Essential The Official MMA Thread

[The Infamous]

it wont be up there until he matches his title defenses and moves up in weight (even if it is to be beat a brendan schaub or stefan struve) till then hes only potentially in the discussion, definitely surpassed gsp tho long since

Long since?

 

[Roman Brady]

I don't go off stats, Jon has defended his title almost as much as Silva in just 3 yearst

what does that mean exactly other than he fights at a greater frequency. Given the scarcity in legit headliners and the fact jones hasnt wasted his reign fighting in non title fights it is what it is..

, moving up for MW to LHW is not the same as moving from LHW to HW

its motherfukkers who are legit 260 up in the HW division, it's a whole different beast

true but if couture, cormier, crocop hendo, anthony johnson and wandi (of all ppl) could jones could to. He could easily make 225-230 lbs and compete at HW. How he fairs is another story cuz personally I think hed get wrecked with those chicken legs

 

[Master Teacher]

what does that mean exactly other than he fights at a greater frequency. Given the scarcity in legit headliners and the fact jones hasnt wasted his reign fighting in non title fights it is what it is..

true but if couture, cormier, crocop hendo and wandi (of all ppl) could jones could to. He could easily make 225-230 lbs and compete at HW. How he fairs is another story cuz personally I think hed get wrecked with those chicken legs

Cain is 241 and he's a smaller HW, Jones is a skinny dude, he will beat most of the HWs off skills alone, JDS could possible KO him

 

[The Infamous]

JDS and Cain would demolish Jones.

 

[The G.O.D II]

When did I say he was terrible, Jons never used his reach against any of those guys he named he just beat'em up because he could, only fighter fought on the outside was Rampage and he did that with kicks, body, kicks, leg kicks, the kick to the knee. Then he just steamed rolled like did everyone.

If Jon Jones knew how to use his reach he would setup a KO's, he does not pepper his opponents wth jabs like he could do to open them up with a KO, he does not throw punches over his opponent's which he could easily catch them with counters from long range, he would knock guys out like this, but he doesn't use it. Jon beats people up in the clench and ground in pound

Cormier is the best wrestler I have ever seen in the cage

If Cormier catches Jons legs he will drag him to ground or slam him, all has to do his step in once he grabs the leg and take him down

Regardless of that Cormier is going to close the distance on the jon and try to take him down, Jon will have to avoid being taken to the ground for the fight to be on it's feet to utilize his reach

if Cormier knee is a factor, Jon could very well do that if he kicks the knee earlier and limits Cormier explosiveness, but he's gonna risk being dragged to the ground in doing so

you dismiss Josh Barnett like he is some bum, he's a quality veteran with or without the roids.
Jon Jones is not manhandling Josh Barnett let alone slamming him.
Cormier best win is when He stood toe to toe with Roy Nelson , who trains at the Mayweather gym and has good hands with power

This is the exact reason why I wanted Cormier to fight Gus first to end all these conversations, instead of both of them fighting easy fights they should've fought each other so people could see how could Cormier is
and the fight would be even bigger, but UFC does not know how to build big fights.

Jon Jones is 230 tops, he even voiced is concerns on fighting heavweights who weight from 250 to 265 in the UFC, it makes a difference, Jon is fighting a guy he won't be able to physical bulldoze who is a tremendous wrestler, he's wrestling technique is leagues beyond these cats



this will be Jon Jones' hardest fight, he got caught of guard with Gus because he was baffled by how he was getting hit, because he was not used to the angles Gus would throw his punches, but he could easily remedy that in training, and I know he will beat Gus easy in their second fight. However, Cormier is very confident himself, he's not faced a fighter with supreme confidence himself who is undefeated.

Fighting is mental, Jones is mentally though he proved that against Gus even though he had doubt in his eyes when he had got cut but he gathered himself pretty quickly which was impresive, Cormier is a different breed, he's a natural winner, and his technique is high level plus he's coming down to a weight class where's going to be at advantage

That's why I say if Jon wins this fight he's the greatest of all time

Who does that in MMA outside of the Diaz Bros? Jones fought plenty of ppl at range like Evans and Machida. He only does more clinch work now because he fighting MW and Glover who is the hardest hitter at lhw. Cormier is not fighting a can, coffee maker, or a 50 year old kitten MW. IDC about Cormier's wrestling, boxing, etc. Hes not going to be able to deal with Jones reach. You still haven't properly explained to me why Cormier can do that when similar wrestlers(evans) and strikers(Machida, Belfort) haven't been able too.

 

[Roman Brady]

Cain is 241 and he's a smaller HW, Jones is a skinny dude, he will beat most of the HWs off skills alone, JDS could possible KO him

your comment is all over the map, u speak of cain's deceptive features then go on to say jones is a skinny dude but can beat most HWs? the u say jds cud "possible" KO him? come on dawg

 

[Roman Brady]

Long since?

dude is 20-0-1 as far as i'm concerned defended his title what 7 x has the most finishes and defenses in ufc history? truth be told he was already encroaching on gsp's space when he beat hashad

 

[Master Teacher]

Who does that in MMA outside of the Diaz Bros? Jones fought plenty of ppl at range like Evans and Machida. He only does more clinch work now because he fighting MW and Glover who is the hardest hitter at lhw. Cormier is not fighting a can, coffee maker, or a 50 year old kitten MW. IDC about Cormier's wrestling, boxing, etc. Hes not going to be able to deal with Jones reach. You still haven't properly explained to me why Cormier can do that when similar wrestlers(evans) and strikers(Machida, Belfort) haven't been able too.

Jones beat up Machida in the inside and up against the cage, he only used his reach when he was running when Machida tagged him that one time and he extended his arm as he was retreating
He beat Machida up in close range

Evans dumb ass wanted to play Mercy with him, Jon didn't need his reach against those guys because he just physically imposed himself over them he didn't need to get them at a distance
He fukked up Evans up with SHORT ELBOWS

Rashad is not Cormier's league with the wrestling this what you don't understand but you will see

Jones could manhandle Rashad and Machida he can't do that with Cormier, he can't, Cormier is not only stronger he was a way better technique. The man is an Olympic athlete

You still haven't explained how Jones reach is gonna be a factor, I'm talking about his arm length, he does not use this shyt outside putting his hand is people's face because the stand their let him

He kept Rampage at a distance because he didn't want to KO'd, but eventually he took him down and beat him up too

Rashard is not strong enough or skilled enough to shoot on Jon, their wrestling canceled each other other, Cormier is a whole different story, Rashard never rag dolled heayweights when he fought up there, he used his quickness to win on points against non-contenders

Belfort damn near Submitted Jon Jones what are you talking about, he beat up Belfort because he could manhandled him like everybody else, he can't do that to Cormier

Jones has never faced anyone like Cormier ever before, that's why it his biggest challenge, I'm interested to see how he deal with it

 

[Master Teacher]

your comment is all over the map, u speak of cain's deceptive features then go on to say jones is a skinny dude but can beat most HWs? the u say jds cud "possible" KO him? come on dawg

Cain doesn't have deceptive features, his a solid 241, Jon Jones is 230 soaking wet

THE HW division does not have that much talent, but if he fighting championship contenders top 3 guys he's gonna have uphill battle

 

[Roman Brady]

Rashad is not Cormier's league with the wrestling this what you don't understand but you will see

Jones could manhandle Rashad and Machida he can't do that with Cormier, he can't, Cormier is not only stronger he was a way better technique. The man is an Olympic athlete

yeah a lot of cats here are trying to make some comparison between these 2 the only thing thats similar is that they are both compact hw/lhw. As far as wrestling goes its an insult to cormier to make any parrelell. Rashad couldnt even take nog down. hell he couldnt even keep silva down once he got him there

 

[The Infamous]

has the most finishes and defenses in ufc history?

No and no.

truth be told he was already encroaching on gsp's space when he beat hashad

Not even close. That was his 3rd title defence.

 

[Roman Brady]

Cain doesn't have deceptive features, his a solid 241, Jon Jones is 230 soaking wet

THE HW division does not have that much talent, but if he fighting championship contenders top 3 guys he's gonna have uphill battle

of course he does, when you see him in the cage does he look like a stereotypical HW?

 

[Roman Brady]

No and no.

So who has the most sub finishes and defenses at lhw then

Not even close. That was his 3rd title defence.

u are gettin held up on defenses, his dismantling of those 4 lhws who were so lauded (especially given how the division was before he came up) was more impressive then gsp's stoppages against bloated lightweights and blue collar like decisions ie kos x2, dan hardy and shields

 

[wake&bake]

My two cents on comparing Silva/Bones resume's

Anderson's best three wins:

Spoiler

Sonnen I - Anderson had finished 9 of his 11 opponents in the UFC up to this point. Spectacular KO's (Forrest, Irvin), brutal Muy Thai knees (Leben, Franklin), and submissions (Hendo, Luter).This fight was announced and my first reaction was Chael Sonnen? Another opponent for Anderson to walk though? But Chael gets on the microphone and is the PERFECT mouthpiece. He was your classic wrestling heel cutting promo's :evilvince: The build up to this fight was GOAT. I mean I don't think anyone expected Chael to win, but his mouth made the fight one you wanted to watch. We've never seen Anderson flat on his back for the WHOLE fight before. Chael truly dominated the whole fight up until the finish. Anderson's triangle sub was a complete shock. Chael was smothering Anderson for 4 and a half rounds and than gets caught. He's squirming, it looks like he's almost going to escape! Than the ref runs in and calls the fight. WHAT HAPPENED? DID HE TAP? Replay comes on, and YES! HE TAPPED! Great win. One of, if not the most dramatic victory in a UFC Title fight. The true heart of a champion showed by Anderson.

Vitor - Anderson's first fight after Chael. A clash of the titans match up. Not only for the UFC Middlewight strap but for the Unofficial Undisputed People's Champ of Brazil Anderson's front kick finish inspired a whole flock of fighters to add that technique into there repertoire. IMO the GOAT finish in a UFC Championship fight.

Sonnen II - The BEEF The first fight's drama. Chael talking that smack again The HYPE. Anderson comes out and finishes Chael QUICKLY. I have this ranked 3rd because of the backstory, the hype, the buildup. It was the perfect way to end the rivalry.

Jones best three wins:

Spoiler

Lyoto - The most skilled opponent between all of Jones/Silva's opponents. Although Lyoto should have been at MW his whole career, this is one of Jones most solid wins. A true test of his greatness. Not only finishes Lyoto, but chokes him unconscious with a filthy standing guillotine

Vitor - Another guy who was fighting up a weight class. For the first time in his career Jones was in trouble Vitor was so close, almost forcing Jones to tap, having him deep in an arm bar. Not only did Jones survive the deep submission attempt, he went on to submit Vitor himself with an Americana! Jones towered over Vitor but his heart and the finish were spectacular.

Gustafsson - A WAR! Fighting a true LHW. Gustafsson was a huge underdog and perhaps Jones underestimated the Swede and didn't gameplan like he should have. But late in the fight when Bones needed to win rounds, he showed the heart of a champion. This is by far his most impressive win and IMO the GOAT UFC Title fight. It's a shame we aren't going to see the rematch next :maddana:

So who's better?

Spoiler

There's no comparison when deciding who has fought tougher opponents, it's clearly Jones. But his size advantage has to be considered. Most of his opponents are servery out matched when it comes to height/reach/length (which is not Bones fault). What also needs to be considered is the way Anderson finished his opponents. A spectacle in the octagon no matter who was on the other side (unless you're Damian Maia). Bones is young and has a lot of fighting left in the tank and who's to say Bones has even reached his prime yet (scary thought). Bones is also fighting guys who are more technically advanced due to the way MMA has been evolving. I don't think you can argue that Jones isn't the more all-around fighter and would most likely defeat Anderson if you could match them up prime vs prime. With that said, I would much rather watch prime Anderson Silva in the octagon any day over a current Jon Jones. So who's really the GOAT? :smugdana:

 

[The G.O.D II]

Jones beat up Machida in the inside and up against the cage, he only used his reach when he was running when Machida tagged him that one time and he extended his arm as he was retreating
He beat Machida up in close range

Evans dumb ass wanted to play Mercy with him, Jon didn't need his reach against those guys because he just physically imposed himself over them he didn't need to get them at a distance
He fukked up Evans up with SHORT ELBOWS

Rashad is not Cormier's league with the wrestling this what you don't understand but you will see

Jones could manhandle Rashad and Machida he can't do that with Cormier, he can't, Cormier is not only stronger he was a way better technique. The man is an Olympic athlete

You still haven't explained how Jones reach is gonna be a factor, I'm talking about his arm length, he does not use this shyt outside putting his hand is people's face because the stand their let him

He kept Rampage at a distance because he didn't want to KO'd, but eventually he took him down and beat him up too

Rashard is not strong enough or skilled enough to shoot on Jon, their wrestling canceled each other other, Cormier is a whole different story, Rashard never rag dolled heayweights when he fought up there, he used his quickness to win on points against non-contenders

Belfort damn near Submitted Jon Jones what are you talking about, he beat up Belfort because he could manhandled him like everybody else, he can't do that to Cormier

Jones has never faced anyone like Cormier ever before, that's why it his biggest challenge, I'm interested to see how he deal with it

You can interpret it any way you want, the fact of the matter is Jones use his reach to keep those guys at bay. Esp Evans. He was able to land all types of kicks and jabs on Evans. Evans may not have the credentials Cormier has, but he has demonstrated more impressive wrestling so far then Cormier. You keep mentioning ragdolling but Cormier has only truly done that with Barnett(who he weighed just as much btw) and 195 franklinweight Hendo. Meanwhile, Evans has dominated solid wrestlers like Davis and Sonnen. But not against Jones. I just don't see Cormier making it past Jones reach.