Westbrook is the best pg in the league

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:dwillhuh:

How are you gonna sit there and pretend like Paul has more offensive talent around him when Westbrook has the best scorer in the league on his damn list?

Because he does, overall he does. One player (Durant) doesn't somehow negate the fact that the Clippers have a more talented and balanced starting/most minutes lineup.

Clippers:

Crawford - a career-high 20+ PPG scorer and is still capable of producing that and can create his own shot.

Butler - a career-high 20+ PPG scorer who isn't the scoring threat that he once was but still can put up double digit scoring and can create his own shot.

Griffin - a career-high 20+ PPG scorer who is nearing his prime and can create his own shot.

Jordan - a career-high 8+ PPG scorer who is limited in creating his own shot (partly due to not enough touches).

Thunder:

Sefolosha - a career-high 8+ PPG scorer who is limited in creating his own shot.

Durant - a career-high 30+ PPG scorer who can create his own shot.

Ibaka - a career-high 13+ PPG scorer who is limited in creating his own shot.

Perkins - a career-high 10+ PPG who basically can't create his own shot.

Can't you see that's why the Thunder need Westbrook's scoring?

First of all you cant even compare them like CP "has" this guy and Russell "has" this guy because they dont even share the same roles or relationships with their respective teammates.

Yes you can, because you're saying the Thunder would be more effective with Paul. When Paul heads a more offensive talented team, yet they produce less offense than the Thunder (who have less offensive talent).

How's Paul suppose to make a less-talented offensive Thunder team more productive, when he can't even make his more-talented offensive team surpass the threshold of where the Thunder are at(offensively) right now?

And youre actually trying to give credit to Westbrook for the Thunder's offense, totally ignoring the main reason for their success and pretending like hes just a guy in Westbrook's offense, and then trying to use that laughable farce as a basis to claim Westbrook runs a more effective offense than CP, when CP has no one close to a Kevin Durant on his team!

Why do you constantly spin shyt? I never gave the entire credit to Westbrook for the Thunder's offense - where did I say or imply that? I gave credit to him being the main one that pushes the tempo and keeps them on the front foot. The Thunder need this when Durant sometimes fades in and out during the game.

The main reason for their success is Durant and Westbrook - they're basically 1a and 1b. They're just as important as each other. Does Westbrook run a better offense in the traditional sense? No. Has he had more success than Paul has with the way he plays point guard this season? Yes.

Westbrook has been the best performing PG this season.

If that wasnt already goofy enough, you just admitted a few minutes ago that Westbrook doesnt even know HOW to run an offense. Now suddenly he not only can run an offense
but he "does more with less" than Chris Paul.

What a tremendous mountain of bullshyt

He doesn't know how to run an offense in the traditional sense or how to properly breakdown defenses through pro-typical point guard play. The way he runs the offense is by doing impromptu PNRs and funnelling out to shooters and drawing players on drives. He does more with less in that: he's near-equal 1st in importance on a more productive team (+ he heads the offense) with less overall offensive talent than Paul has with the Clippers.

Do I have to spell out everything for you?
 
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The question isnt "Would the Thunder benefit from a better coach?" We all agree on that but its irrelevant and only used as a scapegoat/strawman to try to pretend like Westbrook's decision-making isnt an issue or a reason why Paul would clearly fit in better with the team.

How the fukk is it irrelevant? It's totally relevant. You're just saying that because it doesn't suit your case. I just posted that quote of Brooks not doing much coaching this season: "a source close to the team told me weeks ago that Brooks hasn’t done a ton of real coaching with this team this season, instead just kind of going with the flow, with the intention to ratchet things up in the playoffs." Yet Durant and Westbrook managed to drive this team to a #1 seed (despite the lack of coaching) and Westbrook is supposedly the MAIN one that's at fault in all of this, on why the Thunder don't have a better% chance at beating the Heat?

LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Let me make this clear to you - THE THUNDER HAVE THE #1 RANKED OFFENSE IN THE LEAGUE WITH WESTBROOK AVERAGING 23.2 POINTS WITH 7.4 ASSISTS AS A 1B OPTION.

How is that an issue for the Thunder to the point, where Paul (who heads a more talented team but doesn't have the same production - reiterating for you) would clearly be a better fit?

How would Paul be a better fit when outside Durant the Thunder have no consistent players that can create their shot or score?

It doesn't add up.

I also clearly said the Clippers would also improve with him over Paul because, just like OKC, theres a need for his playstyle there that the current pg doesnt fill. He'd finally be the number 1 option role hes been trying to wrestle away from Durant his entire career and unlike the Thunder and Durant, the Clippers often need a guy to take over in a scoring role, and Westbrook is naturally that guy, unlike Paul. Griffin and Jordan just need someone to penetrate and throw the ball up high to get their points (unlike Perkins, Collison and them) and Westbrook can handle that too.

That's all good, but I ain't arguing that. Nor does it have any relevance to the conversation. All I see is it as you trying to save face by attempting to bring objectivity into a side matter, to show that you have reasoning when discussing Westbrook.

Are you gonna disagree with these points too or are you basically just tryna argue that Westbrook is better than CP3 in every situation? If so, I think we can guess the source of that saltiness.

Is Westbrook better than CP3 in every situation? It depends. For the Thunder he certainly is. Because they need his scoring, they wouldn't be nearly as effective/productive this season if they didn't have him on the team and Paul was there instead. Because Paul:

would have to step up his scoring
he'd have to push the tempo
play above the rim
having a score-first mentality

Paul isn't capable of all those things collectively to push the Thunder past where they're at now.

You still haven't addressed all these offensive weapons the Thunder have? Is that the main reason why you think Paul wouldn't have to equal Westbrook's personal production/impact because you believe Thabo, Ibaka and Perkins could make up the difference and exceed where the team is at now?
 

jfkennedy

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Can you just imagine, Paul floating in and out of the first three quarters and Durant expected to carry the team offensively?

:mindblown:

Durant would actually have to live up to this "2nd best player in the league" talk. :skip:

Kobe and Melo would be lol'ng. :mjpls:
 

GoddamnyamanProf

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Gil Scott-Heron said:
walls of nonsense
So your entire argument still hinges on the lie that Paul has more offensive talent around him than Westbrook.

Your breakdown was retarded for several reasons. Using career bests to allege their output today-stupid. Generic labels on shot-creation that would indicate Deandre Jordan has the same ability as Ibaka...or Blake Griffin the same ability as Kevin Durant-laughable. Conveniently omitting Kevin Martin so we can pretend Westbrook just HAS to jack up 25 shots a game- painfully transparent garbage. And of course when they had Harden, ANOTHER lethal scorer, the argument from your types was the same - this pathetic notion that the Thunder neeed Westbrook to play hero ball. Based on absolutely nothing. fukkin Teen Wolf sensibilities shaping your knowledge of the game. :dead:

The additional irony is that according to you, the Clippers have a ton of 20 ppg-capable scorers that get their points off their own shots...meanwhile the Thunder just have a bunch of big bodies and athletes that can't create for themselves. So...even if we go with your misguided assessment, a swap of the pgs would STILL stand to benefit the needs of both teams better than currently constructed. . Your lack of logic is confounding.

Really all it comes down to is that you feel the job of the point guard is not to assist with setting up easy buckets for teammates and creating a balanced attack, but to make up for the perceived lack of teammates' skill by gunning and taking more shots than the #1 scorer in the league, one of those aforementioned teammates. :smh: Yup, that's that Kobe bullshyt creepin in again.

And you seem bent on the idea that Paul would have to try to emulate Westbrook. No idea why; the point is that if Westbrook learned a thing or two from Paul, the Thunder could become a great team and win a championship. Until then, they can enjoy more years of disjointed #1 offense and runner up titles to more cohesive teams.
 
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So your entire argument still hinges on the lie that Paul has more offensive talent around him than Westbrook.

Your entire argument hinges on all those offensive weapons the Thunder have (outside of Durant and Westbrook) :troll:

Your breakdown was retarded for several reasons. Using career bests to allege their output today-stupid. Generic labels on shot-creation that would indicate Deandre Jordan has the same ability as Ibaka...or Blake Griffin the same ability as Kevin Durant-laughable.

I used career bests and then backed it up with their current abilities today. Their career bests were evidence to show why they're more talented (it's not like Crawford and Butler are totally washed up) offensive players.

You're really gonna argue that Crawford, Butler, Griffin and Jordan aren't more talented offensively over Thabo, Durant, Ibaka and Perkins as collectives?

Conveniently omitting Kevin Martin so we can pretend Westbrook just HAS to jack up 25 shots a game- painfully transparent garbage.

I said starting/most minutes - they both average 27 minutes yet Thabo starts, so he gets the nod. I didn't conveniently omit him. Plus Thabo plays down the stretch more than Martin does as well.

And of course when they had Harden, ANOTHER lethal scorer, the argument from your types was the same - this pathetic notion that the Thunder neeed Westbrook to play hero ball. Based on absolutely nothing. fukkin Teen Wolf sensibilities shaping your knowledge of the game. :dead:

This season-

shootsmore_crop_exact.png


Over their careers (games played together)-

LeadingScorere3_crop_exact.png


Thunder-career winning percentage when Westbrook scores more= 71%

Thunder-career winning percentage when Durant scores more= 67%

This season the Thunder are 21-3 when Westbrook outscores Durant.


This dispels the notion that you think the Thunder don't need Westbrook's scoring/'hero ball'. His scoring and score-first mentality are amongst the main reasons why this team has been successful, not despite it. Plus they need his scoring this season more than previous seasons, because there's no more Harden. He's just as an important piece to this team's success as Durant is.

THE ONLY ONE THAT'S BASING THEIR ARGUMENT OF THE THUNDER NOT NEEDING WESTBROOK'S SCORING ON ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IS YOU. I'VE GOT FACTS AND HISTORICAL EVIDENCE TO BACK MY CLAIMS UP THAT THEY NEED HIS SCORING, ALL YOU'VE GOT IS YOUR KOBE-COMPLEX IN THE WAY OF YOU EVER TREATING ANY SIMILAR PLAYERS OBJECTIVELY.

WHERE IS THIS HISTORICAL EVIDENCE THAT THE THUNDER ARE BETTER OFF WITHOUT WESTBROOK'S SCORING AND ARE BETTER WITH THEIR OFFENSIVE WEAPONS SCORING (IBAKA, PERKINS AND THABO)?

SHOW ME WHERE OTHER THAN YOUR PREDISPOSED AGENDA-DRIVEN OPINION WHERE THE THUNDER DON'T NEED WESTBROOK'S SCORING?


:shaq:

The additional irony is that according to you, the Clippers have a ton of 20 ppg-capable scorers that get their points off their own shots...meanwhile the Thunder just have a bunch of big bodies and athletes that can't create for themselves. So...even if we go with your misguided assessment, a swap of the pgs would STILL stand to benefit the needs of both teams better than currently constructed. . Your lack of logic is confounding.

You love working in hyperboles don't you? You took my whole team-referencing out of context and stretched the truth of my intent. The intent was to show that they're more capable scorers and more players that can create their own shot (outside the respective PGs) on the Clippers than there are on the Thunder. That is irrefutable, the Clippers are more talented offensively and have a greater pedigree of scoring.

How would the logic of 'the Thunder have less talent offensively (shooting, creating for themselves) benefit more from CP3 over Westbrook - when the Thunder need more scoring outside of Durant?

The way the Thunder are constructed, they need Westbrook over CP3 because he maintains a constant-scoring drive and is the only player (outside Durant) talented enough to get to the rim and create his own shot and finish it on the regular. CP3 isn't gonna make up and surpass Westbrook's production on the offense end; or make up the difference and surpass it by making Ibaka, Perkins and Thabo better offensive/productive players.

Really all it comes down to is that you feel the job of the point guard is not to assist with setting up easy buckets for teammates and creating a balanced attack, but to make up for the perceived lack of teammates' skill by gunning and taking more shots than the #1 scorer in the league, one of those aforementioned teammates. Yup, that's that Kobe bullshyt creepin in again.

WRONG.

Where are you getting this idea from that Thabo, Perkins and Ibaka are offensive weapons? The Thunder are successful because Westbrook doesn't play the traditional role of PG. If he had a pass-first mentality, they wouldn't be nearly as good as they're right now (they certainly wouldn't be the number 1 seed - the above game-history this season proves that). Where's the proof of them playing better without Westbrook's style? Where's the proof that Ibaka, Perkins and Thabo are talented enough to warrant enough of a scoring role for the Thunder to have a balanced attack, that would make them more successful than they're now?

Ibaka is the only arguable player amongst those three that is talented enough to have more of a scoring role.

THERE'S THAT KOBE-COMPLEX AGAIN.

WHY DO YOU FEEL THE NEED TO CONSTANTLY REFER TO KOBE, WHEN THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM OTHER THAN YOU REACHING TO FIND SOME IRRELEVANT CONNECTION POINTS?


You on some 'Westbrook scored 24 points on the 24th of June 2013; June is the 6th month of the year and 2+4 = 6; numbers of 2013 are equal to 6 too which also has an equation of 2+4 and since Kobe wears the #24 jersey, that must mean Kobe is somehow related to all of this :ohhh:' type shyt.

And you seem bent on the idea that Paul would have to try to emulate Westbrook. No idea why; the point is that if Westbrook learned a thing or two from Paul, the Thunder could become a great team and win a championship. Until then, they can enjoy more years of disjointed #1 offense and runner up titles to more cohesive teams.

Emulate his impact he would have to. That he's incapable of. Paul would have to have a near-constant scoring mentality to make up for the shortcomings of the rest of the offensive players. Westbrook learning a thing or two from Paul isn't gonna make the Thunder win a championship. Stop reaching for shyt.

These are the reasons in relative-order of why the Thunder don't have a championship:

1. Heat being at the peak of their powers, with the best player in the league in his prime
2. Lack of real coaching in OKC
3. Lack of adequate role players or role players taking up too much salary (*looks at Fisher and Perkins*)

Yet you choose to single out one of the least contributing factors to the Thunder's inability to win a championship? Why is that? Why are you looking past the main/predominant reasons to single out something insignificant to the bigger picture? Why are you using surface-skimming analysis of Westbrook's game as the main reason and not attributing this to the root of all their problems?

los-angeles-lakers-american-professional-basketball-kobe-bryant-black-mamba.jpg
 

#1 pick

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You're not gonna bother arguing because my argument is flawless.

Better perimeter defenders? Since when has that been a problem for OKC? Thabo, Ibaka, Westbrook, who's the weak defender there?

No, the problem for OKC is that this iso-based offense is hit and miss. When they're on, they look unstoppable. But when they're off, they're prone to dry spells. That's how they can have statistically the #1 offense and still look awkward and out of sync at times.

Another fun fact: Miami was running that same iso ball when they came together, with similar results. Finals, no ring. Then they decided to get serious, switch up the game plan, move away from constant isos and become a truly great team. Will OKC ever make that step with Westbrook running the show? Remains to be seen.:yeshrug: But throw in a guy that gets it like Chris Paul and it happens immediately.
I think OKC is better with Westbrook than CP3. OKC aren't the smartest bunch and I wasn't including Westy with that. CP3 needs to play with smart players. Sure, Durant is smart but Ibaka? Perkins isn't much of a offensive player. Thabo? Come on son. CP3 would be perfect in Atlanta, not OKC if Atlanta could get a legit center to move Horford to PF.
 

Thegospel

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Once again, where are all these "damn weapons on the Thunder", that Westbrook is taking key scoring possessions off?

It's a punch line for nikkas who let skip think for them. Miami beats OKC because they don't even guard Thabo and Perkins. nikkas are stupid as fukk. Only real threat they have other than Russ and kd is k Martin. Paul has Billips, Crawford, Blake. That's three players on la who can make their own shot. Russ has two.........really one. Kd. I don't think Martin can create on his own. He's more of a spot up/catch and make a quick dribble and pull up type.

Get Chris Paul dock out yalls mouths like he's the apex of pg play. Deeper he gets in postseason weaker he plays. Check his history before you pop shyt
 
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If all that stands in the way is Westbrook learning a thing or two from CP3 and the Thunder winning a championship this season, then @Loose better contact young sabo and inform him. CP3's knowledge is so powerful, that it can overcome the best player in the league with the best team and balance out a coach that doesn't do any actual coaching.

p.s. it'll also turn Perkins and Thabo into scoring GAWDS.

:troll:
 
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It's a punch line for nikkas who let skip think for them. Miami beats OKC because they don't even guard Thabo and Perkins. nikkas are stupid as fukk. Only real threat they have other than Russ and kd is k Martin. Paul has Billips, Crawford, Blake. That's three players on la who can make their own shot. Russ has two.........really one. Kd. I don't think Martin can create on his own. He's more of a spot up/catch and make a quick dribble and pull up type.

Get Chris Paul dock out yalls mouths like he's the apex of pg play. Deeper he gets in postseason weaker he plays. Check his history before you pop shyt

But that doesn't mean shyt, because everyone knows that CP3 on the Thunder are instant championship favorites and CP3 would have Perkins catching alley oops all game long, Hakeem post moves on the low block, 16 foot jumpers near the elbow. He'd have Thabo shooting threes like he was Ray Allen, he'd have him coming off pin-down screens and shooting like a prime Hamilton. He'd have Ibaka, Perkins and Thabo play like they were legitimate double-team threats and defenses wouldn't know what to do.

:troll::troll::troll::troll::troll:
 

Brozay

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I thoroughly look forward to Russ shytting on CP3 in the 2nd round.
 
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