Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.

reservoirdogs

Superstar
Joined
Jun 1, 2016
Messages
12,817
Reputation
1,040
Daps
25,825
I don't have a problem with them having the fight in Atlanta, it's just knowing Arum's track record it's more along the lines of 'These ******s will gake whatever bullshyt I throw at them and they're gonna like it or else fukk em!!!' And then when nobody buys the bullshyt he will blame everyonr except the person in the mirror and use it as an excuse to not push his black fighters anymore.

He doesn't really want to do the work and invest in any U.S. fighters. Why do you think he tried to push Lomachenko so hard. Lomachenko had a fan base in Europe so he figured he would break out in America because he has the complexion for it and Loma never blew up for numerous reasons I won't get into right now because I could make a whole thread on that. Meanwhile he tells Crawford that he loses tons of money on him, when he should have used all that money he used to push Loma on building up Crawford.

It's just a lot of smoke and mirrors and bullshyt when it comes to Bob Arum, and strong arm tactics that he doesn't realize he don't have the clout or pull to get away with anymore.

You don't live in America do I don't fault you for not understanding the US market and politics, but trust me this fight is gonna flop and Arum will blame everyone else besides himself. @aceboon aint lying Jamel Herring himself said it was stupid as hell to do this fight in Atlanta; that oughta tell you everything right there when a fighter is bashing the location of his own fight.

It's not that I don't understand your point, I just didn't know why you'd be angry at them, but I get you now, fair enough

and Bud needs to step down or have them deliver the Spence fight in a year, something that proably won't happen if he stays
 

Dallas' 4 Eva

Superstar
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
12,322
Reputation
2,697
Daps
42,777
i think it just comes down to

Herring vs Stevenson lets be honest does not scream excitement on paper if you're not a casual. If you put this in front of an audience thats majority black and not their hometown areas and it doesn't get over from an action standpoint...its going to look bad on them and the promoter..and then the promoter will blame the fighters....Boxing 101 lol

i have no personal stake in this anyways..i can care less if they sell or not but you'd just hate to see them shooting themselves in the foot over and over not learning from mistakes

@reservoirdogs at the end of the day this is what it comes down too. Top Rank has tried this time and time again and they fail everytime and never try anything different then wonder why PBC came into the game and in 5 years completely took over and dominated the U.S. market when Top Rank has been around since my dad was a kid. It's just watching insanity play out over and over.
 

Derek Lee

#thunderup
Supporter
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Messages
38,557
Reputation
4,683
Daps
116,446
Canelo Alvarez-Caleb Plant is no longer happening. Who is most to blame?

GettyImages-1207203957-2-1024x683.jpg

By Lance Pugmire Aug 3, 2021
comment-icon.png
33
save-icon.png

The collapse of negotiations between boxing’s two major power brokers – Canelo Alvarez and Al Haymon – remains the talk of the sport.

By pursuing a fourth and final super-middleweight belt, four-division champion and pound-for-pound king Canelo flexed his “A” side status by demanding a series of concessions from Haymon and his Premier Boxing Champions fighter Caleb Plant. Haymon finally said no, littering the sport with chaos over the possibility of Mexican Independence weekend slipping by without a major fight.

How will Plant ever recoup losing that type of purse money? And what Alvarez will do next? The subject deservedly opens our mailbag this week, so let’s dive in.

Lance, who do you think is more to blame for the Canelo-Plant fiasco? Canelo, for demanding $40 million guaranteed regardless if Plant is injured/gets COVID and is unable to fight with a replacement fighter taking his place? Or PBC/Haymon balking at the guaranteed money and scrapping the fight altogether? And would this damage any potential PBC/Canelo relationship and put Eddie Hearn in the driver’s seat for future Canelo bouts? And where does Plant go from here? He’s not getting a $10 million purse anytime soon. — Tony C.

You’ve covered the key questions, Tony. Let’s start from the top: I don’t see it as a point to blame as much as a boxing reality.

The episode brought me back to 2013, when I covered Alvarez’s bold push at 23 years old to take on the then pound-for-pound king Floyd Mayweather Jr. – represented by Haymon. Alvarez readily embraced his role as the “B” side because he wanted to get in the ring to witness boxing at its highest level. In the best case, he’d land a flurry of hurtful power punches on Mayweather and produce an upset. In the worst case, he’d gain treasured experience for the lengthy career he’d envisioned while cashing in mightily.

Not only was Alvarez’s purse a fraction of Mayweather’s, he had to uncomfortably cut weight below his 154-pound limit to 152 pounds. So now that the roles were reversed, who could blame Canelo for making Haymon squirm and ache the way Mexico’s most popular fighter did eight years ago?

Guarantee $40 million. Secure a replacement opponent for the same money if – and let’s be honest, that’s one hell of an if — Plant fails to keep the date. Forget proposing a two-fight deal.

This is what the “A” side does. Haymon knows that because Oscar De La Hoya did it to Mayweather before Mayweather did it to Canelo. Haymon presided over this kind of chest pumping for the better part of a decade with Mayweather, as Mayweather and Haymon made Manny Pacquiao wait for five years until they had the right deal.

Even now, in the welterweight division, Haymon is exercising from the same position of power by keeping unbeaten WBO champion Terence Crawford at bay from Haymon’s two-belt champion Errol Spence Jr. But in seeking to retain that privilege from the “B” side with IBF champion Plant and his thin resume, Haymon got straight-armed in the same manner he’s delivered it to others all these years.

Unless there’s a return route to Canelo, Haymon now has to navigate a highly tricky course with Plant to find him substantial purse money from someone other than the best in-house option, David Benavidez, who has an Aug. 28 homecoming bout in Phoenix.

Former WBC champion Benavidez will be a strong favorite over Plant if they fight, and defeat leaves Plant in a perilous place so much different from where he stood last week if they had accepted all of the Alvarez-imposed concessions.

I believe Canelo truly wanted the Plant fight most, to become the first fully unified super-middleweight champion in history. But more than that, he wants to be the sport’s unquestioned “A” side fighter, so, yes, he can now return to Hearn to select him a fight of his choosing. In his wake, Alvarez has accomplished a rarity of leaving Haymon feeling out in the cold.

Is the Canelo-GGG trilogy basically dead at this point? The Plant fight falling apart would seem to be the perfect opportunity to make it. Especially after reading in your column recently that GGG says he is ready and willing. Bivol is a decent fight, but is anybody really clamoring for that? — Dan C.

I believe Golovkin is doing the right thing by maintaining his silence. Usually anything he says only aggravates Canelo now.

That said, most associated with this situation believe Alvarez is intent to let Golovkin disappear into the oblivion of fights against the likes of Ryoto Murata or Demetrius Andrade that will deprive him of the mega-purses he collected when fighting Alvarez.

There’s no question Alvarez-Golovkin III is the best Sept. 18 (or early fall) bout to make now, but like I said above, what the “A” sie wants, the “A” side gets.



Gennady Golovkin-Canelo Alvarez 3 happen later this year? (Tom Hogan/Golden Boy/Getty Images)
 

Derek Lee

#thunderup
Supporter
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Messages
38,557
Reputation
4,683
Daps
116,446
Hey Lance. With lawsuits and possible injunctions flying around, just how much jeopardy is Pacquiao vs. Spence actually in? The lack of consternation seems a little surprising in light of what we just went through with Joshua and Fury. — Dean M.

You’re referring to the lawsuit filed against Pacquiao in June by Conor McGregor’s manager Audie Attar and his company Paradigm for alleged breach of contract.
Attar believes he is the rightful representative of Pacquiao, but the eight-division world champion and Philippines Senator retreated from Attar despite receiving $3.3 million in advances from Attar that was to be repaid by Aug. 1.

Attar is represented by the relentless attorney Judd Burstein, a longtime boxing lawyer who filed what he called an “explosive” affidavit Monday.

In the filing, a witness, Pacquiao business manager Arnold Vegafria, states under oath that in two weekend telephone conversations with Pacquiao that the fighter said he did not know his attorney had made false accusations in a Friday cross complaint that Vegafria had a side deal with Paradigm and took $300,000 of the advance money.

In the affidavit, Vegafria produced a document showing $300,000 instead went to a Pacquiao attorney, Brandon Viernesto. In Burstein’s filing, he claims Pacquiao’s personal assistant, David Sisson, held $1.7 million for the fighter, who pocketed the remaining $1.3 million.

In the Pacquiao counter-claim filed to the Orange County (Calif.) Superior Court, Pacquiao attorney Dale Kinsella wrote, “(Paradigm Sports Management) has done nothing for Pacquiao. PSM has swindled him and selfishly attempted to exploit Pacquiao’s name to expand its business to include professional boxers, in addition to MMA fighters.”

Kinsella wrote that Paradigm did not follow through with promises for a Pacquiao-McGregor fight and sponsorship deals.

Burstein has indeed filed an injunction to stop the Pacquiao-Spence bout, at least wanting money he and Attar claim is owed Paradigm by Pacquiao to be placed in an escrow account. Orange County Judicial Officer Walter P. Schwarm is scheduled to consider the injuction at a Friday hearing in Orange County.

Stopping a bout that would deprive Pacquiao of millions that would exceed what Attar/Paradigm could possibly gain through this lawsuit seems unlikely. But you’re right: Given what we’ve seen in the Fury-Wilder episode, stay tuned. We may not know there’ll be a fight until the first punch is thrown inside the ring on Aug. 21.

Lance, not sure if you have been watching any of the boxing at the Olympics, but has anyone caught your eye? Who do you think has what it takes to be a future world champion? — Peter K.

As we’ve said here, the most promising U.S. pro is lightweight Keyshawn Davis, who has reached the semifinals with a shot at a gold medal with two more wins. The swift movement, defensive awareness and confidence of Davis gives him a leg up on his countrymen.

But featherweight Duke Ragan boosted the American presence by advancing to the gold medal round and heavyweight Ricardo Torrez Jr. also is in the medal round by virtue of his Sunday victory in Tokyo.

“It’s so very important for the American Olympians to succeed and give the sport a buzz about these young prospects since we haven’t had a (men’s) gold in such a long time,” said Top Rank matchmaker Brad Goodman.

Top Rank already has Ragan and ousted middleweight Troy Isley in its stable, and while Isley lost, Goodman foresees him as a successful pro.

“Ragan is experienced and has four pro fights under his belt. How good he’ll be remains to be seen because he still has that amateur style (scripted to remain elusive and score points with punches that don’t require thunderous thrust),” Goodman said. “Isley is better suited to the pros because he’s more aggressive, he comes right at you, looking to take your head off.”

Goodman also likes Lou DiBella-signed super-heavyweight Bakhodir Jalokov of Uzbekistan.

Is there anything that can be done about the gaps between fights? I would consider myself in between a casual and hard-core fan. I don’t watch all the fights, but there are certain fighters I’m a fan of and will always watch if I can. But they all fight so infrequently, either due to contract negotiations and problems between promoters and boxing organizations or having time off between fights and long training camps/promotional tours. Some fighters only seem to fight once a year, or once every two years even. That can only be a bad thing for the sport’s growth and competitiveness commercially. Fans are attracted to stars and following their favorite athletes, and many will lose interest if they hardly ever get to see them compete. Is there anything that can be done about it? — Caleb A.

Great question, Caleb, not that I have an outstanding answer for it, however.

We’ve long banged the drum here that one of the sport’s greatest missed opportunities is allowing its athletes to disappear from the public’s consciousness between fights, and how so many of the fighters seem pleased to do so. Happy to earn the money, happier to go into hiding.

One solution appeared to be the push by pound-for-pound king Canelo Alvarez to fight four times this year – a nudge to others like welterweight champions Errol Spence Jr. and Terence Crawford, the Charlo brothers and once-a-year featherweight champion Gary Russell Jr. to ramp up their own pursuits of greatness.

But promoters and broadcasters also bear some responsibilities in their unwillingness to pay for more fights, and their lack of regard for keeping their fighters in the news between bouts. You would think all involved would put more effort into this instead of allowing for the malaise of interest that heightens during inactivity.

But maybe they simply don’t care.

Who is the one boxer that no one is talking about, or is not on everyone’s radar, but should be? — Isaac C.

I know unbeaten super-middleweight Edgar Berlanga of Brooklyn gained some attention with his string of 16 first-round knockouts, but the 24-year-old is doing some substantial things to build his profile.

He’ll fight on the high-profile Oct. 9 undercard of Tyson Fury-Deontay Wilder at T-Mobie Arena in Las Vegas.

And on Monday, Berlanga and his shrewd manager Keith Connolly were pictured striking a deal with Madison Square Garden officials to place some of his fights there.
Berlanga competes in a talent-heavy division, loves the knockout and has an A-plus personality. What’s not to love?

Hi Lance, following the victories for Josh Taylor and Devin Haney, and Leigh Wood’s emphatic, well-fought victory over Xu Can on Saturday, do you think trainer Ben Davison (and his backroom team) should be considered amongst the elite tacticians of the sport? — Liam B.

Yes, Liam, Ben is having a triumphant year that reflects both the knowledge and enthusiasm he brings to cornering fighters. By guiding England’s 33-year-old Wood to the 12th-round TKO upset over the Chinese fighter, former Tyson Fury trainer Davison oversaw an inspired showing.

Davison is a sturdy, driven voice that the fighters you mention have relied upon to assert their talent, and I know Ben is excited about a young crop of prospects on their way.

Predictably, little mention of it in here. But Leigh Wood….WOW! Any fighter capable of executing a game plan in that manner, in his first fight at world level … sensational. What is next for Leigh? — Alex O.

Hi Alex: We watched it, and what was supposed to be the co-main under the return of Conor Benn instead provided high entertainment as Wood shined on the DAZN/Matchroom show. Obviously, I think you start by projecting him against the Sept. 4 Josh Warrington-Mauricio Lara rematch, but I’d love to see Leo Santa Cruz venture overseas for Wood. Can you imagine the action? And the stakes and exposure would be ideal for the winner. Sign me up!




Will Terence Crawford and Bob Arum remain together after his current deal is up? (Mikey Williams/Top Rank Inc via Getty Images)


Do you think Crawford stays with Top Rank once his contract is over? And if does leave, does he go to PBC or stay as a free agent? — Julio A.

The only unknown I see is how fiercely Al Haymon and PBC want Crawford following the bashing of his drawing power that Top Rank’s Bob Arum has aimed at the unbeaten three-division champion.

Obviously, it makes a world of sense for PBC to move to win the purse bid for Crawford’s mandatory WBO title defense against former champion and PBC product Porter.

In victory, Crawford would have immense value for PBC to move toward an undisputed series that could include the Aug. 21 Errol Spence Jr.-Manny Pacquiao winner, WBA champion Yordenis Ugas and Crawford. The fact that PBC also has a loaded 154-pound stable headed by three-belt champion Jermell Charlo bodes well for a Crawford-PBC alliance.

Hey Lance, if Deontay Wilder somehow beats Tyson Fury, how do you think that affects Anthony Joshua’s next fight? (considering he wins over Oleksandr Usyk in September). I know the boxing world wants an A.J. v Fury matchup, but if Wilder wins, who knows what will happen after that? — Austin D.

While there is a deal in place to stage a Joshua-Fury doubleheader should both men win their fall bouts, my understanding is three-belt champion Joshua will attend the Fury-Wilder WBC title fight Oct. 9 in Las Vegas and will move to fight the winner for all four belts.

Wilder botched his first chance to fight Joshua when he walked away from $150 million offered by DAZN. He now has a second chance, and while it might be hinged only to a puncher’s chance, it’s better than what he had before an arbitrator’s favorable ruling.

Does anyone actually care about seeing Teofimo Lopez vs. George Kambosos Jr. at this point? It was a decent match up as a mandatory, but all this fuss and drawing it out is just not worth it. I’d much rather Lopez just vacate, do a keep-busy fight and then rematch Loma in December. — Samuel R.

It’s getting to that point, Samuel, because as committed to taking the fight to Australia as Triller founder Ryan Kavanaugh is, Teofimo seems as hell-bent to have things his way as the IBF nears a final decision on the matter. Belts matter, but compromising your position – especially considering how Manny Pacquiao was jobbed by judges in Australia supportive of native son Jeff Horn – is not in a fighter’s interest.

Given the quarantine and confinement issues that would confront Lopez in Australia, his smartest move if forced to go there would be to vacate the belt and pursue that Lomachenko rematch in December.

(Top photo: Brett Carlsen/Getty Images)
 

reservoirdogs

Superstar
Joined
Jun 1, 2016
Messages
12,817
Reputation
1,040
Daps
25,825
IBF might be annoying with these mandatories sometimes BUT at least they usually adhere to their own rules and they are accountable :yeshrug: More than what you can say about the other ones. Even if it took a federal raid to get there :mjlol:
 
Top