This is precisely why Kendrick will be considered a joke 10 years from now

[SirBiatch]

I get what youre sayin but its still premature

Kendrick is still the best mainstream rapper of his generation

As ludicrous as that sounds to me, I wish there was more discussion around that. Maybe I missed it by why aren't more outlets saying, "yo Kendrick is obviously the best in this generation because of a, b, c d. and I dare another new school rapper to say otherwise." Maybe they're afraid that other new school nikkas will show just how irrelevant Kendrick is

Instead they're skipping a step (implying that it's a given that Duckie is the best) and going straight to "is he GOAT? He out-rhymed Pac" shyt is fukking weird.

 

[FeloniousMonk]

You don't see the irony of you bringing up drake?

Its all in perspective with dealing with the OP..again..why do you think the thread was made about K.Dot being a joke 10 years from now?

 

[onlylno]

Tochi Osuji
19 April 2014 ·

My first time hearing Illmatic and other reflections
Music lovers have that song/album that means a ton to them. Illmatic, among other albums, means a lot to me. Illmatic sits on top though. Hearing that album for the first time changed how I listen to hip hop, period.



It's 2003. Summertime. I'm transitioning from 1st to 2nd year university. I'd been a hip hop fan since 1998. I heard It Was Written b...ack in 1998. And I remember thinking: "wow, this Nas guy can write his ass off. (And this was back then when CDs came with rhyme booklets) The songs on here are mostly slow and boring, but does all rap look this well on the page when written down?" I loved "The Message" (A thug changes, and love changes...hit me hard back then). Then I heard "Nas Is Like" a year later and was transported to another planet. I must have heard that song a thousand times back in 1999. At that moment, I was forever a DJ Premier fan. So I looked for anything Nas/DJ Premier. Heard "NY State of Mind" and really liked it.



Fast forward back to 2003. My boy Gafar's telling me about hip hop albums I should hear. He mentions Illmatic. The joke is, I'd never even heard of Illmatic. I thought It Was Written was Nas's first album, lol. Gafar says, "you'll like it. It's really street. Just real."



So I take the CD and give it a listen. And this is what I remember



1. Intro - "meh. This is boring. Subways, dudes talking about random stuff (I didn't know anything about Wild Style at the time, forgive me). Skip."



2. NY State of Mind - "ohh! I've heard this song before! What a great tune! So it's off this album? Hmm... the scratching at the end is amazing! Na-na-na-nasty nas!!"



3. Life's A bytch - "This is too slow and kinda boring. Nice line about the lotto though."



4. World is Yours - "Hmm... I like this. Kinda chill, not too boring. Did Premier do this? (I was thrown off by the scratching, a Premier trademark. Turns out Pete Rock did it).



5. Halftime - "oh this is my shyt! [Note: Halftime is the first time I'm actually feeling a song on here, for real]. The beat's killer. Catchy. Upbeat. [Then the Malcolm X line comes in] whoaa! shyt! "More kicks than a baby's stomach". whoaaa. Let's start this track again. [I heard Halftime 3 times before deciding to move on].



6. Memory Lane - "ugh. This beat sucks! What's with the church-like voices? This shyt is way too slow. SKIP [that's right - I didn't even give the song a chance]"



7. One Love - "meh. Beat's weird and too low key. What the fukk is he rhyming on? SKIP"



8. One Time 4 Your Mind - "I'm kinda feeling this. Beat's slow and a little boring but Nas is really killing it. Some of the best lines on this CD so far are here. "Shot my way out my mom dukes", "what up nikkas, it's Nasty the villain!" "I hold a Mac-11, and attack a reverend, I contact eleven Ls and MAX IN HEAVEN" (That was, and still is, MY shyt!)



9. Represent - "ugh. this is boring. It's just some guys shouting Represent over and over again. SKIP"



10. It Aint Hard To Tell - "Holy shyt...."



It Aint Hard To Tell hit me like a ton of rocks. Right away it threw me back to my childhood days. Hearing the SWV "Right Here" song my mom used to love playing over and over again. And I hadn't heard that song in a decade, but I always loved it as a kid. Something about that MJ melody is just timeless. It reminded me of everything I loved about being a little kid in Saudi. Playing in haunted houses with my friends, playing tag in the dark, etc.



When the song ended and the CD popped out, I popped it back in. And this time, I relaxed and paid attention.



Let's just say that It Aint Hard To Tell changed my perspective on hip hop, period. And this is coming from a guy who had been listening to hip hop seriously since 1998.



Before hearing Illmatic, the album I was absolutely in love with was "Get Rich and Die Tryin" (still a great album). Looking back, I realize that getting into hip hop in '98 was good but hip hop was becoming quite poppy. I was right there as a listener when Neptunes & Timbaland started taking off and dominating the shyt out of everything. And radio started moving toward one kind of sound. The point is, I wasn't looking for nuance in records. Just whatever was catchy. I was collecting the hottest singles at the time. Whatever was mainstream in rap, I liked. I still heard Gang Starr, Mos Def/Rawkus stuff like that but only their singles because they made radio (and I loved the singles I heard). I never bothered to look into the albums because I wasn't really looking for anything deeper.



I wasn't an album listener. It was "what's hot? What's simple and catchy? what can I easily dance to?"



Illmatic (and Samurai Champloo as well, but that's another story) made me pay attention to ATMOSPHERE in hip hop. Nuance. Meaning. Photographic memory. Melodies that evoke something deeper and more passionate. There's a certain attention to atmosphere that older rap has that doesn't exist at all in modern mainstream rap. And it makes it really hard for seasoned fans to listen to. New beats don't evoke a vibe or a meaning or something that gets really deep into you. Nobody's really trying to capture an environment/feeling in musical form, unless it's the club (which is boring).



The production on Illmatic is perfect. Every single beat on there will never get old. They're all beautiful in their own way. Strangely enough, Nas was going through all this shyt when he recorded Illmatic. And Illmatic has to be one of the most peaceful hip hop albums I've ever heard. Maybe people with immense struggles who are actively trying to deal with them are always looking for some sort of peace. I wonder...



Illmatic made me go back and catch up on all the great hip hop I had missed.



On lonely nights in Montreal, "The World is Yours" held me down like a muhfukka! And one day, I happened to give Memory Lane another chance and had a similar "It Aint Hard To Tell" experience.



I love every one of those songs. I've probably bought the album 4 or 5 times. "Lost" it two times. "Borrowed" from me and never returned.



It's just one of those albums.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Just watched that video.

Some of the arguments were trash tbh. Better lyricist than Pac?

But Kendrick's discog right now is pretty faultless imo. If he continues on this trend, how can he eventually not enter the discussion. Premature right now but very possible in a few years.

 

[Techniec]

As ludicrous as that sounds to me, I wish there was more discussion around that. Maybe I missed it by why aren't more outlets saying, "yo Kendrick is obviously the best in this generation because of a, b, c d. and I dare another new school rapper to say otherwise." Maybe they're afraid that other new school nikkas will show just how irrelevant Kendrick is

Instead they're skipping a step (implying that it's a given that Duckie is the best) and going straight to "is he GOAT? He out-rhymed Pac" shyt is fukking weird.

To me its based on the fact that he made the best album

I place a premium on body of work

Section80 was dope
GKMC to me is a classic
TPAB was alright...too wierd

But who else put up an album like good kid? I fukks with drake and theres no question he has the radio and mainstream on lock..hes the biggest rap artist..but while he has the hits he doesnt have an album that fukks with GKMC. And with the ghostwriting shyt and the fact that aint no struggle in his music thats that


Asap gets creativity points and he can make a good song, i appreciate that he can spit but dude hella corny to me, and he cant last with kendrick in the studio and on the mic it aint happenin

J cole i respect immensely hes just not my cup of tea..im not blown away by him

But ultimately body of work matters and until kendrick drops enuff garbo to erase the memory of GKMC or someone else comes along and drops something hotter, kendrick still holds the throne to me

 

[SirBiatch]

Just watched that video.

Some of the arguments were trash tbh. Better lyricist than Pac?

But Kendrick's discog right now is pretty faultless imo. If he continues on this trend, how can he eventually not enter the discussion. Premature right now but very possible in a few years.

Only duckworths think this. Just like Wayne groupies think Wayne's discog is superb. Nobody else cares. And, in time, the kiddies will disappear. Leaving nothing.

That's the entire point.

 

[SirBiatch]

To me its based on the fact that he made the best album

I place a premium on body of work

Section80 was dope
GKMC to me is a classic
TPAB was alright...too wierd

But who else put up an album like good kid? I fukks with drake and theres no question he has the radio and mainstream on lock..hes the biggest rap artist..but while he has the hits he doesnt have an album that fukks with GKMC. And with the ghostwriting shyt and the fact that aint no struggle in his music thats that


Asap gets creativity points and he can make a good song, i appreciate that he can spit but dude hella corny to me, and he cant last with kendrick in the studio and on the mic it aint happenin

J cole i respect immensely hes just not my cup of tea..im not blown away by him

But ultimately body of work matters and until kendrick drops enuff garbo to erase the memory of GKMC or someone else comes along and drops something hotter, kendrick still holds the throne to me

This convo isn't about ASAP vs Drake vs Kendrick. I wish y'all would stop deflecting like that.

It's about forced accolades and not letting time/music speak for itself. PERIOD.

 

[Palm Tree's & Blunts]

Lol at People still falling victim to this bozo.

 

[Techniec]

This convo isn't about ASAP vs Drake vs Kendrick. I wish y'all would stop deflecting like that.

It's about forced accolades and not letting time speak for itself. PERIOD.

Bruh we living in an ADD generation fukk u think this is.

Im 32 years old i dont acknowledge any of these cats until theyre 15 years in the game

But this is the nature of todays industey and fan base...they only know what they know

And what they know is Kendrick is the best now so you gonna get those accolodaes

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Only duckworths think this. Just like Wayne groupies think Wayne's discog is superb. Nobody else cares. And, in time, the kiddies will disappear. Leaving nothing.

That's the entire point.

I'm far from a duckworth.

I think GKMC and TPAB are fantastic. I can understand some of the hostility towards the latter album, but I appreciate it even if it doesn't have me hooked to replay over and over. Kendrick is really a craftsman at making albums and that's something the new school is sorely lacking. Nowadays the emphasis is largely on singles. The craft is losing its value. Kendrick is one of the people restoring it I think.

Section 80 was dope. I do think UU is overrated as hell I mean some of that shyt was throwaways and extras but nobody really counting that tbh. I think it registers as a compilation anyway.

And btw his discog is really great but by no means am I putting it up with the GOAT discogs right now like Scarface or Ghost. He's on the right track is what I'm saying.

 

[smokeurobinson]

You're the first person to mention ASAP in this entire thread, and it's completely off-topic

This reminds me of the Kanye/Puff Daddy thread @stomachlines did when you brought up Jay-Z outta nowhere. Is that your thing? Rambling off topic?

I'm also the first person in this thread to mention Nathans hot dogs.


My point is, nothing you say will be taken serious when you big up Asap while shytting on Kendrick

I'm just saying

 

[SirBiatch]

Bruh we living in an ADD generation fukk u think this is.

Im 32 years old i dont acknowledge any of these cats until theyre 15 years in the game

But this is the nature of todays industey and fan base...they only know what they know

And what they know is Kendrick is the best now so you gonna get those accolodaes

then why are we even pretending like any accolade convo is serious? Especially us who supposedly know better.

I'm far from a duckworth.

I think GKMC and TPAB are fantastic. I can understand some of the hostility towards the latter album, but I appreciate it even if it doesn't have me hooked to replay over and over. Kendrick is really a craftsman at making albums and that's something the new school is sorely lacking. Nowadays the emphasis is largely on singles. The craft is losing its value. Kendrick is one of the people restoring it I think.

Section 80 was dope. I do think UU is overrated as hell I mean some of that shyt was throwaways and extras but nobody really counting that tbh. I think it registers as a compilation anyway.

And btw his discog is really great but by no means am I putting it up with the GOAT discogs right now like Scarface or Ghost. He's on the right track is what I'm saying.

But bruh, you can't be "right on track" if you're not making shyt that's up there with the GOAT discogs. You only become GOAT by making GOAT music. Period. Not how many "decent" or "listenable" or "yeah that was cool" albums you got. You could have a million of those and never be in the convo. That's why nikkas like Biggie are in the GOAT conversation despite only being around for a few years. His one album alone is better than 99% of nikkas's discogs. And in the 4 years he released music, nearly every single song he did was fantastic and still is fantastic. Ironically, he has a larger discog than 99% of dudes who have ever rapped.

Has Kendrick made any album as good as Scarface or Ghost? If not, fukk outta here with any GOAT convo

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

then why are we even pretending like any accolade convo is serious? Especially us who supposedly know better.




But bruh, you can't be "right on track" if you're not making shyt that's up there with the GOAT discogs. You only become GOAT by making GOAT music. Period. Not how many "decent" or "listenable" or "yeah that was cool" albums you got. You could have a million of those and never be in the convo. That's why nikkas like Biggie are in the GOAT conversation. His one album alone is better than 99% of nikkas's discogs.

Has Kendrick made any album as good as Scarface or Ghost? If not, fukk outta here with any GOAT convo

I'm not as big a fan of Kendrick as others but GKMC and TPAB have vast critical acclaim and a sufficient amount of commercial acclaim. Like you can't ignore that.

If you ask me, he ain't in the GOAT conversation yet. He has potential as in he hasn't fukked up his chances and I think he's the best the new school has to offer.

But I'll hold off the convo until we see more of the same if not better. Being consistent is very difficult, at least at the highest level.

 

[SirBiatch]

I'm not as big a fan of Kendrick as others but GKMC and TPAB have vast critical acclaim and a sufficient amount of commercial acclaim. Like you can't ignore that.

No one cares. Forced acclaim doesn't mean shyt.

You yourself claim to love GKMC and TPAB. Do you think it's as mindblowing/enjoyable as Supreme Clientele? The Diary? That's all that matters.

If you've never made anything as mindblowing/enjoyable as the GOATs best work, how in the fukk can you be in the GOAT conversation or in the running for GOAT? Makes zero sense.

 

[Black_Panther_JS]

He's not the GOAT

but he's not gonna be a joke

Wayne is a "joke" now cause he isn't that good and a lot of his music is from mixtapes
Albums > Mixtapes (Old Mixtapes, not the new types)

Section.80
good kid m.A.A.d city = Great
To Pimp a Butterfly

O(verly) D(edicated)
Kendrick Lamar EP = Good/Really Good
Untitled Mastered