"Voter suppression laws should stay in place because minorities are voting too much"

theworldismine13

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:mjlol::mjlol::mjlol:

"the article said so"

"no it didn't"

"well yeah, it didn't say that, but that was the gist, which is nowhere to be found in the text"

:mjlol::mjlol::mjlol:

you never are going to admit that you didn't read the article are you?

:mjlol:



im being gracious by suggesting you didn't read the article, cuz it could also be you're a total idiot
 

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First it was:

there is nothing wrong in my logic, whats amazing is you and many others ignore basic facts

the basic facts are that the story posted by @Bollywood Hulk Hogan is a story asserting that voter id laws dont effect the black vote, that right there should give everybody pause, cuz 90% of the people posting in this thread missed that

its not just me saying that voter id laws dont effect the black vote its the right wing newspaper known as the NY Times that is saying it

and sorry some little tweet be some random twitter person did not debunk the NY Times story

reality said it didnt effect the black vote in AL, the NY times is simply reporting reality


Then when I point out the NYT story doesn't say anything like that, because it didn't happen, you say:

an article in the nytimes isnt going to make an explicit statement like that on a controversial issue

:dead:




an article in the nytimes isnt going to make an explicit statement like that on a controversial issue, but that was the gist of the article

sure you can speculate and theorize but in the end its the data that matters, at this point in time the data shows that voter id laws do not effect the black vote

the difference between white and black in terms of id is statistically insignificant

No, that is a total lie. The New York Times said that the issue gets complicated because most people are too dumb to understand that it doesn't affect every election the same way. I've explained it to you slowly 10 times now, and either you really are too dumb to understand math or you're just straight racist.

Which is it? :mjpls:

THIS is straight facts from the NYT story. You haven't countered them with anything:

"Like only 12 other states, Alabama does not permit early voting, which is disproportionately used by minorities and the poor. Its restrictions on voting by people with felony records were recently relaxed, but remain among the nation’s toughest and likely curb black turnout. The state’s voter ID law, which was challenged in federal court, threatened to disenfranchise at least 100,000 registered voters, many of them black or Hispanic, according to the N.A.A.C.P. Legal Defense Fund. And a panel of federal judges ruled this year that 12 state legislative districts had been gerrymandered to dilute African-American voting power. The congressional map is also gerrymandered."

" "One recent academic study concluded that the historic turnout gap between white and minority voters increased sharply — as much as fivefold — in states with the strictest voter ID laws, producing a “clear partisan distortion” favoring Republicans."

Notice that Voter ID laws have affected a LOT of elections. I don't know how you can ignore that right in the middle of the article you caped for? :why:

Yes, it isn't most people, and because it isn't most people then it WON'T have as big an effect on a special election, where only the hardcore voters vote. But you can't prove no effect cause you have no idea how many black people would have voted in that particular election without such laws.

What part of this is so hard for you to understand? :gucci:[/QUOTE]
 

theworldismine13

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First it was:








Then when I point out the NYT story doesn't say anything like that, because it didn't happen, you say:



:dead:

again here is the tweet that you were vehemently defending



DID YOU READ THE TWEET THAT YOU WROTE A WHOLE ESSAY ABOUT? THE PREMISE OF THE TWEETS IS A REBUTTAL TO THE NY TIMES ARTICLE!

why are you so vehemently defending a tweet whose premise you disagree with?

if he NY Times article was NOT saying that the voter ID laws did not effect the black vote then the prestigious Wesley Lowery would not have made the tweet


No, that is a total lie. The New York Times said that the issue gets complicated because most people are too dumb to understand that it doesn't affect every election the same way. I've explained it to you slowly 10 times now, and either you really are too dumb to understand math or you're just straight racist.

Which is it? :mjpls:


i saw your explanation and for the third time, where is the data to back up your assertion that voter id laws effect general elections and dont effect special elections?

why do you continue to make assertions without any data?

Notice that Voter ID laws have affected a LOT of elections. I don't know how you can ignore that right in the middle of the article you caped for? :why:

Yes, it isn't most people, and because it isn't most people then it WON'T have as big an effect on a special election, where only the hardcore voters vote. But you can't prove no effect cause you have no idea how many black people would have voted in that particular election without such laws.

What part of this is so hard for you to understand? :gucci:

actually there is no conclusive evidence that voter id laws effect the vote, there is a theory/hypotheses that voter id suppresses the black vote, that is simply an assertion, there is no data to back that assertion up

this is a link that you just posted
https://ccis.ucsd.edu/_files/journals/6voter-identification-laws-and-the-suppression.pdf

EVALUATING VOTER ID LAWS
Unfortunately, despite all of the partisan and political debate, we have relatively little empirical data on the consequences of these laws.


this is a polticafact article that looked at the numbers
Black voter turnout exceeds white voter turnout, even in states with strict ID laws, pundit claims

The ruling

Riley said "black voter turnout in 2012 exceeded the rate of white voter turnout, even in the states with the strictest voter ID laws," despite the Democrats claiming the voter ID laws suppress the black vote.

While there is debate about the reasons why -- and if the phenomenon will last -- Riley's statistic checks out. Census data shows that indeed, for the first time ever, black voter turnout was higher nationally than white voter turnout, and at least just as high in the states with strict voter ID laws.

We rate this claim True.

the difference between me and you is that everything i say backed up by facts and data
 

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Why do you even post on a message board when you can't read? :mjlol:

You haven't posted ONE fact that says that voter ID doesn't effect turnout. Not ONE.

The best you've found is, "There hadn't been much evidence before now" and that was from the preface of a paper that PROVIDED the evidence for you.:mjlol:

The rest of the stuff you posted is either irrelevant or actually goes against your argument, but you're too rock-brained to realize it. :mjlol:

PLEASE, find anyone who understands statistics even a little bit and pass those things by him and have him explain it to you so you understand. :francis:

And talking about Black people voting more than White people in 2012? When Obama was running? You actually believe that White people should always be ahead of Black people no matter who the candidate is? :usure:

And that was 2012! A full year before Shelby vs. Holder was even decided! You CAN'T tell me that you're bringing up elections before Shelby vs. Holder as your proof. :mjlol:


Yet again, these are the only facts about the effects of racist voting laws that have been posted in this thread....you've posted nothing.

"Like only 12 other states, Alabama does not permit early voting, which is disproportionately used by minorities and the poor. Its restrictions on voting by people with felony records were recently relaxed, but remain among the nation’s toughest and likely curb black turnout. The state’s voter ID law, which was challenged in federal court, threatened to disenfranchise at least 100,000 registered voters, many of them black or Hispanic, according to the N.A.A.C.P. Legal Defense Fund. And a panel of federal judges ruled this year that 12 state legislative districts had been gerrymandered to dilute African-American voting power. The congressional map is also gerrymandered."

" "One recent academic study concluded that the historic turnout gap between white and minority voters increased sharply — as much as fivefold — in states with the strictest voter ID laws, producing a “clear partisan distortion” favoring Republicans."
 
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actually there is no conclusive evidence that voter id laws effect the vote, there is a theory/hypotheses that voter id suppresses the black vote, that is simply an assertion, there is no data to back that assertion up

this is a link that you just posted
https://ccis.ucsd.edu/_files/journals/6voter-identification-laws-and-the-suppression.pdf

"EVALUATING VOTER ID LAWS
Unfortunately, despite all of the partisan and political debate, we have relatively little empirical data on the consequences of these laws."

You are such a fukking liar, that's from the PREFACE to the paper. Here's what the actual paper said:

"The pattern in both primary and general elections is clear. There are substantial drops in minority turnout in strict voter ID states and no real changes in white turnout. Hispanic turnout is 7.1 percentage points lower in strict voter ID states than it is in other states in general elections and 5.3 points lower in primary elections. For blacks, the gap is negligible in general elections but a full 4.6 percentage points in primaries. For Asian Americans, the difference is 5.4 points and 6.2 points. And for multiracial Americans, turnout is 5.3 percentage points lower in strict voter ID states in general elections and 6.7 points lower in primary contests. White turnout is relatively flat, and, if anything, it increases slightly in strict identification states. The increase for white turnout in strict ID states is 0.2 percentage points in general elections and 0.4 points in primary elections.

The end result is, in most cases, a substantial increase in the gap between white and nonwhite turnout in strict voter ID states"


"The results, which are presented in the first two columns of table 1, suggest that minorities are being disproportionately and negatively affected. The effects are perhaps most consistent for Latinos, but across the different types of contests, there are strong signs that strict identification laws decrease turnout for Latinos, blacks, and Asian Americans, and some indications that they also do so for multiracial Americans. In general elections, Latinos are significantly more burdened by these laws than are whites and members of other groups. For blacks and Asian Americans, the interaction coefficient is negative but beyond the .05 significance level. In primary elections, Latinos, blacks, and Asian Americans are all significantly more affected and multiracial Americans are almost significantly more affected. In all cases, the significant effects are politically meaningful. The models reveal substantial drops in turnout for minorities under strict voter ID laws. In the general elections, the model predicts that Latinos are 10% less likely to turn out in states with strict ID laws than in states without strict ID regulations, all else equal. These effects are almost as large in primary elections. Here, a strict ID law could be expected to depress Latino turnout by 9.3 percentage points, black turnout by 8.6 points, and Asian American turnout by 12.5 points. Given the already low turnout of most of these groups across the country, these declines are all the more noteworthy.

Importantly, as illustrated by figure 2, these laws serve not only to diminish minority participation but also to increase the gap in the participation rate between whites and nonwhites."


You should have a neg train ran on you for lying about the facts in order to :cape: for racist laws. :scust:
 

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So one data point where voter id laws were overcome through extraordinary means shows that voter id suppression laws should stay in place?

  • I have the right to vote and own a gun, but the process of owning a gun is easier than the process of being able to vote.
  • To quote The Great Debaters, "an unjust law is no law at all". If it's acknowledged that the voter id suppression laws are the 21st century version of Jim Crow voter laws, then why would anyone entertain, much less support, them?
  • How is making it difficult to vote better for the Republic? What evidence is shown to actually justify it?
  • If anecdotal evidence is not enough prove a theory wrong, then how could one data point out of 100s be enough? Even in statistics, that would be an anomaly not a theory-breaker.
  • Shouldn't the fact that I have to overcome laws to be able to exercise a basic right, be enough of a red flag?
  • Just because I can overcome multiple hurdles and roadblocks doesn't mean I should.

To be fair, I haven't read the article. But the rationale behind the title is so full of holes. These are questions off the top of my head. I would hope when I read this article, it will answer all of them.
 

theworldismine13

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Why do you even post on a message board when you can't read? :mjlol:

You haven't posted ONE fact that says that voter ID doesn't effect turnout. Not ONE.

the original article in this thread is saying that voter id did not effect turnout, according to the link you were defending



and i posted the poltifact link

The best you've found is, "There hadn't been much evidence before now" and that was from the preface of a paper that PROVIDED the evidence for you.:mjlol:

The rest of the stuff you posted is either irrelevant or actually goes against your argument, but you're too rock-brained to realize it. :mjlol:

PLEASE, find anyone who understands statistics even a little bit and pass those things by him and have him explain it to you so you understand. :francis:

And talking about Black people voting more than White people in 2012? When Obama was running? You actually believe that White people should always be ahead of Black people no matter who the candidate is? :usure:

And that was 2012! A full year before Shelby vs. Holder was even decided! You CAN'T tell me that you're bringing up elections before Shelby vs. Holder as your proof. :mjlol:


Yet again, these are the only facts about the effects of racist voting laws that have been posted in this thread....you've posted nothing.

"Like only 12 other states, Alabama does not permit early voting, which is disproportionately used by minorities and the poor. Its restrictions on voting by people with felony records were recently relaxed, but remain among the nation’s toughest and likely curb black turnout. The state’s voter ID law, which was challenged in federal court, threatened to disenfranchise at least 100,000 registered voters, many of them black or Hispanic, according to the N.A.A.C.P. Legal Defense Fund. And a panel of federal judges ruled this year that 12 state legislative districts had been gerrymandered to dilute African-American voting power. The congressional map is also gerrymandered."

" "One recent academic study concluded that the historic turnout gap between white and minority voters increased sharply — as much as fivefold — in states with the strictest voter ID laws, producing a “clear partisan distortion” favoring Republicans."
[/QUOTE]

if you look at Figure 1 from that study
gouZEKh.png


it clearly shows that the voter id laws have no impact on the black vote in the general election. It does show there is an impact on the primary, but the vote in AL showed that there was no impact

the whole point of the ny times article was to point out that voter id laws did not seem to have any impact on the black vote in a primary election and that calls into question predictions of voter black voter suppression, hence the Wesley Lowrey tweet
 

theworldismine13

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So one data point where voter id laws were overcome through extraordinary means shows that voter id suppression laws should stay in place?

  • I have the right to vote and own a gun, but the process of owning a gun is easier than the process of being able to vote.
  • To quote The Great Debaters, "an unjust law is no law at all". If it's acknowledged that the voter id suppression laws are the 21st century version of Jim Crow voter laws, then why would anyone entertain, much less support, them?
  • How is making it difficult to vote better for the Republic? What evidence is shown to actually justify it?
  • If anecdotal evidence is not enough prove a theory wrong, then how could one data point out of 100s be enough? Even in statistics, that would be an anomaly not a theory-breaker.
  • Shouldn't the fact that I have to overcome laws to be able to exercise a basic right, be enough of a red flag?
  • Just because I can overcome multiple hurdles and roadblocks doesn't mean I should.

To be fair, I haven't read the article. But the rationale behind the title is so full of holes. These are questions off the top of my head. I would hope when I read this article, it will answer all of them.

those are valid points but for the record what i said about voter id laws is that they are stupid, racist and pointless but they do not really effect the black vote because the notion that black people lack id is a myth
 

Secure Da Bag

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those are valid points but for the record what i said about voter id laws is that they are stupid, racist and pointless but they do not really effect the black vote because the notion that black people lack id is a myth

The issue has always been that the new laws forced black people, especially older ones, to get new IDs and made it unnecessarily difficult to get one. So many of them may have their IDs now, but the fact that they had to overcome the new laws to get those IDs so they can exercise a basic right is completely ridiculous. And has in fact affect voting in 2008, 2012, and 2016 and the midterms in-between. So maybe now in Alabama it isn't much of a problem, but that would be because AL has forced people to spend an inordinate amount of time getting unnecessary IDs in the first place.

Also, it's not an issue of only IDs but registering to vote and having those IDs qualified to vote. So getting an ID is only part of the problem.
 

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"Like only 12 other states, Alabama does not permit early voting, which is disproportionately used by minorities and the poor. Its restrictions on voting by people with felony records were recently relaxed, but remain among the nation’s toughest and likely curb black turnout. The state’s voter ID law, which was challenged in federal court, threatened to disenfranchise at least 100,000 registered voters, many of them black or Hispanic, according to the N.A.A.C.P. Legal Defense Fund. And a panel of federal judges ruled this year that 12 state legislative districts had been gerrymandered to dilute African-American voting power. The congressional map is also gerrymandered."

"One recent academic study concluded that the historic turnout gap between white and minority voters increased sharply — as much as fivefold — in states with the strictest voter ID laws, producing a “clear partisan distortion” favoring Republicans."


"The pattern in both primary and general elections is clear. There are substantial drops in minority turnout in strict voter ID states and no real changes in white turnout. Hispanic turnout is 7.1 percentage points lower in strict voter ID states than it is in other states in general elections and 5.3 points lower in primary elections. For blacks, the gap is negligible in general elections but a full 4.6 percentage points in primaries. For Asian Americans, the difference is 5.4 points and 6.2 points. And for multiracial Americans, turnout is 5.3 percentage points lower in strict voter ID states in general elections and 6.7 points lower in primary contests. White turnout is relatively flat, and, if anything, it increases slightly in strict identification states. The increase for white turnout in strict ID states is 0.2 percentage points in general elections and 0.4 points in primary elections.

The end result is, in most cases, a substantial increase in the gap between white and nonwhite turnout in strict voter ID states"


"The results, which are presented in the first two columns of table 1, suggest that minorities are being disproportionately and negatively affected. The effects are perhaps most consistent for Latinos, but across the different types of contests, there are strong signs that strict identification laws decrease turnout for Latinos, blacks, and Asian Americans, and some indications that they also do so for multiracial Americans. In general elections, Latinos are significantly more burdened by these laws than are whites and members of other groups. For blacks and Asian Americans, the interaction coefficient is negative but beyond the .05 significance level. In primary elections, Latinos, blacks, and Asian Americans are all significantly more affected and multiracial Americans are almost significantly more affected. In all cases, the significant effects are politically meaningful. The models reveal substantial drops in turnout for minorities under strict voter ID laws. In the general elections, the model predicts that Latinos are 10% less likely to turn out in states with strict ID laws than in states without strict ID regulations, all else equal. These effects are almost as large in primary elections. Here, a strict ID law could be expected to depress Latino turnout by 9.3 percentage points, black turnout by 8.6 points, and Asian American turnout by 12.5 points. Given the already low turnout of most of these groups across the country, these declines are all the more noteworthy.

Importantly, as illustrated by figure 2, these laws serve not only to diminish minority participation but also to increase the gap in the participation rate between whites and nonwhites."




The amount of juelzing that's gone on here by ONE poster to :cape: for racist laws is downright ridiculous.

Keep claiming that an out-of-context graph or the raw results of a single election contradict the authors' own damn conclusions from their own study. :mjlol::snoop:
 

theworldismine13

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"Like only 12 other states, Alabama does not permit early voting, which is disproportionately used by minorities and the poor. Its restrictions on voting by people with felony records were recently relaxed, but remain among the nation’s toughest and likely curb black turnout. The state’s voter ID law, which was challenged in federal court, threatened to disenfranchise at least 100,000 registered voters, many of them black or Hispanic, according to the N.A.A.C.P. Legal Defense Fund. And a panel of federal judges ruled this year that 12 state legislative districts had been gerrymandered to dilute African-American voting power. The congressional map is also gerrymandered."

"One recent academic study concluded that the historic turnout gap between white and minority voters increased sharply — as much as fivefold — in states with the strictest voter ID laws, producing a “clear partisan distortion” favoring Republicans."


"The pattern in both primary and general elections is clear. There are substantial drops in minority turnout in strict voter ID states and no real changes in white turnout. Hispanic turnout is 7.1 percentage points lower in strict voter ID states than it is in other states in general elections and 5.3 points lower in primary elections. For blacks, the gap is negligible in general elections but a full 4.6 percentage points in primaries. For Asian Americans, the difference is 5.4 points and 6.2 points. And for multiracial Americans, turnout is 5.3 percentage points lower in strict voter ID states in general elections and 6.7 points lower in primary contests. White turnout is relatively flat, and, if anything, it increases slightly in strict identification states. The increase for white turnout in strict ID states is 0.2 percentage points in general elections and 0.4 points in primary elections.

The end result is, in most cases, a substantial increase in the gap between white and nonwhite turnout in strict voter ID states"


"The results, which are presented in the first two columns of table 1, suggest that minorities are being disproportionately and negatively affected. The effects are perhaps most consistent for Latinos, but across the different types of contests, there are strong signs that strict identification laws decrease turnout for Latinos, blacks, and Asian Americans, and some indications that they also do so for multiracial Americans. In general elections, Latinos are significantly more burdened by these laws than are whites and members of other groups. For blacks and Asian Americans, the interaction coefficient is negative but beyond the .05 significance level. In primary elections, Latinos, blacks, and Asian Americans are all significantly more affected and multiracial Americans are almost significantly more affected. In all cases, the significant effects are politically meaningful. The models reveal substantial drops in turnout for minorities under strict voter ID laws. In the general elections, the model predicts that Latinos are 10% less likely to turn out in states with strict ID laws than in states without strict ID regulations, all else equal. These effects are almost as large in primary elections. Here, a strict ID law could be expected to depress Latino turnout by 9.3 percentage points, black turnout by 8.6 points, and Asian American turnout by 12.5 points. Given the already low turnout of most of these groups across the country, these declines are all the more noteworthy.

Importantly, as illustrated by figure 2, these laws serve not only to diminish minority participation but also to increase the gap in the participation rate between whites and nonwhites."




The amount of juelzing that's gone on here by ONE poster to :cape: for racist laws is downright ridiculous.

Keep claiming that an out-of-context graph or the raw results of a single election contradict the authors' own damn conclusions from their own study. :mjlol::snoop:

Why do you keep saying that I’m defending the law when I repeatedly said that voter id laws are stupid and racist?

All I’m saying is that the notion that black people have no id is a myth and that voter id laws do not suppress the black vote #facts
 

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He stays on deceiving, printing a graph from a single election (2012) in which a Black man was running for president and Black voting rates were at a historic high, and claims that proves what has "always" been true.

The fact that a ton of Black people voted in 2012 when Obama was running for reelection doesn't tell you anything about how many Black people weren't able to vote that year. You keep on staying with the low expectations for Black people. If they went to the polls at a rate 3% higher than White people did, you insist that there's no way it would have been 5% higher or 8% higher without the racist laws?

And as I pointed out to you already, 2012 was BEFORE Shelby vs. Holder was even decided. All the worst laws came AFTER the Supreme Court pretty much destroyed the Voting Rights Act in 2013 and southern states got the go-ahead to pass more racist laws without federal pre-approval.

Why are you caping so hard for this? :mindblown:


Reported for caping for racist laws and being deceptive in the process of it.
 
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