U.S. Prison Chiefs Visit Norway Prisons & Mind Blown By Norway's Treatment Of Inmates...

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

The goal isn't for everyone to come out, but most are in for their owns crimes against humanity or the be short, not treating humans like humans.

Prison needs reform, but many criminals have no desire to reform. That's just keeping it real. And the reason we do a lot of this song and dance is due to racism that leads to imbalanced sentencing, imbalanced arrests, imbalanced convictions, and the desire to perpetrate these and other norms for prison to turn a profit.

We can discuss not paying inmates and forcing them into slave labor. We can criticize prison for not rehabiliting those who seek it, but there's nothing immoral about punishing criminals a priori.

There’s always a few people behind redeeming, but the system itself is rotten to the core. There’s a reason some 76% of American prisoners end up going back. It’s designed to make sure you come out worse and can’t earn a living wage while being treated like less than a human being after getting out which forces you to turn to crime so that you don’t have to work 50+ hours at minimum wage just to keep the rent in a tiny apartment paid and afford food. I used to work with a guy who got locked up for heroin possession and had even easier access to it in jail than he had in the projects where he lived when he got locked up. Couldn’t kick his habit until he got out because there was so much of it around him all the time and they didn’t even make an effort to help him get clean. This sort of thing is a regular occurrence that they don’t want anyone to become a better person by the time they get out.

 

[Big Blue]

I get the point, but prison isn't just a point of rehabilitation, it's also a deterrent, no? Loss of freedom for many isn't enough of a deterrent.

 

[Ya' Cousin Cleon]

Cuba has had similar programs. Y ou could even get medical training I believe.

 

[Pressure]

Both,
Neither system is beneficial for the betterment of society.

Treating ppl with respect, giving them a purpose (education, trade skills, etc.) and giving them the required treatment to change current behaviours is sorely lacking in the North American “ just lock em in a cage and punish them” system

I was completely unaware of how Canadian prison work.

That said, I think it's naive to suggest that all criminals are in jail because they lack skills.

There’s always a few people behind redeeming, but the system itself is rotten to the core. There’s a reason some 76% of American prisoners end up going back. It’s designed to make sure you come out worse and can’t earn a living wage while being treated like less than a human being after getting out which forces you to turn to crime so that you don’t have to work 50+ hours at minimum wage just to keep the rent in a tiny apartment paid and afford food. I used to work with a guy who got locked up for heroin possession and had even easier access to it in jail than he had in the projects where he lived when he got locked up. Couldn’t kick his habit until he got out because there was so much of it around him all the time and they didn’t even make an effort to help him get clean. This sort of thing is a regular occurrence that they don’t want anyone to become a better person by the time they get out.

There parts about prison that are certainly corrupt, but much of what we're talking about here has to do with societies issues being laid bare through prison.

Drug abuse/treatment.
Low wages/high cost of living.
Low education/parenting.

Many of the issues that the excon experiences are the same experiences that many law abiding citizens experience. Many of the issues that place people in the prison system in the first place.

Proactive things I saw under Obama that addressed the prison aspect were

• Moving away from private prisons
• Lowering sentences
• Suggesting drug scheduling is changed
• Moving away from the war on drugs and towards rehabilitation/decriminalization
• Removing the are you excon check box.
• Investigations into police departments

There's certainly more to be done, but I'm pretty sure those last bullet points have been turned on its head.

Further addressing the income gap, etc.

 

[Listen]

I get the point, but prison isn't just a point of rehabilitation, it's also a deterrent, no? Loss of freedom for many isn't enough of a deterrent.

You don't care about lack of freedom when you have grown up feeling like you had none to begin with.

No hope, no guidance, no opportunities, no choices leads to a 'fukk it' mentality about incarceration. If you went to do a bid, and it was only 18 months, you didn't have to deal with prison violence/culture as it is today, and they cared for you, trained you, and gave you hope for the future, you would learn to understand the freedom you always had but never felt.

 

[Maschine_Man]

I was completely unaware of how Canadian prison work.

That said, I think it's naive to suggest that all criminals are in jail because they lack skills.

where did I say that? I didn't say the reason they were in jail was because they lack skills.

 

[50CentStan]

Euros are soft B. If You have prison like that here the homies really won't give af

 

[Maschine_Man]

I get the point, but prison isn't just a point of rehabilitation, it's also a deterrent, no? Loss of freedom for many isn't enough of a deterrent.

but since the deterrent part is CLEARLY not working, maybe we should try something that not just changes ppls behaviors, but sets them up for a better future.

 

[tmonster]

corrupt politicians need hatred as a political tool, who is easier to hate than convicted people
you can't have nice things like that in this country until you get rid of political corruption

 

[staticshock]

but that's my point.

THAT is part of the conditioning that I am talking about. Just as Europeans are more liberal with Sex and we are the same way with violence.

Here we don't look at violence as something out of the ordinary...where in fact we should. We need to change that type of thinking.

rappers make too much to stop rapping about killing each other. it will never stop

 

[Maschine_Man]

rappers make too much to stop rapping about killing each other. it will never stop

Society doesn’t begin or end with what rappers say or do.

Rappers are simple, they will rap about anything that sells. Right now violence and shyt sells. But if society changes so will they.

 

[Black Panther]

Why Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Deserve the Black Vote

but you leave that motel whenever you want, the point is loss of freedom.

A 2007 report on recidivism released by the US Department of Justice found that strict incarceration actually increases offender recidivism, while facilities that incorporate "cognitive-behavioral programs rooted in social learning theory" are the most effective at keeping ex-cons out of jail.

The election is over.

But I otherwise agree with you here. You cannot shape a prisoner into a productive member of society by isolating them from societal norms and treating them like caged animals.
The goal of incarceration should be rehabilitation, not merely punishment, and certainly not as a slave labor force.

 

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

but that's my point.

THAT is part of the conditioning that I am talking about. Just as Europeans are more liberal with Sex and we are the same way with violence.

Here we don't look at violence as something out of the ordinary...where in fact we should. We need to change that type of thinking.

Both the U.S. and most European nations are the way they are because of their violent past. The U.S became the dominant nation over the last 100 years precisely because of its willingness to use violence. The Euros are on the opposite spectrum because of the effects of their violent history (from the middle ages through WW2).

 

[Maschine_Man]

Both the U.S. and most European nations are the way they are because of their violent past. The U.S became the dominant nation over the last 100 years precisely because of its willingness to use violence. The Euros are on the opposite spectrum because of the effects of their violent history (from the middle ages through WW2).

EVERY country has some kind of violent history. the world is and always has been a very violent place.

that however, shouldn't stop us from looking at ways to improve and make better changes to the way we think and act.

 

[Prince.Skeletor]

Both the U.S. and most European nations are the way they are because of their violent past.

No it is for $$$$$$$$$