Why are you in here? You said multiple times you only care about domestic politics, at this point you're concern trolling the thread. HL need to being some order back
The Official Israel-Gaza Thread
It is crazy how the toxic cocktail of YahooNeta needing to prolong his political life as long as possible by keeping this slaughter going, plus his reliance on the extremists to keep the government active, has led to this state
Outlaw
New Hope For the HaveNotz
you accusing someone of concern trolling?
Me criticizing Republican hypocrisy is concern trolling now? I forgot we should only shyt on democrats
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Outlaw
New Hope For the HaveNotz
Political pressure could be applied, fascism would have been defeated even if for the short whileAnd if the Democrats won?
I know fascism would have been "defeated" (I would call it a setback but that's another topic entirely)
We are speaking about the issue in this thread. Do the Palestinians win if the Democrats win?
Outlaw
New Hope For the HaveNotz
Yes, my belief is that Kamala did a political calculation by respecting Biden’s wishes prior to the election but I think she would have distanced her self from Bibi and forced a permanent ceasefire as well as return the dialogue to a two state solution.
I also think protestors would have kept protesting Kamala if nothing changed and she would have caved to pressure not to allow it be a stain on her political capital
ADevilYouKhow
Rhyme Reason
Hamas is still holding Americans hostage
Let's break this down one at a time
She went further than this. She gave no indication she disagreed with Biden on any major issue. And given the way the Biden administration sidelined her during his presidency, she would have been forgiven for striking out a different path, especially after Biden bowed out. She had no reason to stick with Biden's stances. Other than the fact that she didn't want to, or didn't have anything substantial to offer on her own two feet.
She gave no indication of this. To the contrary
1. She shut out Palestinian Americans at the convention. Completely
2. She repeated unproven rumors about the events of October 7, specifically supposed rapes that have not been corroborated, or have been debunked by unbiased sources
3. She flatly stated her priorities on this issue. Her allegiance to Israel.
4. She stated there was zero daylight between her and Biden
5. She's not uttered any word against Israel since the election. Even Walz suggested they got that wrong.
6. She did not come out against the atrocities happening in the West Bank that are unprovoked (there is no link between
Now. You are free to disregard the above and believe that despite the above and zero concrete overtures to the other side, Kamala would have distanced herself from Bibi. Given the facts, believing in Kamala is a leap in faith the public were not confident in taking. If the local bustdown told me she'd stay with me for the rest of my life and be faithful to me, even if I bought it, I wouldn't expect my boys to believe it
Why
She paid them ZERO mind leading up to the election. What makes you think she would start listening to them AFTER the election?
Who in the Democratic party is vocal on this issue? Tlaib, Bernie at times, Van Hollen... Who else?
Again, you are free to have this level of faith. Expecting it of other people... That's irrational.
It's more honest to say, "look, neither side gives a fukk about Palestine. I don't give a fukk about Palestine. I give a fukk about domestic issues. The Democrats are better on domestic issues. That's why I'm voting for them". Guess what? I can accept that. Don't impose that view on me, but I can accept that being your view.
But don't shyt in my ice cream cone and tell me it's chocolate ice cream, because the other guy is selling 5 day shyt.
Outlaw
New Hope For the HaveNotz
Why is it that Kamala or democrats words for that matter are always taken at face value, never receiving the benefit of the doubt but Trump always receive good faith interpretations or handwaving of his insanity.Let's break this down one at a time
She went further than this. She gave no indication she disagreed with Biden on any major issue. And given the way the Biden administration sidelined her during his presidency, she would have been forgiven for striking out a different path, especially after Biden bowed out. She had no reason to stick with Biden's stances. Other than the fact that she didn't want to, or didn't have anything substantial to offer on her own two feet.
She gave no indication of this. To the contrary
1. She shut out Palestinian Americans at the convention. Completely
2. She repeated unproven rumors about the events of October 7, specifically supposed rapes that have not been corroborated, or have been debunked by unbiased sources
3. She flatly stated her priorities on this issue. Her allegiance to Israel.
4. She stated there was zero daylight between her and Biden
5. She's not uttered any word against Israel since the election. Even Walz suggested they got that wrong.
6. She did not come out against the atrocities happening in the West Bank that are unprovoked (there is no link between
Now. You are free to disregard the above and believe that despite the above and zero concrete overtures to the other side, Kamala would have distanced herself from Bibi. Given the facts, believing in Kamala is a leap in faith the public were not confident in taking. If the local bustdown told me she'd stay with me for the rest of my life and be faithful to me, even if I bought it, I wouldn't expect my boys to believe it
Why
She paid them ZERO mind leading up to the election. What makes you think she would start listening to them AFTER the election?
Who in the Democratic party is vocal on this issue? Tlaib, Bernie at times, Van Hollen... Who else?
Again, you are free to have this level of faith. Expecting it of other people... That's irrational.
It's more honest to say, "look, neither side gives a fukk about Palestine. I don't give a fukk about Palestine. I give a fukk about domestic issues. The Democrats are better on domestic issues. That's why I'm voting for them". Guess what? I can accept that. Don't impose that view on me, but I can accept that being your view.
But don't shyt in my ice cream cone and tell me it's chocolate ice cream, because the other guy is selling 5 day shyt.
All of your evidences that Kamala would be a rabid Zionist can be explained away by a few things: she used Biden’s campaign apparatus, she promised she would stay loyal to him during the run up to the election(to her detriment) and she probably concluded siding with the Palestinians would flip left of center Zionist Jews to trump which would offset the gains she would get from Arabs.
During the run up to the election I read that Kamala was going to bring on Obama’s foreign policy advisors in her administration which would have been a departure from Biden’s strategy.
Kamala also called for a ceasefire in march of 2024
Sure she made some political miscalculations in hindsight but I believe she acted in good faith with the intentions of ending the conflict as soon as possible, when she no longer had to worry about giving the “right” answer to piss off the least amount of people
I don’t even know why you’re trying to debate me on this - you agree Kamala would be a net benefit for humanity as a whole compared to Trump, including the Palestinians…
Unless you think there’s a possibility that I’m wrong for thinking that
dems are feckless spineless shells with no real convictions who will do whatever they are told
Kamala would never be influenced by constant public outrage, mr Trump on the other hand…
I doI don’t even know why you’re trying to debate me on this - you agree Kamala would be a net benefit for humanity as a whole compared to Trump, including the Palestinians…
Unless you think there’s a possibility that I’m wrong for thinking that
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
By who? You guys keep doing this "I saw DSA wearing MAGA hats" routine and it's nonsense. The left is not handwaving away Trump's insanity or treating him like a hero. Just because leftists are accurately critiquing the Democrats doesn't mean they're now in love with Republicans. This only makes sense from the Centrist Democrat parasocial lens of viewing politics as team sport, so if you're booing the home team's shytty performance that actually means you're in favor of the opponents. We're booing them so they get shamed into being a better, stronger force against the Republican opps. Y'all are the ones making them weaker by refusing to criticize their objectively shytty, losing performances so they think they can keep putting out bullshyt and the donations and support will keep flowing in.
All this shows is that Kamala is a political neophyte and coward who would most likely not be willing to take the risk of pursuing a new, moral policy in response to this crisis. Dollars to donuts she would do the "I see you, I hear you" HR Sad Face while ineptly trying to pivot away to other easier issues like she did in the CNN Town Hall when asked what she would say to voters who are considering abstaining over this issue.
The calculus doesn't go away after the election. She would have a political agenda she'd be looking to pass, and pissing off the Zionist lobby would be an active consideration in her Administration. AIPAC would simply threaten to destroy her Presidency. There is nothing in her history or the way she ran her campaign that shows she'd be willing to take the risk and stand up to them. She doesn't give a fukk about this issue, it was an inconvenient thorn in her side. Her ideal scenario wouldn't be spending political capital to end the conflict, it would be for people to stop paying attention to the genocide so she can redirect focus to safer political wins.
Sigh.
Why are worried about differential treatment of the parties in discussion? You sound like OKC fans furious they don't get the same coverage as the Knicks
Plus, no one here is taking Trump at face value. He is a liar and a cheat and an amoral person. Are you happy your crush is not far from Trump in terms of comparison?
I'm not calling her a rabid Zionist. I'm just saying she didn't do enough to convince voters that she wasn't a rabid Zionist.
She didn't have to use his apparatus (which was rotten). She didn't have to stay loyal to him. Her probable calculations were completely wrong (if siding with Palestinians flip Zionists to Trump, they were not left of center)
From where? And what about Obama's foreign policy advisors suggested a break from Biden's with regard to Israel?
She was running for president and leader of the free world. Did she indicate that as president she would pull YahooNeta to order and force a ceasefire? Or did she passively call for a ceasefire as someone impotent to change the status quo?
You are pulling this out your ass and it would be great if you admitted this.
What does "as soon as possible mean"? When is the soonest time to end a genocide or pull support for it, other than now? Why didn't she commit to now?
No. We are speaking about the Palestinians. How would she be a net benefit to the Palestinians? Did she commit to polling support from Israel? Did she commit to leveraging the full power of the United States to ensure peace and justice in Gaza and the West Bank?
Some of y'all suck on half measures. I don't.
Unless you think there’s a possibility that I’m wrong for thinking that
I agree Kamala overall would have been better for humanity. There is no factual basis for believing she would have been better for the Palestinians. Did she say anything before October 7 of 2023?