"WAS THERE A CONSPIRACY TO GET RID OF CONSCIOUS RAP???" | DJ RED ALERT GIVES US THE HISTORY...

[IllmaticDelta]

The white labels originally were never going to put out any of what we now called Gangsta Rap





it wasn't until they saw it had an unknown market (white kids) that were making these records sell




did Gangsta rap become a thing to put out for profit. So basically, Gangsta Rap being so big was a product of the consumers/audience, not any conspiracy by higher ups.

 

[O.Red]

The white labels originally were never going to put out any of what we now called Gangsta Rap





it wasn't until they saw it had an unknown market (white kids) that were making these records sell




did Gangsta rap become a thing to put out for profit. So basically, Gangsta Rap being so big was a product of the consumers/audience, not any conspiracy by higher ups.

Exactly

It's easy to cook up these stories of old white men in a room tricking nikkas into making gangsta rap but the truth is a lot less exciting. Gangsta rap popped off because everybody thought that shyt looked scary and cool. And the more they tried to stop it the more powerful it got

Hip Hops power is rebellion. That's what made it take over the world. Nobody could stop whatever hip hop decided to do because the PEOPLE push it to the heights it reaches

Do labels have a hand? As mainstream distributors of course they do. But in the vast majority of cases the labels are late to a party that's BEEN going on. These label execs be finding out about nikkas their KIDS fukk with

 

[Piff Perkins]

This logic is total bullshyt.

You don't see this dynamic you described across other musical genres, or other cultures (without influence of modern rap), nor has it been a consistent dynamic in any other time period lifetime.

Blues didn't get more subverisve and violent, neither did motown, neither does Kpop or Citypop.

Hell, if you checked on rock past that cherrypicked time pocket you would see it got less subversive/more soft & poppy as the 2000s got later and moved into the 2010s.

Nah I gotta throw the red flag. You say blues wasn't subversive because it wasn't violent, missing the point. Blues was subversive because it was black music and often discussed topics religious people deemed to be satanic. How do you think older white people reacted to the story and music of Robert Johnson?

Jazz was viewed as subversive. Not the big band, white jazz of the 50s. The drug induced, BLACK jazz of the 50s and 60s was heavily criticized and outright banned in many parts of the US.

The most popular rock music in the 60s and 70s was heavily influenced by drug cultures of the time (psychedelics, weed, etc) and it bled into the music. Alongside free love ideals, leading to an increase in sexual content in music. The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, etc were all accused of convincing teenagers to use drugs and have sex. And all of those artists were more popular than the straight laced, goody two-shoes music of the 1950s. And lets not forget the accusations of satanic music that dogged a lot of rock at the time. Especially Led Zeppelin, some of their lyrics, and the imagery/runes (Zoso).

By the 80s and 90s we got to straight up satanic panic over the drug use, violence, and "demonic" lyrics of rock and metal. You claim the music wasn't violent but have you listened to any metal from that era?


Slayer was sued for allegedly influencing murders based on the song.

No violence huh?

Metal and rock were censored and accused of advocating violence throughout the 80s. By the 90s you have entire movements accused of subversion. From grunge to nu metal. Both blamed for school shootings, violence etc based on aggressive lyrics. Multiple bands - Pearl Jam, Korn, Slipnot, etc - were accused of influencing suburban school shootings.

In conclusion let's not pretend this is only a phenomena for rap music. The most subversive music is always going to attract young boys, teens, and young men. Nor did I just "cherry pick" a few moments. Grunge and nu metal were the most seminal genres of rock in the 90s and early 00s. Metal and hard rock dominated the 80s. And drug rock dominated the 70s and much of the 60s...

 

[O.Red]

Nah I gotta throw the red flag. You say blues wasn't subversive because it wasn't violent, missing the point. Blues was subversive because it was black music and often discussed topics religious people deemed to be satanic. How do you think older white people reacted to the story and music of Robert Johnson?

Jazz was viewed as subversive. Not the big band, white jazz of the 50s. The drug induced, BLACK jazz of the 50s and 60s was heavily criticized and outright banned in many parts of the US.

The most popular rock music in the 60s and 70s was heavily influenced by drug cultures of the time (psychedelics, weed, etc) and it bled into the music. Alongside free love ideals, leading to an increase in sexual content in music. The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, etc were all accused of convincing teenagers to use drugs and have sex. And all of those artists were more popular than the straight laced, goody two-shoes music of the 1950s. And lets not forget the accusations of satanic music that dogged a lot of rock at the time. Especially Led Zeppelin, some of their lyrics, and the imagery/runes (Zoso).

By the 80s and 90s we got to straight up satanic panic over the drug use, violence, and "demonic" lyrics of rock and metal. You claim the music wasn't violent but have you listened to any metal from that era?


Slayer was sued for allegedly influencing murders based on the song.

No violence huh?

Metal and rock were censored and accused of advocating violence throughout the 80s. By the 90s you have entire movements accused of subversion. From grunge to nu metal. Both blamed for school shootings, violence etc based on aggressive lyrics. Multiple bands - Pearl Jam, Korn, Slipnot, etc - were accused of influencing suburban school shootings.

In conclusion let's not pretend this is only a phenomena for rap music. The most subversive music is always going to attract young boys, teens, and young men. Nor did I just "cherry pick" a few moments. Grunge and nu metal were the most seminal genres of rock in the 90s and early 00s. Metal and hard rock dominated the 80s. And drug rock dominated the 70s and much of the 60s...

Blues was also subversive because of it's overt(for the time) sexuality

Not to mention Rock n Roll, which was birthed from blues was originally slang for fukkin

Sex and violence will always be subversive and controversial, thus attracting kids, outcasts, and regular people seeking an outlet for aggression

 

[IllmaticDelta]

This logic is total bullshyt.

You don't see this dynamic you described across other musical genres, or other cultures (without influence of modern rap), nor has it been a consistent dynamic in any other time period lifetime.

Blues didn't get more subverisve and violent, neither did motown, neither does Kpop or Citypop.

Hell, if you checked on rock past that cherrypicked time pocket you would see it got less subversive/more soft & poppy as the 2000s got later and moved into the 2010s.

You must not have any historical grasp of what Blues music actually talked about/represented. You should check out my thread

The violent and seedy world of early Jazz and Blues, along with some of the characters of the period​

The violent and seedy world of early Jazz and Blues, along with some of the characters of the period

......the inspiration for this thread comes from that new, Buddy Bolden movie along with numerous threads/complaints on drugs, violence and crime associated with HipHop. As I've pointed out numerous times, everything negative that's highlighted about HipHop was there in the late19th/Early...

www.thecoli.com

also, see thread

Some of these old blues songs were straight up demonic​

Some of these old blues songs were straight up demonic

"I'm gonna cut your throat babe, gonna look down in your face Ahh, gonna look down in your face I'm gonna let some lonesome graveyard be your restin' place" "Says, I'll cut your throat, mama, drink your blood like wine I'll cut your throat, mama, now, drink your blood like wine Say, you can't...

www.thecoli.com

 

[EndDomination]

There's a great book that really walks through the governmental surveillance and specific corporate interest in more violent music versus more popular "conscious" music. The book is called The FBI War on Tupac and the Black Leaders. It isn't necessarily an entire indictment of popular hip-hop, but it does make you question some of the corporation's actions.

While a lot of it was and is market driven - part of the market includes the supply, and who major labels decide to push is key to that.

 

[O.Red]

Of course it was

To believe otherwise means you have not the slightest knowledge of past history.

Rap music was hijacked and WEAPONIZED against the black community mainly as a propaganda tool as someone in here has already mentioned.

Rap Music is a continuation of Minstrel Shows of the past:

Rap Music is an updated version of Minstrel Shows being used to perpetuate the most negative stereotypes of blacks to a worldwide audience, which is why the main image of rappers pushed are gangbangers, thugs and drugdealers.

And the people doing the pushing and funding look like this:

Again, if you deny this, all I can do is assume you have zero awareness of past history.

 Weaponized? You get no argument from me there

But hip hop wasn't hijacked it was SOLD. The labels came late to a party that was already going on and nikkas sold the culture for pennies.

This started in the 80s and continues now

This is just like what I was telling nikkas in the civil rights movement thread. Them crackas and Israelis came to the hood with checks and nikkas was happy to oblige

 

[get these nets]

 

[Yehuda]

Who you think is redder Red Alert or Bimmy

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Of course it was

To believe otherwise means you have not the slightest knowledge of past history.

Rap music was hijacked and WEAPONIZED against the black community mainly as a propaganda tool as someone in here has already mentioned.

Rap Music is a continuation of Minstrel Shows of the past:

Spoiler

Rap Music is an updated version of Minstrel Shows being used to perpetuate the most negative stereotypes of blacks to a worldwide audience, which is why the main image of rappers pushed are gangbangers, thugs and drugdealers.

And the people doing the pushing and funding look like this:

Again, if you deny this, all I can do is assume you have zero awareness of past history.

Not really. Minstrel era was actually white people depicting the music of black people as they saw it/their own perceptions of black people from afar.

Gangsta Rap's origin has nothing to do with white people's perception of black people but instead, the music/portrayls came straight from black people depicting their lives/environment. This actually makes Gangsta Rap more analogous to the Blaxploitation era, which was also started by black people, independent of white influences

time stamped

 

[get these nets]

Nah....the record buying hip hop audience represented a certain number...when NWA started selling more than the acutal reigning stars of hip hop....it's obvious that it was white kids buying the records

NWA, out the gate on Ruthless were selling more records than peak EPMD, Rakim,Krs-One, and BDK

NWA happened to have 2 of the best rappers/lyricists EVER in the same camp writing the songs......and one of the best hiphop producers ever manning the boards..so they were putting out heat....but they and gangsta rap got so popular because of white kids.

From a previous thread

NWA sold platinum group and solo Eazy E albums with little promo, and very little radio or video airplay.

Kids gravitated to it, and just like every other trend, labels hopped on it. Figuring that if projects with no marketing/promo could sell that much, then they could sell lots of albums and singles if they signed and promoted groups making hard edged records.

And they were right.

 

[get these nets]

Who you think is redder Red Alert or Bimmy

Redhead Kingpin

 

[MasterThought]

Not really. Minstrel era was actually white people depicting the music of black people as they saw it/their own perceptions of black people from afar.

Gangsta Rap's origin has nothing to do with white people's perception of black people but instead, the music/portrayls came straight from black people depicting their lives/environment. This actually makes Gangsta Rap more analogous to the Blaxploitation era, which was also started by black people, independent of white influences

time stamped

0:00 - :10


My brother, if you don't understand by now that the government/ CIA itself is behind rap music propaganda I don't know what to tell ya.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

0:00 - :10


My brother, if you don't understand by now that the government/ CIA itself is behind rap music propaganda I don't know what to tell ya.

...it's simple. No white kids = gangsta rap would never had blown up. These same white youth are the reason we had the Rock n Roll revolution 30-40 years before gangsta rap

 

[MasterThought]

...it's simple. No white kids = gangsta rap would never had blown up. These same white youth are the reason we had the Rock n Roll revolution 30-40 years before gangsta rap

I agree. That's how propaganda works bro.

That's why ((they)) made rap music the most popular artform in the world

The entire point of the propaganda was to push the image of the dangerous , savage, menace to society black man to the other races.

That's how racism is created.

The same Cacs who grow up listening to and watching this stereotypical version of black people grow up to become lawyers, police officers and judges.

Subconsciously, seeing black people act like savages in rap music, they link blacks with criminal behavior.

Black people and criminality becomes intertwine through "entertainment". That's how propaganda works.

So yes, you are correct. White people WERE needed for gangster rap to blow up. They were the intended audience just like Minstrel Shows of the past.