Essential The Official MMA Thread

[The Infamous]

Weidman's was a standing guillotine.

 

[The G.O.D II]

Wait a moment, Cain had 33 TD attempts in the second JDS fight, yet he doesn't spam TDs? That's very interesting.

he had that many I have to watch that fight again holy shyt. Must have been all from the clinch. I could have swore he took JDS max 3-4 times. Which is more of an indictment on JDS and his gameplan. Still doesn't excuse GSP though.

 

[The G.O.D II]

im not comparing the two, you asked if their has ever been a standing d'arce and i just provided an example

That was a guillotine after Lawlor got rocked. Completely different

 

[The Infamous]

he had that many I have to watch that fight again holy shyt. Must have been all from the clinch. I could have swore he took JDS max 3-4 times. Which is more of an indictment on JDS and his gameplan. Still doesn't excuse GSP though.

GSP manages to get his opponent down, while Cain was getting stuffed a lot in that fight. That's part of the reason why the attempts are that high.

3-4 times? Come on breh, you cant be serious. I remember at least 6-7 TD attempts in round 1 of their second fight.

What's the problem with GSP taking his opponents down? This is MMA, you take the fight where you're at your strongest. And for GSP, that's on the ground. Am I going to criticize Cain for spamming TDs and the clinch against JDS? No.

 

[The G.O.D II]

GSP manages to get his opponent down, while Cain was getting stuffed a lot in that fight. That's part of the reason why the attempts are that high.

3-4 times? Come on breh, you cant be serious. I remember at least 6-7 TD attempts in round 1 of their second fight.

What's the problem with GSP taking his opponents down? This is MMA, you take the fight where you're at your strongest. And for GSP, that's on the ground. Am I going to criticize Cain for spamming TDs and the clinch against JDS? No.

There isn't any problem. You mentioned GSP in comparison to Cain whens its obvious that GSP has superior wrestling against opps with weaker TDD. Like you said, Cain had 33 attempts on JDS. Which goes back to our original argument about his poor gameplan and footwork.

 

[The Infamous]

There isn't any problem. You mentioned GSP in comparison to Cain whens its obvious that GSP has superior wrestling against opps with weaker TDD. Like you said, Cain had 33 attempts on JDS. Which goes back to our original argument about his poor gameplan and footwork.

At the bolded, let me get this straight, you're saying that GSP has superior wrestling against opposition with weaker TDD [in comparison to Cain]. First of all, GSP has the better wrestling period. Secondly, GSP has faced better wrestlers than Cain has. And finally, the TDD of GSP's opponents have been in general pretty easily better than Cain's.

I agreed with about the poor gameplan and footwork.

 

[The G.O.D II]

At the bolded, let me get this straight, you're saying that GSP has superior wrestling against opposition with weaker TDD [in comparison to Cain]. First of all, GSP has the better wrestling period. Secondly, GSP has faced better wrestlers than Cain has. And finally, the TDD of GSP's opponents have been in general pretty easily better than Cain's.

I agreed with about the poor gameplan and footwork.

Yes I acknowledge GSP has the better wrestling. His TD are much more finesse and come from shooting while Cain's comes more from the clinch. GSP has never fought and opponent with JDS TD defense. Maybe BJ Penn but then again GSP is significantly bigger. S

 

[Screwface Exchange]

Weidman has world class BJJ. He submitted world champions with 6 months of formal training and won ADCC trials. I would say hes probably top 5 in pure BJJ in the UFC. JDS is not on that level. I've never seen him seriously attempt a sub on anyone despite being a black belt

top 10 arguably i would personally give em. but yes you are correct JDS is no where near that level of BJJ.

just a quick 5 to think of, bj penn, demain maia, vinny magalhaes, gabe gonzaga and souza. I would slot weidman prolly around the 8-12 mark, as you still got guys like werdum and jake shields.

 

[The Infamous]

Yes I acknowledge GSP has the better wrestling. His TD are much more finesse and come from shooting while Cain's comes more from the clinch. GSP has never fought and opponent with JDS TD defense. Maybe BJ Penn but then again GSP is significantly bigger. S

No, Cain's TDs are usually either single or double legs.

Koscheck has better TDD than JDS and GSP took him down rather easily. This is while Cain struggles to takedown JDS. GSP has outwrestled Koscheck x2, Hughes, Shields, T. Alves, Jon Fitch, and BJ Penn x2. Cain has out-wrestled Brock and JDS x2. GSP has easily faced and outwrestled the better wrestlers or fighters with good TDD, it's not even close.

 

[The Infamous]

top 10 arguably i would personally give em. but yes you are correct JDS is no where near that level of BJJ.

just a quick 5 to think of, bj penn, demain maia, vinny magalhaes, gabe gonzaga and souza. I would slot weidman prolly around the 8-12 mark, as you still got guys like werdum and jake shields.

BJ Penn doesn't deserve to be in the top 10 right now. He hasn't shown elite BJJ in a while. Werdum should be above Gonzaga, Vinny, and BJ. Off the top of my head, the top 5 is 1) Jacare 2) Werdum 3) Maia and 4) Vinny (if he was still with the UFC) and the last one can be either Gonzaga, Shields, Big Nog (although overrated), or Paul Harris (if he was still with the UFC). Oh, and Roger would be 1) if he was still with the UFC.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

Someone mentioned that Cain had a cracked jaw. I guessed that if Cain did get his jaw cracked, it was likely in the opening seconds. Those were the best shots JDS had of Cain, Stephen.

Who is "someone?"

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

It was the threat of a takedown that was helping Cain out-strike JDS. As a result, JDS would keep his hands low and sacrifice his striking defense in the process. JDS has dropped and finished better strikers than Cain, there's no debating. We're talking about striking and his striking is not head and shoulders above some of the strikers JDS has beaten. Cain has only dropped one good striker, and a good portion of his finishes are due to ground and pound. Do you even watch the fights or you just like to talk out of your ass breh.

In a strictly striking battle, Cain wouldn't have his biggest weapon [his grappling], thus his striking wouldn't be close to as effective. Most knowledgeable fans can make an educated prediction that JDS would out-strike Cain in a striking only fight. It's clear as day breh.

Lucky punch? Get outta here with that BS. I guess JDS's career is full of lucky punches. With that type of luck, dude should play the lottery.

Cain's pressure? I agree. Cain's power? No, he's handled Cain's best punches and kept coming back. I think that's pretty well. Cain's speed? His striking speed? Not really, he couldn't handle the speed of his transitions between grappling to clinching to striking. JDS dropped Cain with an elbow in their 3rd fight, I would consider that very meaningful.

A genuinely good striker would be able to defend the takedown while effectively being able to build an offense. JDS is not able to defend the takedown and simultaneously build up a good striking offense. Therefore JDS is not at Cain's level when it comes to striking at MMA events. And the fact that JDS is getting outstruck by a WRESTLER says a lot about how good he is at what he's supposed to be a specialist at.

In a strictly striking battle Cain would have his combinations, his pressure, his power, his speed, and JDS would be smothered against the ropes/cage until he was out on his feet. He would then suffer the same fate that he suffered in their MMA fights. How do I know? JDS stuffed his takedowns and most of Cain's effective offense came off of his feet anyway. Therefore Cain's pressure and all the other stuff he's clearly better at than JDS would carry the day.

He handled Cain's punches and kept coming back? He got knocked out, breh. Swinging away at a bunch of past their prime fighters outside of Shane Carwin isn't a convincing statement of superiority to me. Especially when you get your ass dropped by a guy who isn't even a specialist in the shyt that you are supposed to be soooo amazing in. Cain is far better because of all the things that I mentioned before and anyone who tries to say that JDS is better at anything than Cain is living in a world of denial. Doesn't matter that Cain got dropped by an elbow because Cain ended the whole fight by pure superiority.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

looks like he got it under the neck

That was a lazy ass choke that had absolutely no potential. Cain shrugged that shyt off way too easily. It's something that JDS fans like to cling to in order to think that he was in the fight until the end - which he wasn't.

 

[Screwface Exchange]

BJ Penn doesn't deserve to be in the top 10 right now. He hasn't shown elite BJJ in a while. Werdum should be above Gonzaga, Vinny, and BJ. Off the top of my head, the top 5 is 1) Jacare 2) Werdum 3) Maia and 4) Vinny (if he was still with the UFC) and the last one can be either Gonzaga, Shields, Big Nog (although overrated), or Paul Harris (if he was still with the UFC). Oh, and Roger would be 1) if he was still with the UFC.

the 5 guys i listed at first was in no particular order, sorry I shouldve stated it. I was just naming guys whose last MMA fight was in the ufc and they have either competed at well known/recognized BJJ and grappling tournments or are respected in the industry with their BJJ skills.

 

[pez]

Who is "someone?"

Wow at Cain's jaw being cracked