The "White Helmets" of Syria

FAH1223

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According to Iran/Russia/Syrian Gov and their allied media, the entire rebel movement was CIA, ISIS is CIA, Assad didn't massacre his civilians that was a hoax, the chem weapons attack was actually the rebels/CIA and so forth. It's as if Assad to them is a flawless figure. I have yet to hear any of them reprimand the Syrian Gov for literally anything. At least those supporting the rebels are critical of them, what criticism can you find from Press TV or RT or any of them about Assad? Even his murderous father?

You are right. Assad and his father are criminals. But the coverage where we live is so tilted to the rebels. Everything is reported on rebel side by mainstream media. The other side, the many people who still support the government aren't highlighted at all. Also, most of Assad's army are Sunni Muslims. The higher rank you go, its obviously his Alawi allies at the top, I get that.

The CIA DID train the rebels in Jordan in 2010. They are helping supply them with all this anti-air missiles at the border and obviously at the Turkish border.

Assad is the reason this became a sectarian war. But what about the present, Does anyone have a solution to the problem?

Prior to 2012, I was a supporter of the FSA. The reasons were because I considered it offensive that a non-muslim (Alawi) rule a Muslim nation.

The FSA seemed genuine, even with western support, and till 2012 there was a semblance or even an illusion of unity of command
in the militia. The White Helmets are a part of this support. There's no denying it bro.

Then Assad helped unleash the psychos from prison, so they can attack the FSA, and he cooperated with the shaytan ISIS, helping them sell oil and getting a cut of the profits. The problem is that Assad DID finish off the FSA, there is no FSA today it is an insignificant group. Their supplies get taken over by Al-Nusra and Ahrar Al-Sham. In these White Helmet videos, there are guys who were in those Nusra videos where they beheaded the Palestinian kid a few weeks ago :snoop:

Laakin, today its a choice between Assad vs. Al-Nusra and its affiliates. Outside of the core Baathist group in Mosul the rest of ISIS are a herd of wild non-sentient animals from Central Asia, Western China, Somalia, North Africa, USA/EU etc.

As an outsider, i should only support the side that can bring peace and stability to the country. The only side that has a road map for peace. The Assad Regime. :yeshrug:

The Russians and Iranians have forced him to acknowledge that there cannot be a return to dictatorship, there will be sharing of power and elections, and Assad will have to step down.

The problem is that the other side believes in total victory and see no need for negotiations, even when they are close to defeat themselves. The Saudi Foreign Minister embodies this with his comments about the pathway to peace. He just wants to keep supplying these groups.

Aleppo will continue to be encircled, the supply lines in the north are almost gone, the Jordanians have been intimidated and only supply enough to show their masters that they are obeying orders, but its a trickle compared to 6 months ago, and not nearly enough.

The supply of jihadis is shrinking rapidly, the supply of gas/deisel/ and ammo is critical. Without the Turkish supply highway all those " accidental airdrops" from the Americans cannot save the rebels.

Speaking of the chlorine attacks... it seems these happen once the government actually makes gains somewhere. There's also this.

 

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But the rebellion is largely Syrian nationals... that's an objective fact from wikipedia. There are thousands of questionable foreigners, most of them are ISIS now. But for someone whose so critical of governments in general, how can you side with an oppressive government that dropped barrel bombs on civilians on video?

:manny: Im on the side of the people who are running away from their homes ...Assad is a plutocratic douchebag..no argument but he would have given in and reformed in a peaceful manner eventually..the writing was on the wall.
Hillary and her IS crew have only made him dig in even further with their violent coup and any hope for peaceful civil reform is gone....where do you really see this ending up other than balkanization and decades of simmering low level conflicts.
There were thousands of Libyans who wanted Ghadaffi gone too but i bet if you ask them how they feel about the rebellion now you'd get a different answer than you expect.
 

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You are right. Assad and his father are criminals. But the coverage where we live is so tilted to the rebels. Everything is reported on rebel side by mainstream media. The other side, the many people who still support the government aren't highlighted at all. Also, most of Assad's army are Sunni Muslims. The higher rank you go, its obviously his Alawi allies at the top, I get that.

The CIA DID train the rebels in Jordan in 2010. They are helping supply them with all this anti-air missiles at the border and obviously at the Turkish border.

Assad is the reason this became a sectarian war. But what about the present, Does anyone have a solution to the problem?

Prior to 2012, I was a supporter of the FSA. The reasons were because I considered it offensive that a non-muslim (Alawi) rule a Muslim nation.

The FSA seemed genuine, even with western support, and till 2012 there was a semblance or even an illusion of unity of command
in the militia. The White Helmets are a part of this support. There's no denying it bro.

Then Assad helped unleash the psychos from prison, so they can attack the FSA, and he cooperated with the shaytan ISIS, helping them sell oil and getting a cut of the profits. The problem is that Assad DID finish off the FSA, there is no FSA today it is an insignificant group. Their supplies get taken over by Al-Nusra and Ahrar Al-Sham. In these White Helmet videos, there are guys who were in those Nusra videos where they beheaded the Palestinian kid a few weeks ago :snoop:

Laakin, today its a choice between Assad vs. Al-Nusra and its affiliates. Outside of the core Baathist group in Mosul the rest of ISIS are a herd of wild non-sentient animals from Central Asia, Western China, Somalia, North Africa, USA/EU etc.

As an outsider, i should only support the side that can bring peace and stability to the country. The only side that has a road map for peace. The Assad Regime. :yeshrug:

The Russians and Iranians have forced him to acknowledge that there cannot be a return to dictatorship, there will be sharing of power and elections, and Assad will have to step down.

The problem is that the other side believes in total victory and see no need for negotiations, even when they are close to defeat themselves. The Saudi Foreign Minister embodies this with his comments about the pathway to peace. He just wants to keep supplying these groups.

Aleppo will continue to be encircled, the supply lines in the north are almost gone, the Jordanians have been intimidated and only supply enough to show their masters that they are obeying orders, but its a trickle compared to 6 months ago, and not nearly enough.

The supply of jihadis is shrinking rapidly, the supply of gas/deisel/ and ammo is critical. Without the Turkish supply highway all those " accidental airdrops" from the Americans cannot save the rebels.

Speaking of the chlorine attacks... it seems these happen once the government actually makes gains somewhere. There's also this.



I agree with most of this but let me stop you in a few key points.

The FSA is not finished off. The old FSA is gone but there are FSA divisions that are fighting hard against Assad and his soldiers. The radical groups are largely the strongest and in charge but there is still an FSA. There is also a huge difference between Ahrar al Sham and Al Nusra or whatever they're calling themselves today, and you should know this as an educated Muslim. Ahrar al Sham is a very conservative salafist organization but hardly a salafist jihadist group like Al Nusra, and they could be concievably introduced into a rebel government. That being said there will be no rebel government as Aleppo as you said has been encircled.

The problem with the Assad regime winning is that they will never actually win. Even if they control the entire country, the army is so depleted and the regime so hated that it will be destabilized and a group like ISIS, if not ISIS themselves will have further control as the only alternative. There must be a viable alternative to Assad for the people that isn't IS

In Iraq, the only viable alternative to the hated Maliki regime for Sunni's was and is IS, so it was easy for them to support IS. The Assad government has lost all its legitimacy through its war crimes and torture prisons.
 
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If we have no agreed upon objective sources of information, how can we ever discuss the established facts? That's the problem we're going to have. If you and I both agree that A.I. and HRW are right about Israel's war crimes in Gaza, why are they suddenly wrong in other cases? I understand your perspective but we need to think of some objective sources before we can go in depth.

Im just pointing it out so you know. Not saying they are 100% wrong, however their bias leans towards who is paying them.
 
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But the rebellion is largely Syrian nationals... that's an objective fact from wikipedia. There are thousands of questionable foreigners, most of them are ISIS now. But for someone whose so critical of governments in general, how can you side with an oppressive government that dropped barrel bombs on civilians on video?

1.This has been false since the beginning
2. Civilians or Rebels...how do you clarify?
 

FAH1223

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I agree with most of this but let me stop you in a few key points.

The FSA is not finished off. The old FSA is gone but there are FSA divisions that are fighting hard against Assad and his soldiers. The radical groups are largely the strongest and in charge but there is still an FSA. There is also a huge difference between Ahrar al Sham and Al Nusra or whatever they're calling themselves today, and you should know this as an educated Muslim. Ahrar al Sham is a very conservative salafist organization but hardly a salafist jihadist group like Al Nusra, and they could be concievably introduced into a rebel government. That being said there will be no rebel government as Aleppo as you said has been encircled.

The problem with the Assad regime winning is that they will never actually win. Even if they control the entire country, the army is so depleted and the regime so hated that it will be destabilized and a group like ISIS, if not ISIS themselves will have further control as the only alternative. There must be a viable alternative to Assad for the people that isn't IS

In Iraq, the only viable alternative to the hated Maliki regime for Sunni's was and is IS, so it was easy for them to support IS. The Assad government has lost all its legitimacy through its war crimes and torture prisons.

That's why the Russians have been saying there has to be a transition political process.

Structures of state need to stay in tact and then a new coalition governing can reform it.

Syria is basically another Somalia but it's not at the 1991 Somali stage yet cause the government still has an army and controls the capital.
 

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That's why the Russians have been saying there has to be a transition political process.

Structures of state need to stay in tact and then a new coalition governing can reform it.

Syria is basically another Somalia but it's not at the 1991 Somali stage yet cause the government still has an army and controls the capital.

The Russians don't actually care about that though. But lets say I'm not in their minds. That's not a fair statement... lets just say they truly believe in a transitional coalition government... do you believe they will allow a transitional government to form with people who are going to hold Russia account for their bombing of Syria? Or if not even that, will they allow a government that is going to refuse the billions of dollars in Arms contracts? Or any type of truly autonomous government?
 

FAH1223

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The Russians don't actually care about that though. But lets say I'm not in their minds. That's not a fair statement... lets just say they truly believe in a transitional coalition government... do you believe they will allow a transitional government to form with people who are going to hold Russia account for their bombing of Syria? Or if not even that, will they allow a government that is going to refuse the billions of dollars in Arms contracts? Or any type of truly autonomous government?

Of course not. Tartus is their only naval base in the region. And they recently upgraded it.

But that's part of the state. Syria isn't going to be a vassal state of the US.

But it's possible it won't be as bad as Bashar and his father :manny:
 
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That's the point... you have to ask yourself what figures you're going to accept in the argument

It's not about figures but facts.

1. 1957
Macmillan backed Syria assassination plot

The plan called for funding of a "Free Syria Committee", and the arming of "political factions with paramilitary or other actionist capabilities" within Syria. The CIA and MI6 would instigate internal uprisings, for instance by the Druze in the south, help to free political prisoners held in the Mezze prison, and stir up the Muslim Brotherhood in Damascus.
The planners envisaged replacing the Ba'ath/Communist regime with one that was firmly anti-Soviet, but they conceded that this would not be popular and "would probably need to rely first upon repressive measures and arbitrary exercise of power".



2. General Wesley Clark stated in interview about invading 9 countries in 5 years. Who is on the list?...Syria. It's premeditated.

3. 2007 West Point CounterTerrorism Center report on Iraq's Al-Qeada insurgence, they pointed out that fighters from Syria had ties to Al-Q and terrorist links in certain cities/towns. The very cities and towns during the 2011 Uprising just so happened to be where these fighters came from.

4. April 2011.....
US 'funded Syria opposition groups'
 
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