The real reason why LL didn't take his verse off and got at Canibus...

[Canada Goose]

Redman and MC Lyte are probably FAR better rappity rappers than Pac, Ice Cube, or Chuck D were. Sometimes talent is all you need.

We heard everyone's effort, besides Nas, and it was not a clean sweep. You even said it was on par with what Pac was doing, but in the same breath you say he can't beat rappers in a battle?

Styles was killing those Hev E Components mixtapes, I can't think of anything memorable from Kiss and Sheek before '99. Lox would have been a non factor, and these guys were getting served by Beans if I remember correctly. Beans was battling 3 crews at once with no breather.

What made Hit em Up so great is how brutally disrespectful it was, Pac's energy, etc, not because it was some technical masterpiece.


As for against all odds, the backstory, being that Pac called out real street dudes and it was more than a rap battle, plus the production/dark mood of the song is what made Against all odds so great.


Against all odds had the listener feeling like Pac was really ready for war


I will admit, that first verse on Against all odds was dope from a battle rap perspective, but still, I just can't see Pac being able to hold his own in a battle with damn near the entire NYC Hip Hop scene at the time, espically as they all rapped better than him.

 

[jadillac]

I'm a Pac fan, but

NO rapper was scared of Pac on wax, its crazy that Pac that challenged Nas, Mobb Deep, Biggie, Jay Z in their prime, but TBH I honestly think he was biting off more then he could chew going at all those nikkas on wax at once, NY would have easily won a rap battle against Pac.

I get what ur saying, but against Pac it wouldn't have been about a "rap battle" of punchlines, or an MC challenge.

Pac would definitely hold his own b/c he'd just be spitting raw, real lyrics based on his reasons for not liking these dudes. "Hit Em Up" was just a straight up raw record.

 

[Why-Fi]

What made Hit em Up so great is how brutally disrespectful it was, Pac's energy, etc, not because it was some technical masterpiece.


As for against all odds, the backstory, being that Pac called out real street dudes and it was more than a rap battle, plus the production/dark mood of the song is what made Against all odds so great.


Against all odds had the listener feeling like Pac was really ready for war


I will admit, that first verse on Against all odds was dope from a battle rap perspective, but still, I just can't see Pac being able to hold his own in a battle with damn near the entire NYC Hip Hop scene at the time, espically as they all rapped better than him.

against all odds...that song is truly in a class by itself.

 

[Majestic Pape]

I never understood why LL took that line personal. But damn @ LL going at a prime Canibus.

A lesser emcee would have seen this as a bad idea.



He couldn't get another major deal, but he put out good music for a 5 year span.

LL is a VERY sensitive person. He's just one of those ultracompetitive type people that take ANY slight or perceived slight to the heart, like Michael Jordan or somebody.

I remember Aries Spears talking about how LL was a big fan of his impersonations of rappers like DMX and Jay-Z, but got pissed when Aries did an impersonation of him.

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

15th anniversary of this all-time classic battle. i remember when this was going down in spring '98 like it was yesterday. that's how great it was.

dope thread.

yea, all those other cannibus lines seemed like they were directed towards LL as well. i just never put much thought to it until now. DOPE THREAD.

Yes, that same Pac. Drop a gem on them and Long Kiss goodnight was on par with those diss songs Pac dropped, lets be honest here, from a technical perspective, Biggie and Prodigy are FAR better rappity rappers than Pac was.

As we saw with Stillmatic freestyle, Nas can put in work in a rap battle as well, Pac had no chance.

A battle didn't really get to take off, and if did, Pac wouldn't have had a chance of winning


at Pac outmatching Sheek and Jada in 96, they was dope rappers from the jump, they had dope verses on "Last Day".


It would have ended up like the G Unit - LOX battle back in 05, which the LOX won by a landslide.


Pac was not no super rapper, hes not even a elite lyricist so how was he gonna beat top tier rappers in a rap battle?


There is many great things about Pac's music, but dude was not built for that battle life.

"long kiss goodnight" and "drop a gem on em" are NOT on par with those pac records.

lol @ nas. come on money. pac would've trashed him worst than dipset & state property did.

lol @ comparing 2pac to g-unit.

also, pac wasn't alone in the battle. he didn't even have the best verse on "hit em up". we gonna act like the outlawz didn't exist? plus, if things got out of hand, im sure there would be a lot of west coast rappers that would've stepped up on pac's behalf.

 

[Oroko Saki]

Much respect to LL for being willing to battle anyone and not dodge other rappers like ___-_

 

[Why-Fi]

Much respect to LL for being willing to battle anyone and not dodge other rappers like ___-_

LL wouldve handed common's own ass to him

 

[Canada Goose]

15th anniversary of this all-time classic battle. i remember when this was going down in spring '98 like it was yesterday. that's how great it was.

dope thread.

yea, all those other cannibus lines seemed like they were directed towards LL as well. i just never put much thought to it until now. DOPE THREAD.



"long kiss goodnight" and "drop a gem on em" are NOT on par with those pac records.

lol @ nas. come on money. pac would've trashed him worst than dipset & state property did.

lol @ comparing 2pac to g-unit.

also, pac wasn't alone in the battle. he didn't even have the best verse on "hit em up". we gonna act like the outlawz didn't exist? plus, if things got out of hand, im sure there would be a lot of west coast rappers that would've stepped up on pac's behalf.

Nas ignored those Dipset/SP dudes for the most part, I'm not sure why he didn't respond to them You're acting as if Nas gave SP/Dipset the time of day and responded back with battle songs of his own, which he didn't. I could understand if he responded back and SP/Dipset still gave him that work and won the battle, but that wasn't the case.



Back then, west coast was compared to NYC, other than Ice Cube, who on the west was messing with NYC in 96? That's the west coast GOAT rappity rapper, he would had to jump in for the west coast to have any sort of hope of winning that battle.

Biggie/Nas/Jay/Prodigy are far better rappers than E40, DJ Quik and them.

E40 sent GOONS to check Biggie for calling him wack, rather than keep it Hip Hop and grab a pen and a pad and son him on wax, you expect me to believe this dude could have helped the west coast in the rap battle?

Face it, on wax the east coast would have gave the west coast that work

 

[omnifax]

I heard the phone conversation between them when Canibus posted it on IUMA

In a nutshell:
Canibus told him...breh, I didn't mean anything by it
LL said, ok just take the part about borrowing the mic and noone will be the wiser. He says my verse just sounds like a regular verse without context

Canibus said you right L. ok will do i got you

Then Canibus turned right around and released a response anyway

Thats why Canibus is a running joke today. Even though people didnt like his first joint (I did), he could have built a nice career off some singles. Happens all time...but he did a dummy move and got L's blackballs

I remember canibus talking about on that website he had years ago back when I still had a 56k internet connection. From what I understood he said ll offered to change some stuff about his verse so people wouldn't think he was going at him in exchange for him taking out that line about the mic. Canibus said he agreed and changed the verse up soon after he talked to ll and then when the song is released ll's verse is the same diss going at him and thats when he decided to make second round k.o. Its been a long time since I've listened to that and my memory is a little fuzzy but that's how canibus originally said it went down.

 

[Why-Fi]

I remember canibus talking about on that website he had years ago back when I still had a 56k internet connection. From what I understood he said ll offered to change some stuff about his verse so people wouldn't think he was going at him in exchange for him taking out that line about the mic. Canibus said he agreed and changed the verse up soon after he talked to ll and then when the song is released ll's verse is the same diss going at him and thats when he decided to make second round k.o. Its been a long time since I've listened to that and my memory is a little fuzzy but that's how canibus originally said it went down.

yes that is what canibus said, but he posted the actual conversation. LL said remove your lines and there is no context. he explicitly said - ill just keep my verse nobody will know shyt. canibus agreed to it. then shyt on L anyway

 

[jilla82]

against all odds...that song is truly in a class by itself.

the fact that 50 only had to change the names in the song to fit his beef shows you how raw that song was.

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

Nas ignored those Dipset/SP dudes for the most part, I'm not sure why he didn't respond to them You're acting as if Nas gave SP/Dipset the time of day and responded back with battle songs of his own, which he didn't. I could understand if he responded back and SP/Dipset still gave him that work and won the battle, but that wasn't the case.



Back then, west coast was compared to NYC, other than Ice Cube, who on the west was messing with NYC in 96? That's the west coast GOAT rappity rapper, he would had to jump in for the west coast to have any sort of hope of winning that battle.

Biggie/Nas/Jay/Prodigy are far better rappers than E40, DJ Quik and them.

E40 sent GOONS to check Biggie for calling him wack, rather than keep it Hip Hop and grab a pen and a pad and son him on wax, you expect me to believe this dude could have helped the west coast in the rap battle?

Face it, on wax the east coast would have gave the west coast that work

nas wanted no parts of dipset or state p. they would've ate that dude alive. THIS IS WHAT THEY DO. hes not of that caliber when it comes to battling.

dj quik is a better battle rapper than all those names that you just mentioned.

to my knowledge, I don't know e-40 to be on no battle rap chit. biggie called him wack, and he handled it his way. im not condoning but I understand.

BUT HERES THE THING, how you gonna call out e-40? meanwhile, jay-z is out here putting money on peoples' heads because he doesn't want to lose a battle......battles that he started. same with prodigy sending the goons at max b, and getting Saigon jumped.........and unlike e-40, these guys are supposed to be rappity-rappers. oh, and what about biggie trying to get a whole coast to help him diss 2pac because he knew he had no chance going head-up?

i'll let a west coast poster handle the rest of this.

 

[head shots101]

That mistake done his whole carrer

 

[Still Benefited]

Yes, that same Pac. Drop a gem on them and Long Kiss goodnight was on par with those diss songs Pac dropped, lets be honest here, from a technical perspective, Biggie and Prodigy are FAR better rappity rappers than Pac was.

As we saw with Stillmatic freestyle, Nas can put in work in a rap battle as well, Pac had no chance.

A battle didn't really get to take off, and if did, Pac wouldn't have had a chance of winning


at Pac outmatching Sheek and Jada in 96, they was dope rappers from the jump, they had dope verses on "Last Day".


It would have ended up like the G Unit - LOX battle back in 05, which the LOX won by a landslide.


Pac was not no super rapper, hes not even a elite lyricist so how was he gonna beat top tier rappers in a rap battle?


There is many great things about Pac's music, but dude was not built for that battle life.

I like ur gunit comparison,but u talkin bout gunit in 05,talk about if it wuz grodt era 50 by himself beefin with the lox....u talkin on strictly a technical level is a mistake,look at the canibus LL battle....Canibus on a technical level u would say got LL and probaly would have 9 times outta 10...but at that time LL had the underdog thing goin for em where fans were rootin for em to come back swingin.

Pac in 96 had the streets and wuz bigger than everybody he wuz battlin outside biggie bein level footing....BUT Pac still managed to have the underdog thing goin for himself that made fans root for em9n top of that my nikka wuz funny and spit sum of the rawest shyt ever heard in hiphop....underdog always got the edge in battles I feel....I aways say 50's biggest mistake wuz bein so quick to abandon his underdog position for the tyrant position,he wuz in the same position Pac wuz,all the success while still maintaining underdog status and that's a good position to be in....come 2005 lox wuz the underdogs fans were rooting for,advantage LoX.



Back to canibus tho,I remember the phone convo where LL wuz talkin to em like he wuz his son lol.....and he pretty much wuz groveling tellin LL how much he respected em,and LL said he would clear it up and for canibus just not to respond....I don't know how much time passed between that convo and Canibus responding though.....wuz LL in no rush to clear up the fact there wuz no beef and it wuz just a misundestanding becuz he wuz buzzin off that shyt and his fans wuz luvin the fact he took a shot at Canibus.?I don't know if he ever woulda cleared it up,and maybe just wuz figurin Canibus respect for him,and the fact dissin LL mightve been seen as a sin would've kept canibus from makin a diss record.

 

[Awesome Wells]

For a so-called smart rapper, Canibus has made some stupid decisions in his career.

This.

And it's hilarious that we're still talkin' LL and Canibus in 2013. LOL!!