Was there more equality back then or now between men and women?

[bcrusaderw]

It is no more natural to be subjugated by another race as it is to lose a war against another race. That stuff happens but it's not an intractable fact like women being weaker than men is. Also, races aren't "led" by other races. There has never been such a thing. Going back to the question of women, they basically follow whichever man is in charge and when that order changes, the women merely follow. Only men can take true leadership. This has been the case since the dawn of human history.

And war hasn't happened since the dawn of time? In war there is always a winner and loser. War is natural. The winner of war subjugates the loser, and in most cases war happens etween differing groups.

 

[godkiller]

Does the Caribbean count? I just found this on google
"
Abstract:

This paper analyzes gender earnings gaps in Barbados and Jamaica, using a matching comparisons approach. In both countries, as in most of the Caribbean region, females’ educational achievement is higher than that of males. Nonetheless, males` earnings surpass those of their female peers. Depending on the set of control characteristics, males’ earnings surpass those of females by between 14 and 27 percent of average females’ wages in Barbados, and between 8 and 17 percent of average females’ wages in Jamaica. In the former, the highest earnings gaps are found among low-income workers. Results from both countries confirm a finding that has been recurrent with this matching approach: the complete elimination of gender occupational segregation in labor markets would increase rather than reduce gender earnings gaps. The evidence is mixed regarding segregation by economic sectors. Occupational experience, in the case of Barbados, and job tenure, in the case of Jamaica, help to explain existing gender earnings gaps"

And how does this prove that black women in black countries have a higher wage gap than is the case in other countries? Throughout most of the non-USA Americans, women have more education but make less money. Some of it is because women major in bullshyt and do not climb the job ladder like men do.

 

[Jhoon]

What a dumb fukking thread title.

 

[wet landscapes]

And how does this prove that black women have a higher wage gap than is the case in other countries? Throughout most of the non-USA Americans, women have more education but make less money.

I'm not trying to prove anything, I was just throwing more info into the discussion

 

[godkiller]

And war hasn't happened since the dawn of time? In war there is always a winner and loser. War is natural. The winner of war subjugates the loser, and in most cases war happens etween differing groups.

Winning a war is not an immutable fact of nature like determining the winner of a foot race between a man and a woman. Sometimes people and countries win; sometimes countries lose. Sometimes losing doesn't matter; sometimes winning doesn't matter. But when it comes to men and women, the latter always follow the former so the contest is fixed from the outset, like a foot race. War and gender roles are different when it comes to intractability and immutability. This discrepancy is what people mean by "natural", though perhaps that is a loaded and fallacious term to use.

 

[bcrusaderw]

..

Lol you dudes will make up anything to cling to your patriarchy. I get that's it's all you have in this society, but it's just getting sad. Since the dawn of time differing groups have warred with each other. The Chinese vs. the Mongolians, the Arabs vs. the Spaniards, and you're going to say that racial subjugation isn't a natural thing? YOU defined it as something seen through history. It never fails. You think that the subjugation of different races is wrong even though it has happened since the dawn of time, but the subjugation of the sexes is perfectly fine.

 

[Will Ross]

Lol you dudes will make up anything to cling to your patriarchy. I get that's it's all you have in this society, but it's just getting sad. Since the dawn of time differing groups have warred with each other. The Chinese vs. the Mongolians, the Arabs vs. the Spaniards, and you're going to say that racial subjugation isn't a natural thing? YOU defined it as something seen through history. It never fails. You think that the subjugation of different races is wrong even though it has happened since the dawn of time, but the subjugation of the sexes is perfectly fine.

We don't have to force women to follow us. If that was the case you would seen wars between men and woman

 

[bcrusaderw]

Winning a war is not an immutable fact of nature like determining the winner of a foot race between a man and a woman. Sometimes people and countries win; sometimes countries lose. Sometimes losing doesn't matter; sometimes winning doesn't matter. But when it comes to men and women, the latter always follow the former so the contest is fixed from the outset, like a foot race. War and gender roles are different when it comes to intractability and immutability. This discrepancy is what people mean by "natural", though perhaps that is a loaded and fallacious term to use.

I'm talking about the ACT of war, and it's outcome between different groups. It is NATURAL for one group to be above another according to your logic. You only make stink about the current racial hierarchy because it negatively affects you.

 

[godkiller]

I'm not trying to prove anything, I was just throwing more info into the discussion

Let me explain how you were actually trying to prove that the wage gap affects black women more and how you failed to do so:

You, @cloudbox , said:
"I mean the wage gap affects black women more, I think black women have rights (except for those places with female circumcision. If the women had rights/were making the decisions, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be happening)"

Then I said:
"There is a wage gap everywhere and I don't have any evidence the wage gap is worse in black countries than anywhere else on average. In some places, women can't even work, so those places would naturally have a higher wage gap, meaning black women at large have a lower one."

Then you, @cloudbox , said:
"Does the Caribbean count? I just found this on google"

Then I said:
"And how does this prove that black women have a higher wage gap than is the case in other countries? Throughout most of the non-USA Americans, women have more education but make less money."

 

[bcrusaderw]

We don't have to force women to follow us. If that was the case you would seen wars between men and woman

I would call the last 100 years of female progress a war. You also can't say that men haven't forced women to be led by men. Men often use force and rape to coerce women into doing what they want, and there is a historical context for that behavior.

 

[godkiller]

I'm talking about the ACT of war, and it's outcome between different groups. It is NATURAL for one group to be above another according to your logic. You only make stink about the current racial hierarchy because it negatively affects you.

I don't understand how my logic presupposes that it is necessarily natural for one group to be above another. My logic only supposes that it is natural for men to be in a different place than women. This logic does not apply to every condition and to every group. And, well yes, as a black person I make a "stink" about the "current racial hierarchy" because it negatively affects. Just so the fox makes a "stink" about whatever hierarchy he is in because it negatively affects him. And it is his natural right to do so. As the fox fights for his survival and victory, so should I, as much for my nation (whether that be the West or whatever), people, culture, etc.

 

[wet landscapes]

Let me explain how you were actually trying to prove that the wage gap affects black women more and how you failed to do so:

You, @cloudbox , said:
"I mean the wage gap affects black women more, I think black women have rights (except for those places with female circumcision. If the women had rights/were making the decisions, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be happening)"

Then I said:
"There is a wage gap everywhere and I don't have any evidence the wage gap is worse in black countries than anywhere else on average. In some places, women can't even work, so those places would naturally have a higher wage gap, meaning black women at large have a lower one."

Then you, @cloudbox , said:
"Does the Caribbean count? I just found this on google"

Then I said:
"And how does this prove that black women have a higher wage gap than is the case in other countries? Throughout most of the non-USA Americans, women have more education but make less money."

I never made about anything about other countries, I don't know anything about them, I said the pay gap existed, and you brought up whether or not it was bigger in other countries, so I got on google to look and post some info
why are you trying to force this into an argument

 

[bcrusaderw]

I don't understand how my logic presupposes that it is necessarily natural for one group to be above another. My logic only supposes that it is natural for men to be in a different place than women. This logic does not apply to every condition and to every group. And, well yes, as a black person I make a "stink" about the "current racial hierarchy" because it negatively affects. Just so the fox makes a "stink" about whatever hierarchy he is in because it negatively affects him. And it is his natural right to do so. As the fox fights for his survival and victory, so should I, as much for my nation (whether that be the West or whatever), people, culture, etc.

War has a fixed outcome. Since the dawn of time it has been natural that some groups are the winners and losers. In this current time one could say that the losers are blacks due to white supremacist society. That is the natural social order, so why do you try to change it? The bolded gets back to my original point. If you want to try to change something that's natural, and that has happened since the dawn of time (the subjugation of one race/group by another) then why can't women fight to change their place in society?

 

[godkiller]

I never made about anything about other countries, I don't know anything about them, I said the pay gap existed, and you brought up whether or not it was bigger in other countries, so I got on google to look and post some info
why are you trying to force this into an argument

You originally said the "wage gap affects black women more".

I said that isn't reflected in the data. You responded by posting a study on gender wage gap. I rebuked your assertions by saying that study actually doesn't support your point.

You responded by denying you ever made a point about the "wage gap affecting black women more" in the first place.

Turns out I'm right. The average gender wage gap between men and women in Egypt, an arab country, is higher than the average gender wage gap in the Carribean. This result supports my previous assertion that black women in black country have a lower wage gap than women in many non-black countries and regions, including Arabia (majority of Arabs live in Egypt). And like I have said for years, black men have always given black women rights and :

ESTIMATION OF GENDER WAGE DIFFERENTIALS IN EGYPT USING
OAXACA DECOMPOSITION TECHNIQUE
Marwa Biltagy1
ABSTRACT
This paper focuses on estimating wage differences between males and females in Egypt to
understand the determinants of gender wage gap and control of this variation. The methodology
of this paper is based on studying and analyzing the topic of wage differentials between males
and females by using Oaxaca decomposition technique. The data used in the analysis is obtained
from Egypt Labor Market Panel Survey 2006 and 2012 (ELMPS 2006, 2012), which was
presented by Central Agency for Public Mobilization and Statistics (CAPMAS) in cooperation
with Economic Research Forum (ERF). The findings of this paper help in deep understanding of
wage gap between males and females in Egypt by determining differences in wages due to real
variations in characteristics between both genders, for example, education and experience and
differences due to discrimination against women in addition to determine differences due to
selectivity bias. It is estimated that, the wage gap between males and females is 25% and 21% in
2006 and 2012, respectively. The results ascertain that the overall gap is attributed to
discrimination against women in 2006 and 2012.

 

[wet landscapes]

You originally said the "wage gap affects black women more".

I said that isn't reflected in the data. You responded by posting a study on gender wage gap. I rebuked your assertions by saying that study actually doesn't support your point.

You responded by denying you ever made a point about the "wage gap affecting black women more" in the first place.

Turns out I'm right. The average gender wage gap between men and women in Egypt, an arab country, is higher than the average gender wage gap in the Carribean. This result supports my previous assertion that black women in black country have a lower wage gap than women in many non-black countries and regions, including Arabia (majority of Arabs live in Egypt):

ESTIMATION OF GENDER WAGE DIFFERENTIALS IN EGYPT USING
OAXACA DECOMPOSITION TECHNIQUE
Marwa Biltagy1
ABSTRACT
This paper focuses on estimating wage differences between males and females in Egypt to
understand the determinants of gender wage gap and control of this variation. The methodology
of this paper is based on studying and analyzing the topic of wage differentials between males
and females by using Oaxaca decomposition technique. The data used in the analysis is obtained
from Egypt Labor Market Panel Survey 2006 and 2012 (ELMPS 2006, 2012), which was
presented by Central Agency for Public Mobilization and Statistics (CAPMAS) in cooperation
with Economic Research Forum (ERF). The findings of this paper help in deep understanding of
wage gap between males and females in Egypt by determining differences in wages due to real
variations in characteristics between both genders, for example, education and experience and
differences due to discrimination against women in addition to determine differences due to
selectivity bias. It is estimated that, the wage gap between males and females is 25% and 21% in
2006 and 2012, respectively. The results ascertain that the overall gap is attributed to
discrimination against women in 2006 and 2012.

compared to white women
I was comparing women to women

and the info is interesting