Two Jews debate about Jesus (Good Conversation)

[DoubleClutch]

Just randomly found this video. They cover some good topics like Prophecy, Oral Torah, Jewish Traditions, Jesus, Christianity, etc….

I Learned a few new things

But I have a question,

Someone Jewish (@Koichos) has to clear up to me what the Oral Torah is, why it’s needed and how it works because the way the Orthodox Jew explained it has me like

The analogy he used makes it sound like the equivalent of Hadiths to the Quran

Also, what does he mean by “we are a stubborn people” and it being a GOOD THING?

Israel being “stubborn” is the reason for most their problems or situations in the Bible narrative featured in many instances (such as them wandering the wilderness)

A (messianic) jew who believes in Jesus makes an Orthodox Jews “blood boil”

This can’t be the opinion of ALL Orthodox Jews I know…. Same as not all Jews REFUSE to read the “New Testament” and “don’t care what’s in it”

I think most religious/practicing Jews are curious about the gospels at least and if not them, definitely the rabbis Id assume must know all about Jesus and his teachings just to

One big takeaway from the video is the question:

how are non Jews supposed to know about God and Abraham, Isaac, Jacob….Moses, and all the Noahide laws, etc if Jewish people don’t actively go out, live amongst and teach non Jews?

Is THIS where they see the need/role of ISLAM to fulfill?

Are Muslims actually doing the Jews a favor? @MMS

 

[MMS]

One big takeaway from the video is the question:

how are non Jews supposed to know about God and Abraham, Isaac, Jacob….Moses, and all the Noahide laws, etc if Jewish people don’t actively go out, live amongst and teach non Jews?

Is THIS where they see the need/role of ISLAM to fulfill?

Are Muslims actually doing the Jews a favor? @MMS

i dunno about the rest of the video but you're spot on with the last two lines with respect to "how are non-jews suppoesd to know"

remember, "rhe religion of abraham"

who is Abraham? he is a man waxened old during his time in Genesis. He does not have children until hes in his 70s or 80s

with respect to the time period, thats absurd... most people in ancient times got married and had children pretty quick
remember "the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God"

what if the story about Abraham is as much truth as it is foolishness (hear me out)?

you don't know how many times God has "made" Abraham. So with Abraham you are most likely not keeping score/time to know how slowly or quickly God is causing people to know his people (across generations)

when I watch chess masters play, when they take the opponent's pieces i rarely see them shuffle them off the board and display them to onlookers

Spoiler

Surah Yusuf - 6 - Quran.com

And so will your Lord choose you ˹O Joseph˺, and teach you the interpretation of dreams, and perfect His favour upon you and the descendants of Jacob—...

quran.com

 

[DoubleClutch]

who is Abraham? he is a man waxened old during his

what if the story about Abraham is as much truth as it is foolishness (hear me out)?

you don't know how many times God has "made" Abraham.

You might need to explain what you mean by these statements.

And the whole video is good you should watch it.

I think the (messianic) Jew point is that JESUS or his disciples at least (mainly Paul) did the work in spreading the knowledge of the God of Abraham and Bible stories to non Jews/gentiles

Obviously that’s historically accurate.

But the religious narrative that Jews and Muslims later would develop is that Jesus “only came for Jews” and Jews aren’t supposed to evangelize but remain set apart

Like the Orthodox Jew said in the video, it’s not their desire that any non Jew ethnically at least “convert” to being jewish

Anyways, it’s a pretty complicated idea/theory but kinda makes sense when you realize how Arabs began islam and how that developed into a NEW religion

But now we’re back talking about Islam again

 

[MMS]

You might need to explain what you mean by these statements.

And the whole video is good you should watch it.

I think the (messianic) Jew point is that JESUS or his disciples at least (mainly Paul) did the work in spreading the knowledge of the God of Abraham and Bible stories to non Jews/gentiles

Obviously that’s historically accurate.

But the religious narrative that Jews and Muslims later would develop is that Jesus “only came for Jews” and Jews aren’t supposed to evangelize but remain set apart

Like the Orthodox Jew said in the video, it’s not their desire that any non Jew ethnically at least “convert” to being jewish

that it might represent a polemic against waiting to have children

his first son, his name means "God hears", and his second name means "He will laugh"

and Jesus did only come for the Jews. In his repeated statements he said he must "suffer many things by the chief scribes"

if those words are from God that can be expanded to mean more than it appears