apparently, lombard's coming down to 170...so...
diaz vs. hector??
How the hell can Lombard make 170?
He's gonna have to lose a lot of that muscle to do it.
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How the hell can Lombard make 170?
He's gonna have to lose a lot of that muscle to do it.
Screwface Exchange
All Star
I would put Aldo ahead of Jones in the p4p rankings. Based of the fact that its a pound 4 pound list, not just who is the best champ. I try to picture if both guys were the same size who would win in a fight.
If Bones was the same height and size as Rashad, would he have dominated him in that fight the same way? Who knows, I would like to think not, as mostly the reach was a problem. Also has Bones fought sum1 bigger than him and dominated him the same way? BOnes has beaten big named fighters, but really look who he beat.
Vitor who jus fought at MW, and almost got tapped out still
Rashad, cldnt knock em out, cldnt dominate em on the ground, he just used his reach n outpointed him.
old man Rampage, come on now.
Rua wit a banged up knee
machida - only has 1 real dominate win in ufc vs rashad, inless u count beating old man couture, or never was badr
vlad matyushenko, old dude is retired, come on.
When i think of Anderson, i know he fought guys bigger than him in light hw and still dominated, and even beat a former champs at a class higher than his in forrest. And then when bigger guys would drop down in class to face em he still dominated, Dan Henderson, Vitor 2 guys who've combined faced the who's who in LHW and even HW divisions. Also Dan Henderson has foug You think if Bones fought cain or jds he would still dominate?
Aldo's win over Edgar really puts him into the num2 slot for me, as Edgar is a guy who was champ at 155, and a clear champ as he beat one of the best in BJ Penn twice. He also beat Florian another guy who has fought at heavier weight classes and beat top quality opponents.
Look at a fighter like GSP and yes he clearly dominates his opponents and been doing it for a while, but how many guys has he dominated thats been bigger than him? I think only 2 fighters he's faced bigger than him or close to same size, shields and trigg. And Shields most pundits say beat em the 5th round. If GSP fought sum1 equal in size and strength would he still be as dominate? Would he still be able to control guys on the ground the way he has? I dunno, which is why every1 wants to see a superfight.
So with last nights fight that TUF poster with ......
uriah and dylan facing off
might be the finals
and yeah i forgot about that mental breakdown that dana was talking about, if bubba turns this fight downhe better not get to fight at TUF finale or any future prelims. speaking of which tor vs adam cella is already on the prelims for the upcoming sweden fuel tv card.
i agree bubba should never be allowed to fight in the ufc if he was that shook to fight Urijah
The Infamous
Superstar
P4P is primarely based on dominance over your division IMO. How else are you going to put together a P4P list? Jones has beaten better competition than Aldo and the LHW division is better than the FW division. The FW division has just recently gotten better, before it was absolutely horrendous. Gamburyen was at one time considered an elite FW [this was around the time Aldo beat him] LOL
Are you serious about the Rashad comment? Jones beat him with ease, and would do it again, regardless of size. Jones beat Rashad because he was the better fighter [superior grappling and striking]. This point was beyond stupid.
Jones has beaten: Rampage [dominated and finished], Rua [dominated and finished, one of the most lopsided title fights in UFC history], Machida [dropped and finished him], Belfort [minus the armbar attempt, got dominated], Rashad [dominated], Bader [dominated and finished]. Plus, as mentioned, Bones has the best 4-fight win-streak in MMA history [Rua, Rampage, Machida and Rashad].
The six wins mentioned above pretty easily surpass Aldo's best 6 wins: Mendes, Edgar, Florian, Faber, Brown, and Hominick.
Yes, Edgar was a really good win, but Aldo didn't out-right dominate him the whole fight. Edgar took two rounds off him , Hominick took two rounds off him, and Florian took a round off him.
Overall, Jones has been finishing and dominating better opponents [and in a tougher division] than Aldo, with less bumps on the road. Hence, he is higher on the P4P list.
GSP dominates because he is one of the most well-rounded fighters in all of MMA and has arguably the best wrestling of any fighter. To believe his dominance is due more to size rather than skill is idiotic.
Screwface Exchange
All Star
Well this is the main debate really, p4p means pound for pound so all things being equal such as height, reach weight who wld you rank as the best. If your basing it just on your division wouldnt that be just a regular divisional mma rankings list, and not a tru p4p?
yeah he beat em wit ease, but never was Rashad in any real trouble, he never got dropped, Bones didnt out wrestle him. It was mainly alot of Bones using his long reach on his jab and his leg kicks to keep Rashad at bay. And Bones did a great job at that, not gonna take nething away from him with that Struve could learn from that.
Its much like GSP vs Condit, yeah GSP controlled condit all fight, but Condit was in no real trouble all fight, the bigger guy just won.
Since when is beating old man Rampage anything to brag about? So what should Badr be on the to 10 list for p4p cuz he beat da old man too.
Rua has had over 3 knee surgeries b4 he even fought Jones, and who has Rua really beaten after the knee surgeries, brandon vera? forrest griffen who was hurt at time?
Belfort who took the fight as a double replacement (hendo injury, machida refusal), and fought Jones wit a broken hand, and had came up from MW, not sure how beatin a MW improves your p4p ranking. And still Belfort almost won with that arm bar. Many would say Jones got lucky there with that.
COme on now really, we're gonna boast finishing Badr? Maybe Tito should come outta retirement then?
If your judging p4p by divisonal wins as you stated you were i can see how you rank jones ahead of aldo here, but from a direct p4p status beatin edgar, florian n faber (still in his prime) alone puts him ahead in my books. Though the win over Hominick isnt too impress.
The LHW division is a bigger division by marketing dollars and ppv buys, but the last couple yrs the LW and FW divisions I find are more competitive and better fights. LHW doesnt even really have that many num1 contenders that ppl really care about, rerun machida gonna fight jones again. Bendo and aldo are gettin top notch challengers down there, pettis, edgar, meledez, hopefully the return of korean zombie and a lot more.
Screwface Exchange
All Star
cnt remember every1 but would bubba p*ssyin out be worst than bobby southworth and gabe in some of the early seasons.
The Infamous
Superstar
I know what P4P is. I just believe P4P should be based on resume [who you've beaten], how dominant you've been in your wins and the strength of your division. I'd put Bones over Aldo on all three points.
Bones was TOYING with Rashad. Grappling was pretty much irrelevant in that fight because it was virtually all stand-up. The very little grappling that the fight did have, we saw Jones come out on top. He was 1/2 for takedowns, while Rashad was 0/4. Here's Jones tossing Rashad like a child:
'Rashad didn't get dropped, he was never in any trouble' Try again. And please don't give me the BS that this wasn't an actual knockdown:
The funny thing is, weren't you the same person that said 'Roy Nelson was never rocked by JDS'?
It actually wasn't like the GSP/Condit fight. Rashad wasn't able to do anything to Bones, while Condit was inches away from KO'ing GSP. Try again breh.
@ comparing Bader's win over Rampage with Jones's. Bader scraped by Rampage, while Bones [again] toyed with him. He became the second person to ever submit Rampage [Sakuraba being the first, in a fight that happened a decade ago].Rampage, Rashad, Bader, and Shogun weren't able to do squat against Bones. Minus that little flurry by Machida and that armbar attempt by Vitor, Bones has looked essentially unbeatable.
Shogun was coming off a KO win over Machida [which is was matters in this argument] and was the LHW champion.
How was Jones the lucky one? If anything, Vitor was the lucky one [in the sense that other than that sub attempt, he was getting absolutely dominated]. I love how you can continue to downplay Jones's wins though.
Bader, at the time was considered a potential elite fighter in the making and he was ranked in the 5-8 LHWs in the world.
Faber and Florian are not better wins than Rashad, Shogun and Machida. Not even close. Come on breh. I'll give you Edgar though.
1.5-2 years ago, the top-ranked FW contenders for Aldo included Manny Gamburyan, Mike Brown, Faber, Grispi, Mendes, Hominick, and Koch. At the same time, the LHW contenders included Rashad, Rampage, Machida, Shogun, Lil Nog and Hendo. Damn, the FW division had much better top-notch contenders. 
The reason the LHW division is kind of stale is because Bones has pretty much cleaned out all the top contenders [minus Gus and Hendo, both of whom he'd fairly easily beat]. Before Jones's reign, LHW was a shark tank and was considered by many, the best division in the UFC.
Screwface Exchange
All Star
so in your opinion you dont use size, weight, reach advantage at all in determination of p4p? as thats the main basis of the definition, if guys were the same size and weight pound for pound. not who you have beaten all the exact same size or smaller than you.
Bones was TOYING with Rashad. Grappling was pretty much irrelevant in that fight because it was virtually all stand-up. The very little grappling that the fight did have, we saw Jones come out on top. He was 1/2 for takedowns, while Rashad was 0/4. Here's Jones tossing Rashad like a child:
If Jones was toying wit em so easily then he shouldve finished em. these are professional atheletes they dont just toy wit sum1 when at anytime they can get hurt or injuried long term. That lil toss, is just that its toss. it wasnt a submission or a knockout its not a huge damage move, its jus scoring a point. Jones won the fight yeah, did he have full control the whole fight yeah, but he won with his reach and size advantage. Good for him he used his gifts to win, but don't act like jones went in there and messed up rashad n knocked em down. an elbow had rashad move back, i mean knock down like dan hendo vs wandy in pride knockdowns.
i was comparing the way Bones Jones wins by using his size and reach advantage to control the fight, much like GSP. Condit got 1 lucky kick and almost ended da fight, Belfort got a lucky submission and almost ended the fight.
Beating Badr means NOTHING, toying with Badr means nothing, Tito Ortiz knocked em out, and Tito rarely knocks out dudes.
Rampage, Rashad, Bader, and Shogun weren't able to do squat against Bones. Minus that little flurry by Machida and that armbar attempt by Vitor, Bones has looked essentially unbeatable.
Rashad was champ for 1 fight n lost, Macida was champ for 1 fighter and lost, rampage was champ for 2 fights n lost, wha bout Rua oh yeah 1 fight and lost, so Bones beat a bunch of 1 and done dudes, thats not really too big an accomplishment. Sounds more like Dana White tryin to hype up his champ so he can sell more ppvs.
Faber was a longtime champ, went undefeated for 3 yrs. i can respect Aldo beating faber badly and soundly. Edgar beat one of the all time greats in BJ penn and the key its a p4p list, and Edgar did it at a higher weight class than Aldo fights at.
when judging a p4p i put beating sum1 bigger than you or has faced dudes bigger than u higher up on the list. Edgar was a lightweight. yeah florian was no champ but he beat a slew of fighers at lightweight a higher weight class, and even beat some welterweights, so beating him puts aldo up on p4p list as well IMO.
Now I understand what your saying about jones cleaning out the division, I agree with that, but doesnt that say more about how poor that division is that outside of gustaffson there are no top elite talents in that weight class. And this is again p4p rankings not divisional rankings so its about who you beat and their size, reach and not cleaning out a division.
I would even argue being the champ at LW Bendo is a bigger accomplishment than being the lhw champ currently. That LW division is deep and talented, lhw really is a bore. hence da reason a MW can go up and get an immediate title shot not once but twice now in Sonnen and Belfort, come on. u aint p4p, u just a champ.
I would take broke jaw Struve over jones in a fight.
p.s. i luv da coli, one of da few places can talk mma wit ppl dat actually know ish.
How the hell can Lombard make 170?
He has no choice
That's great motivation
The worst was mitrione claiming he had headaches
But bubba being a p*ssy, if that's what happens, would be. He should be blackballed by every organazation for the act of cowardice
Tito didn't knock Bader out...it was a submission.
The LHW belt was being passed around frequently b/c the weight class was weak? LOL...for years, LHW was seen as the most competitive weight class in MMA BECAUSE nobody could hold onto the belt. Jones became the first truly dominant champ since Liddell in the LHW division.
Faber lost twice to Mike Brown. The first loss being an embarrassing early 1st round TKO. If Brown didn't lose to Aldo, Urijah probably would've cut down to bantam even earlier. He was pretty much done in the division already.
And now all of a sudden, young Gustaffson is not only an "elite talent" but the only "elite talent" in LHW? I like Gustaffson alot but he's fighting Moussasi and Dana was mad @ Hendo so he fought Machida and not the champ. Sonnen is a draw and actually walks around just as heavy, if not heavier than Jones. Sonnen is the contender of choice, not necessity.
And I don't think Struve's TDD, jiujitsu or IQ is good enough to beat Jones
Silva's the only dude that's fighting in numerous weight classes and dominating.
Other than him and maybe Frankie...it's all pure speculation.
And why can't Lombard fight Munoz? If he can't beat Munoz, then it should be 170 or cut him. Weren't these two itching to fight each other anyways?
The LHW belt was being passed around frequently b/c the weight class was weak? LOL...for years, LHW was seen as the most competitive weight class in MMA BECAUSE nobody could hold onto the belt. Jones became the first truly dominant champ since Liddell in the LHW division.
Faber lost twice to Mike Brown. The first loss being an embarrassing early 1st round TKO. If Brown didn't lose to Aldo, Urijah probably would've cut down to bantam even earlier. He was pretty much done in the division already.
And now all of a sudden, young Gustaffson is not only an "elite talent" but the only "elite talent" in LHW? I like Gustaffson alot but he's fighting Moussasi and Dana was mad @ Hendo so he fought Machida and not the champ. Sonnen is a draw and actually walks around just as heavy, if not heavier than Jones. Sonnen is the contender of choice, not necessity.
And I don't think Struve's TDD, jiujitsu or IQ is good enough to beat Jones
Silva's the only dude that's fighting in numerous weight classes and dominating.
Other than him and maybe Frankie...it's all pure speculation.And why can't Lombard fight Munoz? If he can't beat Munoz, then it should be 170 or cut him. Weren't these two itching to fight each other anyways?
So UnThotful
Superstar
if you got a spare three hours
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Isn't Zombie fighting on that card? They have a low key fw tourney on their hands