"TI, Jeezy & Wayne are legends just as much as any MC ever"
- Thread starter CrimsonTider
- Start date
Homeboy Runny-Ray
From Around The Way
The analogy wasn't on point
Wayne's work ethic/flood of mixtapes from 05-08 has shortened rap's attention span. I don't like it but nowadays after like 8 months after a project people think you 'disappeared'. People have become used to shyt dropping every few months.
I think a whole sound being copied for the better part of a decade is enough impact. The reason that it may seem small is because the offspring of Jeezy's brand of trap music aren't particularly talented as rappers.
meh, the ante was already upped in terms of music being released more rapidly within the mixtape game. it was already moving in that direction. the difference with wayne is that he had the most tracks floating around and was the one that took the initiative to make more official mixtapes out of the songs that he had on deck. props to him for that, even tho he dropped alot of garbage. with that said, he did change the game a bit but not nearly as much as youre making it seem. nor is that some sort of all-time great accomplishment to hang your hat on.
for the record, i do think that jeezy, wayne & tip are legends. just not on the same level of legendary status that alot of people are trying to place them on here.(i'll throw ludacris in that mix too, btw). im just saying that theres a whole 40 years of hip-hop that you have to take into consideration for things like this. and when you do that, its impossible to place these artists on that high of a pedestal.
and i actually agree with what you just said about jeezy. and yes, i admit that the lack of talent coming from most rappers that followed jeezy tends hurt the way i view his influence. we gotta be real tho, jeezy himself benefited from the game being dumbed-down in the 1st place, so its only right that his influence isnt seen in the brightest of lights. all 3 of these guys benefited from from a dwindled-down maintstream scene in the mid-00s.
jeezy's movement wasnt propaganda. it was grassroots. not to say that tip wasnt grassroots but he never had a movement. and a noticeable amount of his success can be considered force-fed.
sure, the snowman shirts played a big role but that wasnt what jeezy's whole movement was built off of.
tip introduced the style to the mainstream. JEEZY TOOK IT TO A WHOLE NOTHER LEVEL. how hard is this to understand? and im sorry but that rza/kanye comparison is horrible. kanye DID NOT take sped-up samples to no dagone next level. nor did he re-introduce it. and lets be really real, his fellow rocafella producer(just blaze) & rocafella affiliates(heatmakerz) had more popular sped-up sample productions back then. kanye just became more of a public figure as time went on, so he gets extra credit for chit that he doesnt deserve.
jeezy's catalog being more popular than tip's is not an opinion. its an observation. an example of an opinion is you saying that comparing jeezy to tip is a "huge reach".
jeezy's sales are indeed more impressive. he was the peoples champion for his era. the peoples champion always has the most impressive sales. thats one of the main reasons why they get such a title. he wasnt shoved down our throats like tip. he didnt make candy-coated rain drop singles, he didnt go out of his way to pander to outside audiences like the pop world, the r&b world & the east coast. not to mention that jeezy's own label tends to sabotage his career. and despite all this, he continues to put up crazy numbers. and hes been doing this for 8 years. chit, i remember it took forever for trap muzik to crack gold in '03-04. and then it stayed gold after being pushed for a whole year. and this is '03-04, when rappers were still selling big units. then here comes jeezy, who surpassed tip's buzz before tm101 even dropped. now do the math on that.
now this is where i might have to take an L. im not sure. i dont remember what you said that pharrell quote was pertaining to exactly.
According to people who say that Jeezy had a greater influence than T.I. regarding trap music, he spawned a bunch of "dumbed down" trap rappers. If T.I. introduced this style of rap to the mainstream, and Jeezy's approach to the same style was dumbed down, how then did Jeezy take it to another level?
You didn't say Jeezy's sales were just impressive, you went as far as to say they were more impressive than T.I.'s. What does being the people's champion have to do with anything? When we look at the sales of any artists who has consistently sold records, it can be said that they are "the people's champ". Who cares whether or not he had candy coated singles? If you want to go that route, "What You Know" is the song that really blew T.I. up. It was a T.I. song without any features. Jeezy's biggest singles always had features that were bigger than him (Akon, R. Kelly, Kanye West). He's more comparable to Ross in that sense. When T.I. first came on the scene, a trap rapper blowing up was unheard of it. Without T.I., Jeezy wouldn't have had a lane to become a "people's champ". Besides that, Jeezy had a machine behind him. He had Jay Z and Def Jam and Diddy and Bad Boy South. On top of that, he had a single produced by and featuring one of the biggest artists out at the time in Akon. T.I. was not afforded that set up.
T.I.'s fanbase grew with each album while Jeezy's fanbase declined with each album. TM101 is Jeezy's biggest seller. T.I.'s sixth album is his biggest. T.I. was doing numbers on par with Jay Z without the "candy coated singles".
Jeezy's buzz being bigger than T.I.'s at the time is arguable. There were people thinking that Jeezy was T.I. when they first heard Trap Or Die.
These nikkas definitely elevated the south to a national level. Future and all of them would still be picking cotton if not for these nikkas
Sent from handheld Minority Report console
Sent from handheld Minority Report console
Homeboy Runny-Ray
From Around The Way
master p elevated the south years before jeezy & tip even picked up their 1st microphone. and we already know cash money got their deals off the backs of no limit, and for years, wayne was just a roleplayer on that team.
these guys really didnt do anything all that special.
it seems like alot of stuff that i said, kinda went over your head a bit.
and i dont know what type of pinheads you were talking to, but jeezy sounds nothing like tip.
Yep they were the nikkas who made east coast rappers abandon our whole shyt
No limit and cash money were big but I think the rest of the country saw them as novelty acts
These dudes made the country take the south seriously
Not to say the south wasn't worth taking seriously before them... Outkast opened the door... But these guys elevated the south to national legitimacy
These were the first down south rappers to collaborate with east coast artists on some regular non marketing shyt. You have to be stupid (or Wacky D) to downplay their impact. And I don't really like any of these dudes
Sent from handheld Minority Report console
Nothing you posted went over my head. Most, if not all, was basically how you felt Jeezy's catalog was more popular and his sales were more impressive. Then you posted about his "movement" and how he was the "people's champ". You were trying to make it like Jeezy was somehow bigger than both T.I. and Wayne, and there's no way that it's true.
As far as Jeezy sounding like T.I. when Trap or Die came out, there were a lot of people who thought that. I'm not just simply making an observation based on my circle of friends. This was something that was discussed on forums before Jeezy dropped his debut.
@ Jeezy being bigger than Wayne. Wayne's sidekicks are bigger than Jeezy 
Homeboy Runny-Ray
From Around The Way
jeezy was indeed bigger than wayne in '05-06. it wasnt even arguable.
between this and your other post, you sound very green. thats one thing, but since you want to throw darts on top of that, i can throw darts back too and str8 pull your card.
you need to give a background check on yourself homie. cuz you sound silly in here.
outkast didnt open any doors.
no limit & cash money headlined major venue tours all thru the east coast. when did tip & jeezy ever do that? they also sold way more records on the east than those guys. yet, you claim that theyre novelty acts.
the only difference is that when tip & jeezy came out, east coast bias was already near extinction and east coast radio was already playing southern music heavy before tip & jeezy ever hit the airwaves up north......and who were the main artists that broke those doors down? the no limit soldiers. and then the cash money millionaires jumped thru the windows. tip & jeezy didnt do chit but reap their benefits.
lol @ "they were the 1st rappers to collaborate with east coast artists on some regular non-marketing chit".
youre just pulling chit out of your @$$ now.youre just posting the same stuff over & over.
i already described what a people's champ is. tip doesnt fit the description.
jeezy was indeed bigger than tip & wayne at his peak. and if you dont think that he had a movement, then youre clearly not in the streets, therefore alot of stuff doesnt reasonate with you. thus, this argument is pointless.
so youre getting this "people thought jeezy & tip sounded alike" stuff from web forums?
youre just repeating the same off-brand statements. youre trying to attribute jeezy's success soley to a label, when he was already big before the label push. bad boy south didnt do anything for jeezy's career. jeezy was the reason that boyz n the hood record sold. and him not being on the 2nd album is the reason why that chit went nowhere. he was already the man. the def jam push came afterwards. "trap or die" and the "so icey" joint for gucci's album was before all of this.
now look at tip's comeup and you see the opposite. "trap muzik" was promoted heavy. "24s" got endless spins despite the fact that their were lots of bigger songs out that didnt get half as much play. and the album didnt do chit. it didnt start to sell until "rubberband man" dropped 6 months later. they promoted the hell out of that cd for an entire year, only for it to go gold. then the media started pushing the "king of the south" mantra down our throats and pushed him even harder. tip's sales never lived up to his promotion. sorta like ross, but ross got the crown so it doesnt even matter. tip was never thee man in hip-hop. now back to the sales, since yall took it there: the only time tip's sales matched his hype/promtion was when he dropped "king" after 3 years of being pushed to the moon. and alot of that had to do with timing, with ATL dropping right along with it and all.
jeezy was indeed bigger than wayne in '05-06. it wasnt even arguable.
between this and your other post, you sound very green. thats one thing, but since you want to throw darts on top of that, i can throw darts back too and str8 pull your card.
you need to give a background check on yourself homie. cuz you sound silly in here.
outkast didnt open any doors.
no limit & cash money headlined major venue tours all thru the east coast. when did tip & jeezy ever do that? they also sold way more records on the east than those guys. yet, you claim that theyre novelty acts.
the only difference is that when tip & jeezy came out, east coast bias was already near extinction and east coast radio was already playing southern music heavy before tip & jeezy ever hit the airwaves up north......and who were the main artists that broke those doors down? the no limit soldiers. and then the cash money millionaires jumped thru the windows. tip & jeezy didnt do chit but reap their benefits.
lol @ "they were the 1st rappers to collaborate with east coast artists on some regular non-marketing chit".
youre just posting the same stuff over & over.
i already described what a people's champ is. tip doesnt fit the description.
jeezy was indeed bigger than tip & wayne at his peak. and if you dont think that he had a movement, then youre clearly not in the streets, therefore alot of stuff doesnt reasonate with you. thus, this argument is pointless.
so youre getting this "people thought jeezy & tip sounded alike" stuff from web forums?
youre just repeating the same off-brand statements. youre trying to attribute jeezy's success soley to a label, when he was already big before the label push. bad boy south didnt do anything for jeezy's career. jeezy was the reason that boyz n the hood record sold. and him not being on the 2nd album is the reason why that chit went nowhere. he was already the man. the def jam push came afterwards. "trap or die" and the "so icey" joint for gucci's album was before all of this.
now look at tip's comeup and you see the opposite. "trap muzik" was promoted heavy. "24s" got endless spins despite the fact that their were lots of bigger songs out that didnt get half as much play. and the album didnt do chit. it didnt start to sell until "rubberband man" dropped 6 months later. they promoted the hell out of that cd for an entire year, only for it to go gold. then the media started pushing the "king of the south" mantra down our throats and pushed him even harder. tip's sales never lived up to his promotion. sorta like ross, but ross got the crown so it doesnt even matter. tip was never thee man in hip-hop. now back to the sales, since yall took it there: the only time tip's sales matched his hype/promtion was when he dropped "king" after 3 years of being pushed to the moon. and alot of that had to do with timing, with ATL dropping right along with it and all.
If it seems like I'm posting the same thing over and over, it's because people felt some kind of way about me posting that it was pre-mature to call Jeezy a legend. I already stated a stance and you could either agree or disagree.
I'm not the one making off brand statements. You are the one that's all over the place with your replies. For example, you're now going to claim that Jeezy is the reason why the Boyz N The Hood record sold. That's beside the point. The point is that the group still helped promote Jeezy. You can't really attribute the commercial failure of the second album to Jeezy not being on it. None of the second albums from Bad Boy South artists had anywhere near the success of the first. Another example is you bringing your own definition of people's champ into this. Now that's laughable. Stick to the facts.
"Trap or Die" and "So Icey" were big here, but Jeezy wasn't exactly "the man".
Again, you are all over the place. Now, you are claiming that T.I.'s sales never lived up to his promotion. Unless you are going to break down the marketing dollars that went into that album vs. the amount it actually sold, it's irrelevant. Trap Muzik was gold in less than 4 months. Aside from OutKast, Lil' Jon & The Eastside Boyz, and Ludacris, who else in The South was doing huge numbers at the time? Every other artist in The South was pretty much going gold at the time. The fact is that the album grew over time. Rarely in Hip Hop, does an album sell well over time. That's also an accomplishment. There are a few albums in Hip Hop in which it could be argued that the sales didn't match the hype, but the album sold over time.
The media didn't push some "King of the South" agenda. T.I. was calling himself that since his debut album. It's no different than Mystikal calling himself the Prince of the South (which is where T.I. got the inspiration from).
In terms of sales, you were the one that really started talking numbers as in who's catalog was more popular and whose sales were more impressive. So you are included in this "ya'll" that you are referring to. The fact is T.I. has three platinum albums (Trap Muzik, Urban Legend, King and T.I. vs. T.I.P.) and a double platinum album(Paper Trail). He has one gold album (No Mercy) and one that's on it's way to gold (Trouble Man).
Now you're saying that Jeezy at his peak was bigger than T.I. and Wayne. This is something else that is arguable. Come on, in 2005, Wayne dropped Carter 2 which was a huge album and was the one that catapulted Wayne to another level. There was also that Dedication mixtape series that was jumping off. By 2006, Wayne was pretty much inescapable. That was never Jeezy even at his peak. Same goes for 2005-2006 T.I.
Homeboy Runny-Ray
From Around The Way
i dont know anything about youre previous posts in this thread. im strictly referring to your convo with me. you need to just admit that you personally just werent up on jeezy like that. otherwise, you wouldnt be making most of these comments.
yes, the 2nd boyz n the hood album wasnt promoted like the 1st, but there was very little anticipation for the project to begin with.
also, if you took notice to what youre saying, you would realize how much the media pushed that "king of the south" propaganda with tip. you refer to mystikal branding himself as the prince of the south years beforehand. well what media outlets referred to him as such? none. but they sure got on the tip bandwagon, even tho he wasnt running chit down there.
I've been up on Jeezy since late '04. I knew about Thuggin' Under the Influence (didn't listen to it besides the snippets) back in '02-'03, but didn't make the Jeezy/Lil' J connection until after he blew up. I remember first hearing "Ova Here" and "So Icey" on the radio before there was even a Boyz N Da Hood album. I remember visiting my cousin and him putting me on to Trap or Die. I even remember the song with Fabolous off Fab's Real Talk. I know enough to know that even at his peak, Jeezy was never the biggest thing in rap like you're trying to make him out to be.
With the "king of the south" moniker that T.I. gave himself on I'm Serious, it was never really something that the media promoted. It's simply a self proclaimed title that he ran with. People either agreed, strongly disagreed, or really didn't think much about it altogether. T.I. was never pushed as the king of the south. Vibe, in fact used the "King of the South" for a magazine cover featuring T.I. That was more about selling magazines than it was pushing T.I. as "king of the south" much in the same way the used "Notorious King" for their Nicki Minaj cover.
Homeboy Runny-Ray
From Around The Way
what i meant was for you to just admit that you werent up on jeezy's buzz like that. or like i said earlier, maybe youre just not in the streets so it doesnt reasonate with you.
dog, darn near every media outlet was referring to tip as "king of the south". he appears on a television show, and theyre gassing him up as the king. come on man. did you not see any of this?