Welcome to New Jax City: Jacksonville Jaguars vs New York Jets official game thread

godkiller

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I see you're basing a lot off of this Raiders game and I'm sure you're doing the same with those 4 games last ywar where he supposedly improved. You have to base things off of big sample size. Yeah, Geno can have couple games but how long does he play like that until he slips back into his old self again ? That's where consistency comes in. You don't base a quarterback off of his last 4 games and say he's improved that's illogical. You base him off of 16 games.

There's no appropriate sample size for Geno give the circumstances and his age. Since the circumstances have changed, we have to judge Geno in the new weapon-rich environs, similar to Derek Carr and the Raiders. If the Raiders judged Carr after one year with poor weapons, they'd be doing him and themselves disservice. Responsible science demands we test QBs in different environs before we give up on them. Moreover since Geno is so young, his ability level is more variable and so we have to take this into account. Geno was not as accurate or consistent in the Raiders' game last year. He was far less accurate and inconsistently. His ball placement markedly improved this year from last.


And I'm starting figure this out. Geno is still somewhat of an unknown to yall, so Geno fans want to see what he truly is with good weapons or not. Because Geno fans give him that excuse he was hindered by not having quality players. But when does the blame fall on him ?

Fitz has never had a team like this. In his other situations he had to be more than a game manager and it failed. We ask him to play the game smart and it's going good.

You play the best quarterback. You can't just be testing quarterbacks on field, that disrupts offensive flow. And even if Geno is here, we need a quarterback. Hrs not the answer as of right now, but Geno is gone after this year. And sad part is people will keep bringing Geno up.

Geno does share some blame but then he's so young that his problems can potentially be resolved. Fitz is far older and if his problems didn't resolve a few years ago, they likely aren't going to resolve. You don't play the "best" quarterback if that quarterback cannot win anything and does not have the potential to do so. You play QBs who you think might do both.
 

TBdaGhost

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Dog....moral victories don't mean much. We always as a team played the Pats close even with Sanchez. I don't get why this year it means something
I'm not talking about moral victories. I was just saying if we can hang with the best team in the league we can hang with anyone. After one dude said I was a dumb fukk for thinking we can beat anyone lol. I must not be expressing myself very well lol
 

NYC Rebel

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I'm not talking about moral victories. I was just saying if we can hang with the best team in the league we can hang with anyone. After one dude said I was a dumb fukk for thinking we can beat anyone. I must not be expressing myself very well lol
Dog....you could have said that before
 

godkiller

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Maaan I wasnt celebrating shyt. I was saying we can hang with any team this year. Y'all just keep turning this into Fitz vs. Geno

I don't think so. I think we always play the Pats well regardless. I also think we have taken advantage of very weak teams (Jaguars, Browns, Colts, Miami and the Deadskins) with mediocre defenses and very young turnover prone QBs (Bortles, Manziel, Luck, Tannehil and Cousins). The one time we played a good (but not great) QB in Bradford, we lost.
 

TBdaGhost

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I don't think so. I think we always play the Pats well regardless. I also think we have taken advantage of very weak teams (Jaguars, Browns, Colts and the Deadskins) with very young turnover prone QBs.
No doubt we got an easy schedule.
 

Marlostanfield.

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There's no appropriate sample size for Geno give the circumstances and his age. Since the circumstances have changed, we have to judge Geno in the new weapon-rich environs, similar to Derek Carr and the Raiders. If the Raiders judged Carr after one year with poor weapons, they'd be doing him and themselves disservice. Responsible science demands we test QBs in different environs before we give up on them. Moreover since Geno is so young, his ability level is more variable and so we have to take this into account. Geno was not as accurate or consistent in the Raiders' game last year. He was far less accurate and inconsistently. His ball placement markedly improved this year from last.




Geno does share some blame but then he's so young that his problems can potentially be resolved. Fitz is far older and if his problems didn't resolve a few years ago, they likely aren't going to resolve. You don't play the "best" quarterback if that quarterback cannot win anything and does not have the potential to do so. You play QBs who you think might do both.

When I say base a quarterback off a big sample size, meaning you play the whole season out. You just can't use 4 games and say Geno has impeoved and better now. I'm not saying you give up on the quarterback after one year, you learn what made that year for quarterback and coach them things to hope he gets better. Derek Carr is looking better than he was last year, but I'm going let season play out first than make judgement because anything can happen. Remember teams get film and study. You really out how good your team is late in season, once teams have accumulated enough film and know how to a track your strengths. That's why I say Geno might look good for couple games but once teams get film and slow him down and he starts playing bad again. Can you say he's improved?

Not every quarterback can be fixed. But what is fixed? Some coaches are smart enough to categorize how good a quarterback can be. Geno will never be a top quarterback in this league because he just doesn't have mental part but he can middle tier quarterback.

But you keep forgetting we're playing Fitz how were suppose to play him, like a game manager. On Bills he was more than a game manager and he's not that. So it's easy to see why he failed.

Geno not seeing the field. He will have another shot somewhere next year and we will see how he plays.
 

godkiller

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No doubt we got an easy schedule.

Of all the QBs we have faced, the best-performing has been Kirk Cousins, who ha. Every other QB we have faced is a below average QB. We'll see what happens when we face Tyrod Taylor, Brian Hoyer, Eli Manning, Marcus Mariota, etc. If we lose these games, then we can't "beat anyone". We can only beat shytty QBs.
 

TBdaGhost

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Of all the QBs we have faced, the best-performing has been Kirk Cousins, who ha. Every other QB we have faced is a below average QB. We'll see what happens when we face Tyrod Taylor, Brian Hoyer, Eli Manning, Marcus Mariota, etc. If we lose these games, then we can't "beat anyone". We can only beat shytty QBs.
I see what your saying but it's a 16 week season. Just cause we loose to a good QB one week don't mean we can't beat a great one the next week lol

I guess I'm just optimistic. Just have to make the playoffs than play your best ball of the year when it counts. It almost worked twice recently
 

godkiller

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When I say base a quarterback off a big sample size, meaning you play the whole season out. You just can't use 4 games and say Geno has impeoved and better now. I'm not saying you give up on the quarterback after one year, you learn what made that year for quarterback and coach them things to hope he gets better. Derek Carr is looking better than he was last year, but I'm going let season play out first than make judgement because anything can happen. Remember teams get film and study. You really out how good your team is late in season, once teams have accumulated enough film and know how to a track your strengths. That's why I say Geno might look good for couple games but once teams get film and slow him down and he starts playing bad again. Can you say he's improved?

I disagree. You can look at a QB's mechanics, footwork, ball placement, arm strength, timing, pocket presence etc and judge whether they have improved right away. These things are consistent and difficult to change. QBs don't show expert ball placement 42 times one day and then not 42 times the day after. Geno's actual production might change after tape but the above variables won't. We can say he's improved his pocket presence, ball placement, accuracy, etc right now.

Not every quarterback can be fixed. But what is fixed? Some coaches are smart enough to categorize how good a quarterback can be. Geno will never be a top quarterback in this league because he just doesn't have mental part but he can middle tier quarterback.

You are right that we can't speculate forever that a QB can be fixed but I don't engage in such endless prognostication anyway. So long as a QB continues to improve, we can postulate they can be fixed, since they are already in the process of improving said things. The question is what that QB's ceiling is and whether they can improve enough to make that ceiling matter. Geno can indeed be a top QB in this league. Marty said so, Gailey said so, etc. His mental part is fine. He checked for blitzes, hit his hot read, sensed pressure, etc.

But you keep forgetting we're playing Fitz how were suppose to play him, like a game manager. On Bills he was more than a game manager and he's not that. So it's easy to see why he failed.

I watched the Bills. On the Bills Fitz was a slightly worse version than what he is now.

Geno not seeing the field. He will have another shot somewhere next year and we will see how he plays.

He saw the field well enough against the Raiders for me to think his field vision has improved. If Geno goes elsewhere and gets a fair shot and plays well, then we wasted time playing Fitz. We'll also need a new QB and we'll have wasted his defense, too.
 

godkiller

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I see what your saying but it's a 16 week season. Just cause we loose to a good QB one week don't mean we can't beat a great one the next week lol

I guess I'm just optimistic. Just have to make the playoffs than play your best ball of the year when it counts. It almost worked twice recently

I didn't say we only have to lose to one QB, I said that if we lose to a number of those QBs, then we can say we can't beat anyone. Thus Fitz is just taking advantage of the weak schedule and below average QBs. We have thus wasted our season on a bum who can't play. Sanchez is the same deal.
 

Marlostanfield.

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I disagree. You can look at a QB's mechanics, footwork, ball placement, arm strength, timing, pocket presence etc and judge whether they have improved right away. These things are consistent and difficult to change. QBs don't show expert ball placement 42 times one day and then not 42 times the day after. Geno's actual production might change after tape but the above variables won't. We can say he's improved his pocket presence, ball placement, accuracy, etc right now.



You are right that we can't speculate forever that a QB can be fixed but I don't engage in such endless prognostication anyway. So long as a QB continues to improve, we can postulate they can be fixed, since they are already in the process of improving said things. The question is what that QB's ceiling is and whether they can improve enough to make that ceiling matter. Geno can indeed be a top QB in this league. Marty said so, Gailey said so, etc. His mental part is fine. He checked for blitzes, hit his hot read, sensed pressure, etc.



I watched the Bills. On the Bills Fitz was a slightly worse version than what he is now.



He saw the field well enough against the Raiders for me to think his field vision has improved. If Geno goes elsewhere and gets a fair shot and plays well, then we wasted time playing Fitz. We'll also need a new QB and we'll have wasted his defense, too.

I feel like we going debate all night lol, but it's good debating so it's cool.

Me, personally I be live you look at quarterback through the whole then see if he has improved and gotten better. Because if you based stuff off a couple of games but later in season he reverts back to his old self, can you say he really improved ? Consistency is a big factor in being a good quarterback.

And I really don't know about all of that improvement in the mental part at all. Last year he had a lot of turnovers for a reason. Then you still see him making bad decisions a quarterback should know not to do. I dont see all this him reading the blitz at all because Geno takes a lot of sacks. Yeah the quality wasn't the best, but good quarterbacks do overcome that. And what do you consider a top quarterback? Brady, Rodgers are top quarterbacks to name a few. I don't ever see Geno being in that league, but is he serviceable enough to win with, yeah sure.

But, those bills teams were not good like this jets team is. Fitz had to play a role, he's not suitedvfor. Hes suited for the role we're having him play now.

I understand fans of Geno want to see him with legit weapons and see what he is, but as of right the offense flows with Fitz, so it's not happening unless something drastic happens.
 

godkiller

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Me, personally I be live you look at quarterback through the whole then see if he has improved and gotten better. Because if you based stuff off a couple of games but later in season he reverts back to his old self, can you say he really improved ? Consistency is a big factor in being a good quarterback.

Indeed, and a QB might perform better or worse under certain circumstances, but in general I look for situations whereupon a QB is asked to make a decision and then gauge whether he makes that decision. Cousins for example has always shown better footwork, ball placement and anticipation than RG3. The difference between Cousin's first game as a second stringer and his last game as a starter is that he has improved in production, not base traits. RG3 once upon a time showed better production despite intermittently poor footwork, ball placement and anticipation. Geno's challenge is to show he can better RG3 and show production because of footwork, accuracy, and anticipation. He did that against the Raiders.

And I really don't know about all of that improvement in the mental part at all. Last year he had a lot of turnovers for a reason. Then you still see him making bad decisions a quarterback should know not to do. I dont see all this him reading the blitz at all because Geno takes a lot of sacks. Yeah the quality wasn't the best, but good quarterbacks do overcome that. And what do you consider a top quarterback? Brady, Rodgers are top quarterbacks to name a few. I don't ever see Geno being in that league, but is he serviceable enough to win with, yeah sure.

In last year 4-5 games last year, Geno showed improvement mentally. This year his improvement carried to the Raiders' game. Pocket presence, blitz pick up, reading the D, etc are all mental traits whereby Geno has improved. If you don't Geno picked up the blitz, you can see him repeatedly doing so in this game breakdown:

Film Breakdown: Geno Smith vs OAK Week 8

"2nd and 5 at OAK 39 (1:30 – 2nd) (Shotgun) G.Smith pass short middle to E.Decker to OAK 25 for 14 yards (M.Smith)

Another cover-1 man, the Raiders bring 5 rushers up to the line, but will replace the ILB (who will drop to cover Decker) for the nickel CB at the bottom. The pre-snap has one player stand out, Decker is uncovered in the slot receiver spot closest to the line of scrimmage on the right side.

When Geno takes the snap, he checks for the corner blitz (as he has been) and it finally comes. Rather than take the hot read of Marshall, Geno’s composed enough to take advantage of Decker’s favorable situation where a dropping linebacker is in coverage and get the ball out quickly to him. The throw is slightly low but still in stride."

I think Geno can be a 60-70+ a week QBR player, which puts him from 15th to 8th best QB.



But, those bills teams were not good like this jets team is. Fitz had to play a role, he's not suitedvfor. Hes suited for the role we're having him play now.

I understand fans of Geno want to see him with legit weapons and see what he is, but as of right the offense flows with Fitz, so it's not happening unless something drastic happens.

You are right but Fitz's limitations now are still apparent as they were in Buffalo. Fitz is still only an average to above average player with and without weapons.
 
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