Title Edit: Under 2012 Turnout Rates HRC Would've Narrowly Won the Election

Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
468
Reputation
130
Daps
1,255
Reppin
In The Clouds
I get all that, but let's watch in the next week or so how this is digested by the party's base. Secondly, comparing turnout to 2008 and 2012 is just stupid. Anyone expecting Hillary or ANY other candidate to get the same black turnout as Obama is being very dense.
Right, but turnout was actually about a point or two lower than expected (models had already accounted for the decrease). That was enough in an election decided by 80,000 votes. Basically, HRC went and got the latino vote up in places like California and people in the midwest of all backgrounds said :camby:.

I don't see how you guys see this as blaming black people outside from the headline that the writer clearly didn't pick (if you read his stuff he's an uber progressive dude sort of like me).

Here's election data that he bases what he said on:

Why did Trump win? More whites — and fewer blacks — actually voted.




By Bernard L. Fraga, Sean McElwee, Jesse Rhodes and Brian Schaffner May 8
ground game, messaging, FBI Director James B. Comey’s last-minute letter to Congress, and defections from the “Obama coalition.

Here, we offer new data to show that shifts in which racial groups went to the polls may have made the difference.

Using data from the voter file vendor Catalist and information from the U.S. Census Bureau, we examine the change in turnout rates for different racial/ethnic groups between 2012 and 2016. Black turnout declined dramatically; white turnout increased noticeably; and Latino and Asian American turnout went up even more. In the key swing states of Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, those shifts were especially strong. How strong? Without those shifts in turnout from various racial and ethnic groups, these pivotal states might have gone not to Trump but to Clinton — giving Clinton an electoral college victory.

How we did our research

It is surprisingly difficult to estimate levels of voter turnout by race. Unlike the forthcoming report from the Current Population Survey, Catalist’s estimates are based not on self reports but on actual turnout records. Since most states do not ask voters about their racial/ethnic background, Catalist usually estimates this information from the voter’s name and neighborhood.

According to recent research, Catalist correctly predicts race/ethnicity about 91 percent of the time. Further, we use Catalist’s estimates of voter race for both 2012 and 2016. If Catalist’s estimates are wrong, they’re likely wrong in a consistent way — and so any differences we find in the electorate’s racial composition are accurate.

The denominator we use to calculate turnout rates is an estimate of the citizen voting-age population (CVAP) by race in November 2012 and November 2016, respectively. To construct this estimate, we use the Census Bureau’s Population Estimates Program data to calculate the voting-age population in each state by race, and then use American Communities Survey information on citizenship rates to remove the (often substantial) noncitizen population for each racial/ethnic group.

How voter turnout by race changed between 2012 and 2016

Nationally, turnout rates for these racial/ethnic groups changed noticeably from 2012 to 2016, as you can see in the figure below.

Cooperative Congressional Election Study to estimate the 2016 presidential vote choices of whites, African Americans, Latinos, and Asian Americans in each state. Then we set the turnout rates of each of these groups to their 2012 level, while keeping everything else as it was in 2016. You can see the results in the figure below.


SCHAFFNER-fig4-512x1024.png

In most states, as you can see, the shifts are just a few tenths of a point. In 12 of the 15 battleground states this past election, 2012 turnout rates would have made no difference in who won.


But if groups had gone to the polls at the same rates as in 2012, Clinton would likely have won Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin in 2016 — though in the last two cases by razor-thin margins.

If we changed nothing but the turnout rates of various racial and ethnic groups, in Michigan, the actual Clinton loss by .2 percentage points would have become a victory by 1.5 percentage points. Clinton’s actual loss by 0.7 percentage points in Pennsylvania would have been a 0.5 percent victory. And instead of Trump winning Wisconsin by 0.8 points, Clinton would have won by 0.1 percent. Clinton’s electoral college total would have been 278 votes, putting her in the White House.

Of course, these measures are estimates and subject to error. Interpret cautiously. But what’s clear is that the jump in white turnout in key swing states and drop in black turnout may well have handed the presidency to Trump.
 

Black Panther

Long Live The King
Supporter
Joined
Nov 20, 2016
Messages
14,530
Reputation
10,937
Daps
74,876
Reppin
Wakanda
Just wow....so we as a people always have to save white folks in an election? :hhh:

Seriously? This the same woman calling our black children "Super Predators". :stopitslime:

This the same woman who was mentored by a former KKK member?

How come we understand the Game and she doesn't?

But we are considered less than but it's up to US to pick the right president for white people?

Now you have a white man in office who is fukking up everything especially for white people but WE as a people are to blame for Hillary not getting into office when her SAME white women sold her out to get a seat at the table of White Supremacy...:gucci:

Seems they forgot that the Table was only made for White Men...:comeon:.


fukk man...White Logic is just so fukking bizarre. :mindblown:

I am fed up with these people man. I can't even stand to do business with these people or even say hi to them in the street. :hubie:

Rep pending for the avi
 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Superstar
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
6,541
Reputation
135
Daps
15,960
this part had me scratching my head: The researchers found that, as many predicted, Hispanic turnout increased significantly—by 3.8 points nationally. Asian turnout also increased nationally by 3 points. Both groups skew Democratic. But neither boost was enough to save Clinton.

so is he saying that if blacks had turned out, things would have been different? the tone of article is kinda sketchy imo.

the title says low black turnout cost clinton the election :leostare:

I guess based on what I understood it showed more flaws on Clinton/Democrats than black voters.

Either way we agree there's a slight disconnect between the two groups
 

levitate

I love you, you know.
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
41,215
Reputation
6,843
Daps
157,525
Reppin
The Multiverse
Call black people Super Predators...

Half ass apologize for it...

PBT got this on lock for yall. Watch the whole video. Make time.



Stop, please.

Wow..,she called actual super predators...super predators. Not blacks in general. She was referring to the thugs who were/are out there killing, robing, shooting...disrupting the lives of those living in black neighborhoods.

They were super predators... Nothing wrong with what she said.
 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Superstar
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
6,541
Reputation
135
Daps
15,960
Stop, please.

Wow..,she called actual super predators...super predators. Not blacks in general. She was referring to the thugs who were/are out there killing, robing, shooting...disrupting the lives of those living in black neighborhoods.

They were super predators... Nothing wrong with what she said.

She also said this in a crowd of racially diverse people...so....I don't think we can consider this one "locker room banter"
 

Crude Abolitionist

End Slavery
Supporter
Joined
Feb 16, 2017
Messages
17,716
Reputation
2,425
Daps
82,966
Stop, please.

Wow..,she called actual super predators...super predators. Not blacks in general. She was referring to the thugs who were/are out there killing, robing, shooting...disrupting the lives of those living in black neighborhoods.

They were super predators... Nothing wrong with what she said.

Who's mans is this?
 

theworldismine13

God Emperor of SOHH
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
22,799
Reputation
565
Daps
22,759
Reppin
Arrakis
Stop, please.

Wow..,she called actual super predators...super predators. Not blacks in general. She was referring to the thugs who were/are out there killing, robing, shooting...disrupting the lives of those living in black neighborhoods.

They were super predators... Nothing wrong with what she said.

:mjlol:
 

GnauzBookOfRhymes

Superstar
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
13,173
Reputation
2,899
Daps
48,818
Reppin
NULL
But the biggest takeaway is that turnout overall was not the biggest factor in this election, that has now been demonstrated. HRC legitimately lost working class white votes that Obama had.
I was on the train re-reading the article and felt compelled to really write down my thoughts. Apologies for the wall of text, but I think you are being incredibly generous in your analysis. Look back at the structure of the column and the flow of the analysis.

The first thing to do is look at the lede. This is the idea/argument/analysis that the writer wants to leave you with. Newspapers/columnists know that many readers may not finish the entire piece - this is the message they feel is most important. In this case it very squarely states Clinton was

"damaged by a significant decline in turnout among black voters, especially in a few high stakes states", followed by the money quote from the Washington Post.

It then summarizes percentage of black voter declines, highlighting critical swing states while pointing out states where white turnout increased. It then transitions to numbers that suggest other traditionally Dem voters (Hispanic/Asians) increased turnout, but that "neither boost was enough to save Clinton." (My analysis - The other minorities did their part and then some, but it wasn't enough to counter black people staying home)

I find it interesting that a 3.8% increase by Hispanics is described as "significant" but a 3.5 and 5.2% increase in white turnout in Florida/Pennsylvania (which obviously directly aided Trump) doesn't deserve a similar adjective. This subtly pushes a narrative that Hispanics did their duty by "significantly" increasing turnout - but that this increase couldn't negate lower black turnout.

Next paragraph squarely states that had turnout remained at 2012 levels Clinton would've probably won the election. Think about the underlying message. The only deviations in turnout that would have changed the result, if you follow the logic of this piece, is the lower black turnout. Remember that the piece very clearly stated that WHITE turnout modestly declined (which would presumably have HELPED Clinton) in the 3 states that decided the election (MI, WI, PA) and Hispanic/Asian turnout was lower in 2012.

NOW, neither Slate, nor the writer or the Dem establishment want to appear to blaming ONLY black voters, so they have to throw in mitigating factors (at the end of course - there is no caveat to the pronouncement in the lede). One of the most profound statements of fact - "It is clear that Trump managed to convert a significant number of Obama voters, especially among the white working class in the aforementioned swing states" - is IMMEDIATELY followed by the notion that only if black people would have turned out in greater numbers that they could have "blunted the impact of those [white] losses and might have even put Clinton over the top. As anyone who watched election returns will tell you, Clinton's inability to hold white Obama voters was crucial in her loss in places like PA. But look at the writer's analysis.

"IT IS CLEAR" that Hillary's inability to hold those voters aided Trump. This is an undeniable fact. There were no external (voter suppression for instance) factors that could account for why these voters abandoned Hillary. They simply didn't like her or her policies. And there is no analysis as to why this is the case, they are given the benefit of having a choice of who to support.

"BUT IT SEEMS" (i.e. I have no actual proof) that higher black turnout COULD HAVE put Clinton over the top. (In other words, having to choose between the objective fact (Clinton lost Obama voters) and a belief that can't actually be proven - the writerpresent the unproven hypothesis as the primary factor).

And even worse is the way that they casually dismiss the effect of voter suppression, contrary to reams of evidence that these efforts are ONGOING.

https://thinkprogress.org/2016-a-case-study-in-voter-suppression-258b5f90ddcd

The message I get is essentially that voter suppression is no excuse since we've known for 4 years that the Republicans are going to try to depress turnout.

Finally, anytime a reporter wants to talk to "real life black people" they make their way to the nearest barber shop! I mean why go out of your office and talk to your black colleague when you can demonstrate your authenticity by proving you're not afraid to be the only white woman in a black barbershop.

Words have meaning, especially to a person who makes their living with their writing. Think about the following passage:

"Only two could muster the enthusiasm", and even worse, one of those two "wrote in himself."

I guarantee you that a SIGNIFICANT percentage of white Dem/liberal voters (even the ones that are more conscious etc) that read these lines will immediately smack their forehead and shake their heads solemnly at these lines. (The underlying message is not only were they too lazy to get up and vote even when they did, they throw away their votes by childishly voting for themselves or even worse, Bernie).


A final point, please don't take this to mean that I think we need some cataclysmic intra party war - that will only help the GOP. And that will only hurt the country. But people need to understand that there is an active effort by the mainstream within the party, that wants to remain more centrist and beat back the populist/progressive wave, to subtly shift blame for the loss away from the central characters and their underlying political positions. They know black voters are extremely loyal to the party; and because black voters have little to no expectations even of the Dems, they know that even if they push this narrative that if only black people had turned out in 16 like they did in 08 and 12 that we wouldn't be dealing with a pres. trump, that we are not going to turn away from the Party. In other words, we can safely be blamed without a significant loss in votes.

And not surprisingly, neither of these presumably highly educated writers have the self awareness to make the connection between the barber's statement that "no president in his lifetime, INCLUDING (my emphasis), had significantly improved the lives of black people" and why black people in states where their governments are actively taking measures to take away their right to vote and where even when they DO turnout and elect Democrats, they still feel like their lives are not improving, might suffer from a "lack of enthusiasm."
 

Pressure

#PanthersPosse
Supporter
Joined
Nov 19, 2016
Messages
48,667
Reputation
7,390
Daps
153,964
Reppin
CookoutGang
Stop, please.

Wow..,she called actual super predators...super predators. Not blacks in general. She was referring to the thugs who were/are out there killing, robing, shooting...disrupting the lives of those living in black neighborhoods.

They were super predators... Nothing wrong with what she said.
:patrice:

"But we also have to have an organized effort against gangs," Hillary Clinton said in a C-SPAN video clip. "Just as in a previous generation we had an organized effort against the mob. We need to take these people on. They are often connected to big drug cartels, they are not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kinds of kids that are called superpredators — no conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first, we have to bring them to heel."

:leostare:
 

King of Creampies

Hop in. You coming too!
Joined
Feb 18, 2017
Messages
6,863
Reputation
3,761
Daps
34,112
Reppin
Wild Hunt
I was on the train re-reading the article and felt compelled to really write down my thoughts. Apologies for the wall of text, but I think you are being incredibly generous in your analysis. Look back at the structure of the column and the flow of the analysis.

The first thing to do is look at the lede. This is the idea/argument/analysis that the writer wants to leave you with. Newspapers/columnists know that many readers may not finish the entire piece - this is the message they feel is most important. In this case it very squarely states Clinton was

"damaged by a significant decline in turnout among black voters, especially in a few high stakes states", followed by the money quote from the Washington Post.

It then summarizes percentage of black voter declines, highlighting critical swing states while pointing out states where white turnout increased. It then transitions to numbers that suggest other traditionally Dem voters (Hispanic/Asians) increased turnout, but that "neither boost was enough to save Clinton." (My analysis - The other minorities did their part and then some, but it wasn't enough to counter black people staying home)

I find it interesting that a 3.8% increase by Hispanics is described as "significant" but a 3.5 and 5.2% increase in white turnout in Florida/Pennsylvania (which obviously directly aided Trump) doesn't deserve a similar adjective. This subtly pushes a narrative that Hispanics did their duty by "significantly" increasing turnout - but that this increase couldn't negate lower black turnout.

Next paragraph squarely states that had turnout remained at 2012 levels Clinton would've probably won the election. Think about the underlying message. The only deviations in turnout that would have changed the result, if you follow the logic of this piece, is the lower black turnout. Remember that the piece very clearly stated that WHITE turnout modestly declined (which would presumably have HELPED Clinton) in the 3 states that decided the election (MI, WI, PA) and Hispanic/Asian turnout was lower in 2012.

NOW, neither Slate, nor the writer or the Dem establishment want to appear to blaming ONLY black voters, so they have to throw in mitigating factors (at the end of course - there is no caveat to the pronouncement in the lede). One of the most profound statements of fact - "It is clear that Trump managed to convert a significant number of Obama voters, especially among the white working class in the aforementioned swing states" - is IMMEDIATELY followed by the notion that only if black people would have turned out in greater numbers that they could have "blunted the impact of those [white] losses and might have even put Clinton over the top. As anyone who watched election returns will tell you, Clinton's inability to hold white Obama voters was crucial in her loss in places like PA. But look at the writer's analysis.

"IT IS CLEAR" that Hillary's inability to hold those voters aided Trump. This is an undeniable fact. There were no external (voter suppression for instance) factors that could account for why these voters abandoned Hillary. They simply didn't like her or her policies. And there is no analysis as to why this is the case, they are given the benefit of having a choice of who to support.

"BUT IT SEEMS" (i.e. I have no actual proof) that higher black turnout COULD HAVE put Clinton over the top. (In other words, having to choose between the objective fact (Clinton lost Obama voters) and a belief that can't actually be proven - the writerpresent the unproven hypothesis as the primary factor).

And even worse is the way that they casually dismiss the effect of voter suppression, contrary to reams of evidence that these efforts are ONGOING.

https://thinkprogress.org/2016-a-case-study-in-voter-suppression-258b5f90ddcd

The message I get is essentially that voter suppression is no excuse since we've known for 4 years that the Republicans are going to try to depress turnout.

Finally, anytime a reporter wants to talk to "real life black people" they make their way to the nearest barber shop! I mean why go out of your office and talk to your black colleague when you can demonstrate your authenticity by proving you're not afraid to be the only white woman in a black barbershop.

Words have meaning, especially to a person who makes their living with their writing. Think about the following passage:

"Only two could muster the enthusiasm", and even worse, one of those two "wrote in himself."

I guarantee you that a SIGNIFICANT percentage of white Dem/liberal voters (even the ones that are more conscious etc) that read these lines will immediately smack their forehead and shake their heads solemnly at these lines. (The underlying message is not only were they too lazy to get up and vote even when they did, they throw away their votes by childishly voting for themselves or even worse, Bernie).


A final point, please don't take this to mean that I think we need some cataclysmic intra party war - that will only help the GOP. And that will only hurt the country. But people need to understand that there is an active effort by the mainstream within the party, that wants to remain more centrist and beat back the populist/progressive wave, to subtly shift blame for the loss away from the central characters and their underlying political positions. They know black voters are extremely loyal to the party; and because black voters have little to no expectations even of the Dems, they know that even if they push this narrative that if only black people had turned out in 16 like they did in 08 and 12 that we wouldn't be dealing with a pres. trump, that we are not going to turn away from the Party. In other words, we can safely be blamed without a significant loss in votes.

And not surprisingly, neither of these presumably highly educated writers have the self awareness to make the connection between the barber's statement that "no president in his lifetime, INCLUDING (my emphasis), had significantly improved the lives of black people" and why black people in states where their governments are actively taking measures to take away their right to vote and where even when they DO turnout and elect Democrats, they still feel like their lives are not improving, might suffer from a "lack of enthusiasm."

Damm...nikka wrote a thesis. :ehh:

You make some good points. :salute:
 

levitate

I love you, you know.
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
41,215
Reputation
6,843
Daps
157,525
Reppin
The Multiverse
:patrice:

"But we also have to have an organized effort against gangs," Hillary Clinton said in a C-SPAN video clip. "Just as in a previous generation we had an organized effort against the mob. We need to take these people on. They are often connected to big drug cartels, they are not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kinds of kids that are called superpredators — no conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first, we have to bring them to heel."

:leostare:

Nothing wrong with what she said.

Speaking as someone who was robbed at gunpoint by a Super Predator, and with friends/family who were shot and killed by Super Predators I fully support her comments.
 
Top