Essential The Official Football (Soccer) Thread - RIP Diogo Jota

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Those are cherry picked one off matches. Including a Super Cup which is like the 1st official game of the season. And the rest of games are like 2.5-3-4 years old. Which doesn't really relate/compare to the struggles of this season where its game after game after game when the form is so inconsistent he and the fans have no idea what they are going to get from one game to the next. At Sporting a bad run for Amorim was not winning for 3 games which happened like twice. He did b2b defeats like 4 times at Sporting.

Your argument for struggles would of been better using the 3 b2b defeat games from the 22/23 season 6 defeats in the first 18 games. And not using bad result games which in truth every coach has. Pep had it in his first season at Citeh and this season. Klopp has had 5 6 and 7 dropped on his head.

it's enough for him to learn to shut a game down i.e. maybe learn to adjust his team to keep the score down.

i'd think that even modestly skilled managers are able to do that.

and yes, doing that in cups is pro-rata more important than single games in the league.
 

Kunty McPhuck

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it's enough for him to learn to shut a game down i.e. maybe learn to adjust his team to keep the score down.

i'd think that even modestly skilled managers are able to do that.

and yes, doing that in cups is pro-rata more important than single games in the league.

Ancelotti got 16 goals dropped on him in 4 games vs Barca this season. He has the Deportivo and Liverpool comebacks on him. Is he not skilled?

It's easy pick a bunch of singular games over a 4 year period vs a run of form that shows a clear pattern of behaviour is what I'm talking about struggles. When your tactics aren't working and how you adjust to get the team back on track.

There is plenty of examples when league form is totally different to the form in the European comps its a pleasant distractions. Chelsea winning in 12. Yanited under Mourinho winning the Europa. Didn't West Ham win the conference while finishing 14/15th? End of the day the League is the bread and butter (you even put up the prize money table) unless you're called Real Madrid.
 

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Ancelotti got 16 goals dropped on him in 4 games vs Barca this season. He has the Deportivo and Liverpool comebacks on him. Is he not skilled?

maybe i should have listed the names in those defeats.

everyone knows that ancelotti lacks league consistency. and barca are the pinnacle of football i.e. not quite the same thing.

It's easy pick a bunch of singular games over a 4 year period vs a run of form that shows a clear pattern of behaviour is what I'm talking about struggles. When your tactics aren't working and how you adjust to get the team back on track.

nope. it is the number of high score defeats as a pattern over years against good and middling teams that is the issue here.

this issue is still going on at MU.

There is plenty of examples when league form is totally different to the form in the European comps its a pleasant distractions. Chelsea winning in 12. Yanited under Mourinho winning the Europa. Didn't West Ham win the conference while finishing 14/15th? End of the day the League is the bread and butter (you even put up the prize money table) unless you're called Real Madrid.

what does this have to do with amorim's inability to avoid high score defeats (even when playing with "suitable system players")?
 

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maybe i should have listed the names in those defeats.

everyone knows that ancelotti lacks league consistency. and barca are the pinnacle of football i.e. not quite the same thing.

4 out of those 6 games mentioned about Ancelotti were Cup games. You know Carlo's bread and butter.

nope. it is the number of high score defeats as a pattern over years against good and middling teams that is the issue here.

Thats what happens to coaches and their systems when the system gets broken/exposed. They get smacked up like Emery does by Glasner. Newcastle when they arent at full speed take beatings. It is what it is and you know this as youve watched football long enough.

this issue is still going on at MU.



what does this have to do with amorim's inability to avoid high score defeats (even when playing with "suitable system players")?

You Cherry picking European games. League form and European form can be night and day from one another within the same season. Which often maskes the actual issues of a team.

It's obvious that he's failed to adjust to the Prem which what both of us said months ago.

You asked why doesn't he adjust his style till the end of the season. As i said he hasn't had that run of form struggle that's required him too. And he's already said plenty of times he's not changing. So we know what time he's on. He's being idealistic like these new modern coaches are. Like when they go into their first job and want their oak tree veteran CB's who can barely pass the ball 5 yards to play out from the back. And then they they complain when they get sacked about I wasnt given enough time. You don't deserve more time because you failed to understand your personnel nd adapt as required.
 

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4 out of those 6 games mentioned about Ancelotti were Cup games. You know Carlo's bread and butter.



Thats what happens to coaches and their systems when the system gets broken/exposed. They get smacked up like Emery does by Glasner. Newcastle when they arent at full speed take beatings. It is what it is and you know this as youve watched football long enough.



You Cherry picking European games.

no i did not. i picked all the big losses. the most are against no name teams.

League form and European form can be night and day from one another within the same season. Which often maskes the actual issues of a team.

It's obvious that he's failed to adjust to the Prem which what both of us said months ago.

You asked why doesn't he adjust his style till the end of the season. As i said he hasn't had that run of form struggle that's required him too. And he's already said plenty of times he's not changing. So we know what time he's on. He's being idealistic like these new modern coaches are. Like when they go into their first job and want their oak tree veteran CB's who can barely pass the ball 5 yards to play out from the back. And then they they complain when they get sacked about I wasnt given enough time. You don't deserve more time because you failed to understand your personnel nd adapt as required.

i am saying that when his system is rumbled he finds it hard-er than a top manager should find it to adjust, in order to avoid conceding a lot.

in particular a common adjustment that managers should know is how to shut a game down. also known as protecting a lead or stopping the score running up.

his record shows that that would have been a useful skill for him to have had BEFORE he arrived at MU. now at MU (albeit not with his players) we see more of the same. Lyon score 4 goals from 2 - 0 down. even when 3 - 0 fans and players both knew that the tie was far from safe.

now maybe at sporting not being able to shut a game down was less important because top class managers who know how to circumvent his system were thinner on the ground. in the prem however more teams have good managers and so this skill becomes more important.

that's just one adjustment, in a quiver of skills that he should have if he is going to challenge at the top.

or, of course, his system might be un-crackable, when he gets "his prem players" :hubie:

as i said above i don't think that the prem allows for tolerances for his overloads.

also bruno here says some damning things that should help put amorim's level in context.

ts'd



cliffs:

armoim didn't know about smaller team skill levels and intensity.

he didn't know about 2nd ball empasis in the league.

- does he even have means to counter things like this in his methods?
 

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no i did not. i picked all the big losses. the most are against no name teams.

Benfica Porto Citeh Ajax and Marseille are no-name teams. :leon:

i am saying that when his system is rumbled he finds it hard-er than a top manager should find it to adjust, in order to avoid conceding a lot.

He isn't the only one. Modern coaches. It's the way we play. Processes and outcomes all that jazz. Not that I'm against sports psychology. It's just the players kind misunderstand that playing with freedom doesn't mean you can throw decision making in the bushes either

in particular a common adjustment that managers should know is how to shut a game down. also known as protecting a lead or stopping the score running up.

One mans Freedom Fighter vs Another mans terrorist. Should of went for the Waistcoat and Holland duo. I hear Deschamps is free next summer.


his record shows that that would have been a useful skill for him to have had BEFORE he arrived at MU. now at MU (albeit not with his players) we see more of the same. Lyon score 4 goals from 2 - 0 down. even when 3 - 0 fans and players both knew that the tie was far from safe.

It seems to be more of a modern trend over the last decade then it has been in the decades prior. Just look at some of the CL results. Crazy results/comebacks are happening more often. Is it the coaching getting worse? is it the players being better? Is it VAR? The refs allowing the game to flow more in European competitions?


now maybe at sporting not being able to shut a game down was less important because top class managers who know how to circumvent his system were thinner on the ground. in the prem however more teams have good managers and so this skill becomes more important.

Tbh it's more the change of mentality over the past decade. You still have your terrorist coaches but they seem to of being marginalised to National Teams or mid table clubs. Everyone wants to be entertained or are perverts and are turned on by death by a thousand cuts possession football.


that's just one adjustment, in a quiver of skills that he should have if he is going to challenge at the top.

or, of course, his system might be un-crackable, when he gets "his prem players" :hubie:

How many game will he of had in the Prem 26-28? by the end of the season. Regardless of the players they bring in. The patterns and habits of how he is trying to get the team to play are already on USB key. Word to Unai Emery. Don't see how he is going to bring something new for next season even with newer players unless he adapts and adjusts certain things to his framework and model.

as i said above i don't think that the prem allows for tolerances for his overloads.

He underestimated the Prem athleticism and intensity and physicality of the duels. Which is what you said back in December/January . Everyone does who doesn't watch Prem phuck around and find outs.

also bruno here says some damning things that should help put amorim's level in context.

ts'd



cliffs:

armoim didn't know about smaller team skill levels and intensity.

he didn't know about 2nd ball empasis in the league.

- does he even have means to counter things like this in his methods?


Tbh most of the foreigner players and coaches don't know about the Prem lower level teams until they come up against them for the first time. After a few months in the league one of the first things they say when speaking about the league is how even the bottom teams fight and no easy games. You're right it is poor form that they should know. But reality is how many of these coaches unless theyre collecting stamps in their passports going from league to league. Do they know anything beyond teams big name clubs or clubs they've faced in European competion before.
 

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Tbh most of the foreigner players and coaches don't know about the Prem lower level teams until they come up against them for the first time. After a few months in the league one of the first things they say when speaking about the league is how even the bottom teams fight and no easy games. You're right it is poor form that they should know. But reality is how many of these coaches unless theyre collecting stamps in their passports going from league to league. Do they know anything beyond teams big name clubs or clubs they've faced in European competion before.

the man is being paid millions. berrada too. but fair enough.

:hubie:


commentary: timestamped.

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