff stat?

I actually do consider Bill Russell to be an overrated peak player. Its not because he didn't score enough as ppg totals are not always indicative of actual scoring ability, but because Russell had very little skill as an individual scorer. It was a pretty clear weakness in his game that wasn't exploited back then but probably would in some fashion now. Whenever someone says they'd take him to start a franchise over Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan I roll my eyes. Don't think he was better than any of them but his legacy is flawless so I understand why people have him so highly on all time lists.

No scoring is not the end all be all in player evaluation, but it does play an enormous factor in determining a players offensive value. The goal of offense itself is to put the ball into the basket in the most efficient manner possible. If you have a guy that can drop 30 on good efficiency that has the ball handling/playmaking skills to run or have an offense run through them then clearly they will be of extreme value. Defense is important as well of course, but in this discussion I've only been speaking of offensive responsibilities. So we're just comparing Kobe to Pippen offensively and there is no sane comparison to be made. Pippen was clearly not a strong individual scorer and struggled with consistency because it wasn't his strength as a player. I think anyone who watched him closely could observe this. Even with Jordan was in retirement and he was relied upon more as a primary option he wasn't able to provide that type of elite production, that just wasn't the player that he was. He was more suited to being the secondary option because he wasn't a transcendent scorer but excelled as a playmaker. You take that In comparison to someone of Kobe's stature who was supremely skilled in 1on1 situations and there's a clear distinction between the two

No idea why you brought up Magic he was a gifted scorer who was very efficient and would have averaged more ppg if more assertive. Duncan is one of the best post players of this generation and has one of the most dominant offensive playoff campaigns this league has ever seen in his 2003 season. Not sure why he's in this discussion right now, shooting 20 times a game (Which he did in the 2002 PS actually) isn't a prerequisite for anything I just used it to highlight how high Kobe's offensive responsibility was in comparison to another player on his team. '96 Penny Hardaway didn't shoot a ton but that man is one of the most skilled ballers I've ever seen in my life. That flawless footwork in the post, strong mid range game, maybe the best slasher in the league not named Jordan and showtime esque playmaking flair made him such a force offensively. He didn't get to fully show his production ceiling playing next to Shaq but who cares, I recognize his skill and at the end of the day its more important that just numbers & stats. I haven't been laying down many stats in these discussions at all actually, just talking basketball as the game that I know it & describing the games of these players with detail.

Not going to engage in a guessing game here but you can't be serious if you think Pip was remotely as good offensively as Kobe or that he had a similar role by comparison in the Bulls offense

 

[Roland Coltrane]

Two questions....

Why didn't Shaq continue to dominate the league and win rings without Kobe?

And why didn't Shaq win with Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel?

 

[Whitty Hutton]

The worst part about this argument is the ignoring of the Phil Jackson factor in Kobe n Shaq's success. Why didn't Shaq win a championship until Kobe? Largely because Brian Hill and Del Harris were

 

[The Goodz]

KOBE WOULDA WON 4 RINGS WITH MARC GASOL AND ZACH RANDOLPH, IDIOT .. AND TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, YES MARC GASOL, ZACH RANDOLPH, JAVARIS CRITTENTON, KWAME BROWN, AARON MCKIE, AND TWO 1ST ROUND PICKS > PAU .. ONLY A RETARD LIKE URSELF WOULD ARGUE OTHERWISE AND EVEN NEG OVER THAT LIKE THE LIL BIITCH U ARE

No woulda coulda shoulda can get you out of this one. Like I said the lakers came out on top by far by having two titles because of the trade while, Memphis has gotten what now???

 

[JYoung24]

Kobe was a role player for the 2000 title. He was second option for the other two. SECOND option.

Kobe wasnt never a role player in any finals horry fisher fox were role players

 

[JYoung24]

Maybe so. Kobe would have been a sidekick to Duncan too.

No he wouldn't have

 

[The Goodz]

You want to give Shaq all the credit. You want Shaq to be the HNIC of the Lakers. Fine. Then that fat muthafukka should have won rings with Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel.....average shooting guards no one would have thought twice about but,

You mean during the MJ era

Nobody was getting rings when MJ was playing, so that argument is so wrong to begin with.

 

[JYoung24]

Just once in 5 laker title runs he was their best player

Stop trolling

 

[The Goodz]

Kobe wasnt never a role player in any finals horry fisher fox were role players

i beg to differ, Reggie and jalen rose were putting that work on him all series. Luckily Shaq was there to save 'ole Robin

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Kobe wasnt never a role player in any finals horry fisher fox were role players

Then whose stat line is whose? Glen Rice, Kobe, Shaq, Horry, and Harper are all represented.

222 points,100 rebounds, 14 assists, 6 steals, 16 blocks
69 points, 15 rebounds, 10 assists, 5 steals, 1 block
65 points, 29 rebounds, 20 assists, 8 steals, 1 block
55 points, 31 rebounds, 17 assists, 5 steals, 6 blocks
78 points, 23 rebounds, 21 assists, 5 steals, 7 blocks


And don't bring some other series or other year into play. Kobestans claim all 5 rings, so you to defend this "ring claim" on it's own merits regardless of what happened other years.

And to answer your other stupid assertion, no, I don't consider Westbrook or any of those other guys a sidekick. Sure, some teams have a leader, and Kobe openly said that the Lakers were Shaq's team. But being the team leader doesn't relegate others to "sidekick" status. That's why the ring-counting is stupid - multiple players and the coach all contribute to a team winning a ring, so rings are never an individual accomplishment, just a part of each player's legacy. I point out that falsehood by pointing out the hypocrisy in Kobestans attributing titles to Kobe that were clearly a team accomplishment, usually with Kobe not being the #1 factor, yet those same Kobestans fail to attribute titles to significant contributors on other teams.

 

[ALonelyDad]

I just read Mario Chalmers and Kobe in the same sentence..

 

[JYoung24]

Shaq was saying that shyt as he was getting a Finals MVP trophy He always says wild shyt to keep the ante high...what's the matter with you?

He continued to say it as the years went on smh

 

[JYoung24]

Also, Shaq has gassed up every great perimeter player he has played with publicly. Again, not a slight to Kobe, but look at his quotes about Wade/Penny etc over time. If the assumption is that his ego was too high (reasonable POV)..and combine that with his quotes about his own game..you can't really take Shaq's quotes about his star teammates as a true concession that they were better or more important than him.

He never called penny or wade the best player in the league I actually remember him still calling Kobe the best while he was playing with wade