Thomas Sowell: Welfare makes excuses for things that are wrong.

[marcuz]

This question has been asked multiple times, and answer has not been provided, so perhaps you can satisfy it effectively --- why did welfare only cripple black people's incentive to work? Welfare is available for all, so why didnt it simply cripple the American work ethic as a collective?

there's tons of white welfare leeches, who said it didn't kill their incentive to work? but whites have a sizable majority thats not going to start eating table scraps compared to the money they're already making.

hell, most cacs know they fukked up if they even qualify for welfare

 

[William F. Russell]

interesting thread, keep it going





if only this lunatic @Wenzel Dashington could

You see it too?!?!?!

 

[No_bammer_weed]

You're doing it again. You're shifting goalposts.

I've consistently said that welfare has had an adverse disparate net impact on the black community. I never said that it only adversely affected black people. I argue that welfare compounds the adverse effects of systematic racism on our community and further fractures the black family unit.

Reading comprehension. Get some.

Shifting what goalposts? I quoted you directly when you wrote:

thought he was zeroing in on how welfare crippled many black people's incentive to work

I wanted us to do a little mental legwork on this issue so I had you expound on that statement. But you knew that you had rambled so much by this point that you had finally cornered yourself. If Sowell's theory that racist policies and laws, and systems like slavery, jim crow, and discrimination were simply "excuses", and welfare didnt cripple anyone else's work ethic except blacks, welp the only place to go is to simply confirm the sort of anti-black stereotypes that have been the intellectual nexus behind, well, slavery and segregation. Specifically that blacks are inherently lazy and unthinking and worthless. Convenient how all of these past racist theories continue to line up perfectly with the opinions of the modern conservative intelligentsia.

Because you knew you had caught yourself, you retreated into an empty calorie position that wasnt all too distant from the general idea we have been repeating throughout this thread: Historical and present day discrimination are the main variables that have influenced and controlled the disproportionate welfare rates among blacks. Emphasis on racism. Now you're agreeing with us far more than you agree with Sowell, when before you were an uncritical supporter of his whole premise.

 

[William F. Russell]

Shifting what goalposts? I quoted you directly when you wrote:



I wanted us to do a little mental legwork on this issue so I had you expound on that statement. But you knew that you had rambled so much by this point that you had finally cornered yourself. If Sowell's theory that racist policies and laws, and systems like slavery, jim crow, and discrimination were simply "excuses", and welfare didnt cripple anyone else's work ethic except blacks, welp the only place to go is to simply confirm the sort of anti-black stereotypes that have been the intellectual nexus behind, well, slavery and segregation. Specifically that blacks are inherently lazy and unthinking and worthless. Convenient how all of these past racist theories continue to line up perfectly with the opinions of the modern conservative intelligentsia.

Because you knew you had caught yourself, you retreated into an empty calorie position that wasnt all too distant from the general idea we have been repeating throughout this thread: Historical and present day discrimination are the main variables that have influenced and controlled the disproportionate welfare rates among blacks. Emphasis on racism. Now you're agreeing with us far more than you agree with Sowell, when before you were an uncritical supporter of his whole premise.

You are one dense dude.

What you do is zero in on one statement/point in an argument. Interpret it incorrectly. Type verbal diarrhea setting up straw man arguments and then knocking them down. Then, in an astoundingly pretentious manner, dismiss the entire argument altogether while expecting to be viewed as some sort of intellectual.

I've stated my argument a dozen times and I will state it again. My position is that welfare has a disparate adverse impact on the black community. The impact is that of a broken black family unit and incentivized complacency.

Your point about welfare's impact on whites is irrelevant to my main argument.

If you're going to debate, stay on point.

 

[ignorethis]

Shifting what goalposts? I quoted you directly when you wrote:



I wanted us to do a little mental legwork on this issue so I had you expound on that statement. But you knew that you had rambled so much by this point that you had finally cornered yourself. If Sowell's theory that racist policies and laws, and systems like slavery, jim crow, and discrimination were simply "excuses", and welfare didnt cripple anyone else's work ethic except blacks, welp the only place to go is to simply confirm the sort of anti-black stereotypes that have been the intellectual nexus behind, well, slavery and segregation. Specifically that blacks are inherently lazy and unthinking and worthless. Convenient how all of these past racist theories continue to line up perfectly with the opinions of the modern conservative intelligentsia.

Because you knew you had caught yourself, you retreated into an empty calorie position that wasnt all too distant from the general idea we have been repeating throughout this thread: Historical and present day discrimination are the main variables that have influenced and controlled the disproportionate welfare rates among blacks. Emphasis on racism. Now you're agreeing with us far more than you agree with Sowell, when before you were an uncritical supporter of his whole premise.

Thomas Sowell has never said that.

And the fact we're even talking about work ethic is trash and a result of you derailing the argument, because Thomas Sowell never ever mentions "work ethic", in this criticism of welfare. He mentions that our current welfare system penalizes certain people for trying to work, and makes not working more beneficial than working in certain situations. He mentions how it encourages behaviors that lead to single black motherhood, but he never mentions work ethic. All you've done in this thread is derail and knockdown strawman arguments using a lot of words, you haven't actually argued against any of Sowell's points.

 

[DEAD7]

Welfare negatively(and positively) impacted everyone... where is this, "why only blacks" stuff coming from?

 

[William F. Russell]

First @Wenzel Dashington went full retard. Now @No_bammer_weed is following suit.

 

[Robbie3000]

Except he rarely flat out attacks black people, his message is usually more like "Historically blacks are strong, blacks are survivors, now we can go back to this if liberals keep their mitts off our communities"

Dude isn't a fukking c00n, he just feel a lot of the ills blacks face is because our family structures, he's been preaching this for decades. He rarely even talks about blacks if it's not related to the family structures. He mentioned getting blacks more and better education all the time, because when a black educated male and a black educated female make a family they usually outperform their white counterparts.

Hogwash. He reduces problems that we see in the black community to family structure issues caused by government policies that he doesn't agree with, while simultaneously absolving the dominant society of any wrongdoing. That's just lazy.

Yeah there is a bigger ratio of black people on welfare. But guess what? There are more poor black people in the country. Why are there more poor blacks in the country? because up until the 1960s, blacks couldn't even attend state schools that they were paying for in state taxes, much less enjoy the dignity of sitting at a counter and ordering a meal.

Ya'll act like the American middle class was puffed out of thin air. The American middle class was a deliberate construct of the United States Federal government. Specific policies were put in place to help create the middle class, but these policies excluded blacks. The GI bill is the best example, but just as you would expect in 1940s America, black GIs were denied the chance to participate in these programs. In much the same way blacks were largely excluded from from good manufacturing jobs in the northeast and midwest. Let's not forget a large portion of Americans in cities were living in slums until after World War 2 and the construction of Suburbs and the US Highways. But again, blacks were excluded from moving to these neighborhoods.

Buy yeah let's just reduce it to family structure and welfare.

The only reason welfare is almost a four letter word in America is because there is a higher ratio of black people on welfare than whites. This is a cause of great heartache and resentment among white conservatives and racists. I guarantee you if there was a negligible number of black people in America, the US welfare state would be just a robust as that of western Europe. Few people know, but Truman was willing to introduce universal healthcare back in the 40s, but the southern states blocked it because it meant they would have to integrate their hospitals - even though the South would have reaped the biggest benefit of any region.

 

[marcuz]

i have some relatives thats a little more fukked up in the game. (drug addiction) they asked me to hold their possessions in my garage for a minute cause they were facing eviction. after abandoning their belongings in my garage for over a year, i decided to start dumping their shyt. it was mainly clothes, shoes, paper work and toys. anyways, starting going through the paper work and they had damn welfare envelopes from the 80s. you could see how an entire family of 7 all tried to get on some form of welfare at some point. the mother on everything, daughters on EBT, trying to get on disability , WIC or section 8, sons trying to get ebt and disability too -- not to mention their juvenile and jail paper work.

i mean, this shyt isn't isolated to just a couple of hundred people. its a real mentality that has a lot of impoverished blacks steered in the wrong direction PURPOSELY.

 

[TRY GOD]

First @Wenzel Dashington went full retard. Now @No_bammer_weed is following suit.

You are trolling Sir.

 

[No_bammer_weed]

You are one dense dude.

What you do is zero in on one statement/point in an argument. Interpret it incorrectly. Type verbal diarrhea setting up straw man arguments and then knocking them down. Then, in an astoundingly pretentious manner, dismiss the entire argument altogether while expecting to be viewed as some sort of intellectual.

I've stated my argument a dozen times and I will state it again. My position is that welfare has a disparate adverse impact on the black community. The impact is that of a broken black family unit and incentivized complacency.

Your point about welfare's impact on whites is irrelevant to my main argument.

If you're going to debate, stay on point.

I am on point. You just dont want to actually confront your theory.

In order to capture the conceptual variable of welfare, we have to measure it across other subjects in order to understand its "crippling" principles as it were. Welfare isnt bad per say, based on the observational data of other populations, nor has it "incentivized complacency" or broken up their family units, and if anything has influenced very positive social and economic outcomes as a whole. In some populations like big business, its been off the charts positive.

So since we are able to isolate blacks as being negatively influenced by welfare the question then begs "why"? Sowell already removed discrimination from the table, so the obvious answer is that blacks lack some sort of internal endowment as a group --- genetics and/or intellect? We cant separate a black American "culture" from racist policies that gave it life, so your ideas are now openly paralleling white supremacists, which it they have been threatening to all along.

Funny thing is that Sowell could have easily expanded welfare into being bad as a whole given that white out of birthlock rates have risen at roughly the same rate as blacks post-great society. He doesnt make this argument because he is coc00ned within an audience of white nationalists, who pay him to malign black people, with a black face comforting them that slavery and jim crow wasnt really that bad, but blacks ARE REALLY BAD! He's an intellectual fraud at this stage in his life. Thats the point.

 

[TRY GOD]

Welfare negatively(and positively) impacted everyone... where is this, "why only blacks" stuff coming from?

I agree, Why are we focusing on Blacks on welfare when whites, who make up 77% of the population, are also the highest number of people on welfare?

I agree that we should get rid of welfare, and to do it, we must first take it away from the people who benefit the most from it, Crackers.

 

[Opus]

First thing the broken family structure in the black community does affect us more than the G.I. Bill and redlining arguing against like I said is ingenuous and makes me think do some of ya'll really live around black people.
Second thing the G.I. Bill is long gone, that is literally crying over spilled milk; people need to stay on the topic of the OP.

He didn't do a catch all attack on welfare read the OP and watch the video in OP, he mentioned welfare in context of encouraging detrimental behavior (such as being a single mother with no skills or employment but still having children, social consequences of boys growing up with no father in the home) and the myth that the black families have always been broken. He attacked Helen O'Bannon and she responded "I can't make them be single mothers", to which he responded "No, you simply subsidize it".

A lot Inner city/urban black folks do have a shyt culture, when more than 70% of your children are growing up in a broken home, something is definitely wrong with the culture! If that offends you then we can't even come to an agreement, cause you nikkas busy being offended by a truth rather than work to fix it. We already established welfare affects blacks the most dues the percentage of blacks on welfare so it's doesn't even make sense to try and compare our situations to other races, especially when you factor in things like Housing projects which aren't counted in most welfare statistics.

Broken family does affect us greatly. No one is arguing it doesnt. We are simply saying welfare is not the primary cause of the broken family. More than welfare, it's economics. In as much as redlining and the gi bill destroyed the ability of black families to pass on wealth from one generation to another it is not spilled milk but something we deal with today. If a black family could bequieth 100K to their daughter at marriage is she then avoiding marriage for welfare? No.

You say yourself black people are on welfare more, do you ask yourself why? If you stop at culture I'm convinced you are a cac.

 

[No_bammer_weed]

Thomas Sowell has never said that.

And the fact we're even talking about work ethic is trash and a result of you derailing the argument, because Thomas Sowell never ever mentions "work ethic", in this criticism of welfare. He mentions that our current welfare system penalizes certain people for trying to work, and makes not working more beneficial than working in certain situations. He mentions how it encourages behaviors that lead to single black motherhood, but he never mentions work ethic. All you've done in this thread is derail and knockdown strawman arguments using a lot of words, you haven't actually argued against any of Sowell's points.

Welfare doesnt penalize anyone from trying to work....thats absurd.

And if you actually followed the conversation, you would see that I was responding to your boy who made the specific comment about black work ethic. I quoted him twice. So even if we arent using language directly, there is an understanding of what these anti-black ideas are trying to relay.

Actually read carefully what people are writing and what inspires the responses before just leaping in with an half-baked comment.

 

[William F. Russell]

I am on point. You just dont want to actually confront your theory.

In order to capture the conceptual variable of welfare, we have to measure it across other subjects in order to understand its "crippling" principles as it were. Welfare isnt bad per say, based on the observational data of other populations, nor has it "incentivized complacency" or broken up their family units, and if anything has influenced very positive social and economic outcomes as a whole. In some populations like big business, its been off the charts positive.

So since we are able to isolate blacks as being negatively influenced by welfare the question then begs "why"? Sowell already removed discrimination from the table, so the obvious answer is that blacks lack some sort of internal endowment as a group --- genetics and/or intellect? We cant separate a black American "culture" from racist policies that gave it life, so your ideas are now openly paralleling white supremacists, which it they have been threatening to all along.

Your reading comprehension is .


I'm done going back and forth with you......