Trump Administration Discussed Coup Plans With Rebel Venezuelan Officers

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I responded to your comment where you implied those who were against this hare brain idea of a coup which has no guarantee to succeed was basically hyon. I basically showed that the US is hyon on Yemen which also going though an even worse humanitarian crisis than Yemen. When Is aid that you didn't think that was true. The US does allow aid but Saudi Arabia picks and chooses who gets the aid. Secondly the US is helping what is left of the GCC to enforce an embargo to basically starve Yemen to submission which ironically they accuse Russia and Assad for doing in Syria which they do I am not denying it. All I am saying America picks and chooses what humanitarian crisis they want to intervene. All I am saying is be more consistent with your outrage because it looks like you look one over the other.

Wait till this guy learns about Chechnya

 

[ZoeGod]

Wait till this guy learns about Chechnya

I know about the Chechen Wars and the atrocities that Russia and China commit. My thing is both nations don’t pretend to be about human rights. They ain’t shyt. But the US puts this facade that they care about human rights and against war crimes meanwhile the US is just as bad as Russia and China in this regard. The US is a hypocritical superpower. At least you in this thread keep it a buck that it’s not about the Venezuelan people or to mitigate the humanitarian crisis. Simple geopolitics. I respect that even though I don’t agree with it. But don’t cry crocodile tears for the Venezuelan people while the people in Yemen are going through worst with US approval, with US aid and US advice.

 

[Baka's Weird Case]

yeah after decades of washington supporting dictatorships in brazil, argentina and chile, death squads and military governments in el salvador and honduras, brutally violent contras in nicaragua, im not buying any "humantarian" interest in ending maduros regime.
i also dont see how starting a civil war in venezuela will be in our national security interests. seems like it will lead to intense blowback like the '53 iranian coup and the vast majority of other american military interventions taken on behalf of national security interests since WWII.

 

[88m3]

yeah after decades of washington supporting dictatorships in brazil, argentina and chile, death squads and military governments in el salvador and honduras, brutally violent contras in nicaragua, im not buying any "humantarian" interest in ending maduros regime.
i also dont see how starting a civil war in venezuela will be in our national security interests. seems like it will lead to intense blowback like the '53 iranian coup and the vast majority of other american military interventions taken on behalf of national security interests since WWII.

As Venezuela Collapses, Children Are Dying of Hunger


Venezuela’s refugee exodus is the biggest crisis in the hemisphere
- The Washington Post

Brazil slams Venezuela as measles spreads across border

Polio returns to Venezuela 30 years after eradication as crisis cripples health care system

 

[Baka's Weird Case]

As Venezuela Collapses, Children Are Dying of Hunger


Venezuela’s refugee exodus is the biggest crisis in the hemisphere
- The Washington Post

Brazil slams Venezuela as measles spreads across border

how will a military coup that will lead to a civil war solve any of these problems? and if the trump administration really gave a shyt why would they ban all venezuelans from entering the US?

 

[88m3]

how will a military coup that will lead to a civil war solve any of these problems? and if the trump administration really gave a shyt why would they ban all venezuelans from entering the US?

Everything else has failed, there is no end in sight, and things are getting worse. Lets let every country in the region be destabilized before doing anything doesn't seem like a safe bet.

Venezuela was on the no-fly list idk if they made the final cut(yes that's still happening). People with measles probably can't afford to flee to the US but it's a direct threat for their overland neighbors. There was a measles breakout in Florida recently though that could be connected. Not letting people come to the US escaping violence and hunger doesn't seem very humane to me either.

 

[Baka's Weird Case]

Everything else has failed, there is no end in sight, and things are getting worse. Lets let every country in the region be destabilized before doing anything doesn't seem like a safe bet.

Venezuela was on the no-fly list idk if they made the final cut(yes that's still happening). People with measles probably can't afford to flee to the US but it's a direct threat for their overland neighbors. There was a measles breakout in Florida recently though that could be connected. Not letting people come to the US escaping violence and hunger doesn't seem very humane to me either.

but that will happen if there is a coup attempt. and there will be many possible outcomes - if the coup outright fails the human rights situation will not only likely worsen, the US will be implicated and regional confidence will plummet. if it succeeds there is a civil war which like @ZoeGod already said, the region cannot afford.
this is a no-win situation but the best bad option is containment of the current crisis - vaccination and housing of refugees. attempting to overthrow maduro will complicate it for the worse.

 

[88m3]

but that will happen if there is a coup attempt. and there will be many possible outcomes - if the coup outright fails the human rights situation will not only likely worsen, the US will be implicated and regional confidence will plummet. if it succeeds there is a civil war which like @ZoeGod already said, the region cannot afford.
this is a no-win situation but the best bad option is containment of the current crisis - vaccination and housing of refugees. attempting to overthrow maduro will complicate it for the worse.

If there's a coup or military intervention the situation will be become worse momentarily but in the long run things would stabilize and improve.

Containment doesn't work and isn't humane. The crisis is already spreading throughout the region. Venezuela doesn't want international help for the most part. Also depending on the aid that is given you're propping up a dictatorship that is creating the issues in the first place.

 

[Baka's Weird Case]

If there's a coup or military intervention the situation will be become worse momentarily but in the long run things would stabilize and improve.

Containment doesn't work and isn't humane. The crisis is already spreading throughout the region. Venezuela doesn't want international help for the most part. Also depending on the aid that is given you're propping up a dictatorship that is creating the issues in the first place.

thats a huge assumption and risk. theres no guarantee that those actions would even be successful and that a civil war would not be much worse in the long run. that sounds like unfounded confidence and you taking a positive outcome for granted.

 

[88m3]

thats a huge assumption and risk. theres no guarantee that those actions would even be successful and that a civil war would not be much worse in the long run. that sounds like unfounded confidence and you taking a positive outcome for granted.

You're already at rock bottom

 

[Baka's Weird Case]

You're already at rock bottom

i dont agree but i also dont think our back and forth is getting either of us anywhere new... if the US does go through with this we can see whos prediction works out

 

[ZoeGod]

If there's a coup or military intervention the situation will be become worse momentarily but in the long run things would stabilize and improve.

Containment doesn't work and isn't humane. The crisis is already spreading throughout the region. Venezuela doesn't want international help for the most part. Also depending on the aid that is given you're propping up a dictatorship that is creating the issues in the first place.

The situation is grave in Venezuela but it’scomplex. Makes sense why Obama and even Trump according to the NYT are hesitant to support a coup. The best situation is an internal coup where Party members and parts of the military take out Maduro. That way it makes for an easy transition. However supporting rebel military memebers will lead to more bloodshed and chaos. You have to understand Chávez purged the top military officers and filled them with PSUV loyalist. And has given them great economic benefits which include drug trafficking routes which is why the nation is a narco state. Do a coup and it could lead to the army break apart through different factions.
Plus Chávez did what Aristide did in Haiti. He armed his supporters with weapons. After Aristide was deposed in 2004 his armed supporters waged a reign of terror in Port au Prince and the surrounding areas. Look up Operation Baghdad. It wasn’t until Préval was elected who was part of the same party as Aristide that the gangs stopped their campaign of terror. Expect the same to occur all across Venezuela.
The Bolivarian National Guard, and militias are basically a praetorian guard to protect the regime from invasion or a coup. The national militia itself is 300-500,000 strong. What will happen to them in a coup? If they fight back you have a bloody war in your hands. Plus the Colectivos are heavily armed. And then there is the pranes aka the Mega gangs of Venezuela. Will the US or the new Venezuelan govt work with them to take out the Colectivos and take over their territories? Will they be a new paramilitary death squad to hunt down Chavismo supporters leading to more bloodshed? Plus will this make them more stronger in the long term that the new govt cannot take them out. Basically they become more powerful than Escobar was in the late 80s and early 90s in Colombia. See it’s very hard and complex to what to do with Venezuela. Also the opposition in Venezuela are not united and disorganized.

If you try a US backed coup there is so many cons. If it fails it will lead to a harsher crackdown and more authoritarian Maduro regime. If it succeeds you now pissed of hundreds of thousands of heavily armed Chavismo supporters. Which could lead to a long and bloody civil war which will have massive ramifications in the region. Toppling a regime is easy but keeping the peace is difficult. It would take a Marshall Plan to help Venezuela but the neighboring countries are all in bad economic shape. Plus Trump and the Republican policies are going to lead to another Great Recession soon. The more peel the onions Venezuela looks it could become a Libya of the Andes.

 

[Jhoon]

Discussing coups is American as Dancing with the Stars. How many of those discussions focused on what comes after the coup.

I feel like this is a Seinfeld Car Rental episode. Anyone can discuss a coup. Did they not learn anything about the Marshall Plan?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I know about the Chechen Wars and the atrocities that Russia and China commit. My thing is both nations don’t pretend to be about human rights. They ain’t shyt. But the US puts this facade that they care about human rights and against war crimes meanwhile the US is just as bad as Russia and China in this regard. The US is a hypocritical superpower. At least you in this thread keep it a buck that it’s not about the Venezuelan people or to mitigate the humanitarian crisis. Simple geopolitics. I respect that even though I don’t agree with it. But don’t cry crocodile tears for the Venezuelan people while the people in Yemen are going through worst with US approval, with US aid and US advice.

but this isn't about Yemen

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

. The best situation is an internal coup where Party members and parts of the military take out Maduro.

The irony