What does LeBron James have to do to be considered the GOAT?

[Floyd Pinkerton]

They are

Wade went to the finals by himself and won finals mvp having one of the best finals ever by one player

Kyrie is only 24 years old. When was Pippen dropping 40 in the finals? Kyrie stepped his D up and was shutting down the unanimous MVP. Kyrie hit the game winner which won the cavs the series.

In the 2nd 3peat pippen was scoring 6-8 points on some nights

Can you fukking read? I clearly stated LeBron-era Wade.

 

[Truefan31]

lol lebron is 3-4 in finals he's not with MJ man.

Do people forget Lebron scored 8 points in a Finals game? lol

Dirk n average joes like jason terry giving them the business?

 

[gluvnast]

So how good with the Cavs have done without Lebron?

Not make the playoffs. If you read what I been saying, LeBron is the most talented player that EVER done it. Said that several times. It should be expected in that weak conference that he can sleepwalk a team into the FINALS. The issue is his KILLER INSTINCT. He rarely plays with that kind of mentality at all.. He's like how Superman is never going at his FULL potential and always holding back. That is the ISSUE. It is always SOMEONE ELSE that have to make it happen when shyt is on the line. LeBron is that SAME DUDE crying about him so-called pulling a leg muscle in the finals. LeBron, mentality wise is EXACTLY how Pippen was without MJ and Pippen even conceded to that much. It is not his lane. And you can look as recent AS game 7 when the chips is ALL DOWN for both teams and it is absolute DO OR DIE. It shouldn't of been Kyrie trying to keep the team a float when you got the MOST DOMINANT player out there and he's playing passive... the only thing in the 2nd half he done that was worth a damn was that blocked shot. Until and only IF he displayed what he shown he COULD do on rare occasions in game 6... is when I personal see him up there with MJ or Kobe. And there's NO EXCUSE when you got everything to take over the game OUTRIGHT.... if your team is struggle, TAKE THE fukk OVER... don't play passive. It pisses me off to no end when LeBron do this... and I didn't even get to the petty flops...but I won't criticize that as a weakness, just not my personal cup of tea... but him being passive-aggressive.. you never know WHAT kind of player you'll get the next game... it isn't how I view a GOAT should be.... you come with your game face at ALL TIMES even if the game is insignificant.

 

[showtime]

Can you fukking read? I clearly stated LeBron-era Wade.

You mean the same Lebron era Wade that almost carried Lebron to a ring against the Mavs when Lebron played like shyt?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Me personally already has Bron as the 3rd greatest player ever. And no personally I don't think he has to do all that to surpass Jordan. Infact I don't think he will surpass either but I was saying if he did all that then the discussion would definitely be real. Wouldn't automatically put him over Jordan though.

Oh, I'm definitely not saying that he's surpassed Jordan. He's a lock top-5 all-time right now though. I'd say #3 is realistic.

When we are talking about the greatest of all time, his failures have to come into play. The current GOAT is Jordan and he's undefeated in title games. Thats a big statement. LeBron has failed more times than he's won it. That also says a lot.

EVERY PLAYER SINCE BILL RUSSELL HAS FAILED MORE TIMES THAN THEY WON IT.

Jordan failed to win a championship NINE times.

When James was 23, he drug a crap team (Boobie Gibson, basically a D-leaguer, was the 2nd-best player in the Finals) to the NBA Finals before losing to the Duncan-Parker-Ginobli Spurs. That counts as "Lebron failed".

When Jordan was 23, he was leading his team to a losing record in the regular season and a 1st-round sweep in the playoffs. He shot 41.7% in the playoffs and put up an ugly 9-30 in the elimination game. But that doesn't count as "Jordan failed", because finishing with a losing record and getting swept in the 1st round is magically less of a failure than making it to the NBA Finals with a team that should have been in the lottery.

Jordan had a strong team in 1990 (Pippen, Grant, Cartwright, and Paxson rounded out the starting 5 and were all 24-29, Phil Jackson was coaching, bench had decent role players like Stacey King, B.J. Armstrong, and Will Purdue), but lost in a Game 7 blowout in the ECF. Jordan had played decent in Game 7 but never "took over" (his teammates were ass that game), and he had ugly games in the losses in Game 2 and Game 5. Still, Detroit was the better team. But does prime Jordan losing to a better team not count as a "failure" because he lost in the ECF, but Lebron losing to a better team in 2014 and 2015 counts as a "failure" just because he got his team to the Finals before they lost to a much better team?

That narrative makes no sense whatsoever.

nikka; Isaiah was born in 1961. Jordan was born in 1963. How did you not know that? I am only a few years younger than both of them. But I know you never saw either one of them in their prime, because of the stupid comment you made about Thomas being past his prime when Jordan started winning. Thomas was MVP of the NBA Finals in 1990. The Bulls won their first of 6 NBA titles the very next year in 1991.

I was a huge Blazers stan in the 1980s, and I saw every minute of every game of that 1990 NBA Finals you are referring to.

Isaiah "only being two years older than Jordan" is meaningless. Tracey McGrady is one year OLDER than Kobe Bryant. Do you doubt that McGrady's prime ended long before Bryant's did?

The peak of Isaiah's prime was the 83/84 season to the 86/87 season. After 1987, Isaiah never made another all-NBA team again.

And you can't just say that the NBA was too stacked. In 1989, the 3rd-team all-NBA guards Mark Price and Dale Ellis. In 1990, Isaiah was beat out by his own teammate (Joe Dumars) as well as Kevin Johnson. By 1993, Drazen Petrovic was 3rd-team all-NBA and Isaiah was getting ready to announce his retirement.

And saying, "But Isaiah was Finals MVP in 1990!" doesn't mean that he was prime Isaiah. Was Igoudala prime Iggy when he won Finals MVP in 2015? Duncan would have been MVP if the Spurs had taken Game 6 in 2013 - was that prime Duncan?

And you're using 1990 to claim that Isaiah must have been "prime Isaiah" during Jordan's run, when Jordan's run didn't even start until the next year.

Jordan won his titles from 1991-1998. Isaiah only played in half those years, missed 65 games during that time, and was clearly a tier below "prime Isaiah".

And how much did Jordan have to face him anyway? After sweeping the Pistons in 1991 (Isaiah averaged 16 and 6 on 40% shooting in that series), the Pistons lost in the 1st round in 1992 (Isaiah was 14 and 7 on 34% shooting in that series), and had a losing record and didn't even make the playoffs in 1993.

You're claiming that Isaiah was a big part of the talent that Jordan had to face in his title runs, when Isaiah's team was ONLY good for the 1st of Jordan's 6 runs and he had definitely fallen a step down from prime Isaiah by then.

You lose, and it's not even close.

Ewing, Robinson, Barkley and Olajuwon were top 50 players all except I think Olajuwon were members of the Dream Team.

Learn something about basketball youngster.

Jordan never faced Olajuwon in the playoffs. Houston's squads generally sucked, and the two years that the Dream drug them into the Finals, Jordan was nowhere in sight.

Jordan never faced Robinson in the playoffs. The Spurs were mediocre until Timmy came and led them to glory. Their only good year they ran into Barkley's good year.

Jordan only faced Barkley in the playoffs once. Another good player on mediocre teams - outside of 1993 his Suns never even made it out of the second round.

Ewing's teams were consistently mediocre - 1992-1993 were the only years that prime Ewing led a strong Kincks squad.

So you got "Ewing".


I didn't say that there were no good players in the 1990s. There were good players. But the talent was diluted, so a lot of those good players didn't have very good squads around them. There had been two expansion teams in 1988, two more in 1989, and two more in 1995.

That's 6 expansion teams in 7 years, completely diluting the talent at the perfect time for the Bulls run.

To compare, other than that spurt, there's only been ONE expansion team in the last 35 years. You can't not take that into account.

It doesn't mean that there was less talent than before. It means the talent was spread out more thinly, so that one team with three HOFs (four in the second three-peat) can dominate.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Not make the playoffs. If you read what I been saying, LeBron is the most talented player that EVER done it. Said that several times. It should be expected in that weak conference that he can sleepwalk a team into the FINALS. The issue is his KILLER INSTINCT. He rarely plays with that kind of mentality at all. He's like how Superman is never going at his FULL potential and always holding back. That is the ISSUE. It is always SOMEONE ELSE that have to make it happen when shyt is on the line. LeBron is that SAME DUDE crying about him so-called pulling a leg muscle in the finals. LeBron, mentality wise is EXACTLY how Pippen was without MJ and Pippen even conceded to that much. It is not his lane.

You're talking about a guy who just put up 41-16-7-3-3, 41-8-11-4-3, and 27-11-11-2-3 in winning the last three games of the NBA Finals in 2016.

The guy who just averaged 36-13-9 for an entire Finals in 2015.

The guy who put up 32-10-11 and 37-12-6 in winning the last two games of the NBA Finals in 2013.

The guy who put up 40-18-8 and 45-15-5 when falling behind in the ECSF and ECF in 2012.

The guy who scored 45 in a Game 7 against the eventual champs Boston in 2008.

The guy who scored 29 of the last 30 points to put up a 48-5-6 in taking out the Pistons when he was only 22 in 2007.

The guy who is #4 in NBA history in playoff scoring (5,572) and #3 in NBA history in points per game (28.0).

The guy who has the highest Game 7 scoring average in NBA history (34 ppg).

The guy who has the highest elimination game scoring average in NBA history (33 ppg).

The guy with three NBA Finals MVPs, all of them unanimous.

And you can look as recent AS game 7 when the chips is ALL DOWN for both teams and it is absolute DO OR DIE. It shouldn't of been Kyrie trying to keep the team a float when you got the MOST DOMINANT player out there and he's playing passive... the only thing in the 2nd half he done that was worth a damn was that blocked shot. Until and only IF he displayed what he shown he COULD do on rare occasions in game 6... is when I personal see him up there with MJ or Kobe. And there's NO EXCUSE when you got everything to take over the game OUTRIGHT.... if your team is struggle, TAKE THE fukk OVER... don't play passive. It pisses me off to no end when LeBron do this... and I didn't even get to the petty flops...but I won't criticize that as a weakness, just not my personal cup of tea... but him being passive-aggressive.. you never know WHAT kind of player you'll get the next game... it isn't how I view a GOAT should be.... you come with your game face at ALL TIMES even if the game is insignificant.

Lebron scored 11 in the 4th. Kyrie had FIVE points in the whole 4th quarter, to go with 0 assists. In fact, Kyrie only had 5 points and 0 assists total in the final 15 minutes of the game. Lebron was dominant in that same period.

In the final 6 minutes of Game 7, Lebron scored 9 points. ALL OTHER PLAYERS ON BOTH TEAMS COMBINED ONLY SCORED 7.

Last 6 minutes of Game 7
Lebron 9 points
Kyrie 3 points
Green 2 points
Thompson 2 points

That's it. That's all the scoring in the final 6 minutes of the biggest game in 5 years.

AND he had the biggest defensive play too.

But right, the "blocked shot" was the only good thing Lebron did in the 2nd half.

17 points and 6 assists in the 2nd half (accounting for 31 points combined) is nothing in your book.


Your narrative is idiocy.


You really want to list all the times that Kobe played like ass in a big game? You really want to put Kobe's Finals performances or elimination game performances up against Lebron?

And you're trying to claim that Kobe is better at taking over the biggest games than Lebron is.


You're right on one thing though. Kobe definitely has Lebron's number at playing like a champ "when the game is insignificant".


Nothing says, "I just put up 40 shots in a meaningless regular season game when both my team and their team is ass" like Kobe Bryant.

 

[Reggie]

You're talking about a guy who just put up 41-16-7-3-3, 41-8-11-4-3, and 27-11-11-2-3 in winning the last three games of the NBA Finals in 2016.

The guy who just averaged 36-13-9 for an entire Finals in 2015.

The guy who put up 32-10-11 and 37-12-6 in winning the last two games of the NBA Finals in 2013.

The guy who put up 40-18-8 and 45-15-5 when falling behind in the ECSF and ECF in 2012.

The guy who scored 45 in a Game 7 against the eventual champs Boston in 2008.

The guy who scored 29 of the last 30 points to put up a 48-5-6 in taking out the Pistons when he was only 22 in 2007.

The guy who is #4 in NBA history in playoff scoring (5,572) and #3 in NBA history in points per game (28.0).

The guy who has the highest Game 7 scoring average in NBA history (34 ppg).

The guy who has the highest elimination game scoring average in NBA history (33 ppg).

The guy with three NBA Finals MVPs, all of them unanimous.








Lebron scored 11 in the 4th. Kyrie had FIVE points in the whole 4th quarter, to go with 0 assists. In fact, Kyrie only had 5 points and 0 assists total in the final 15 minutes of the game. Lebron was dominant in that same period.

In the final 6 minutes of Game 7, Lebron scored 9 points. ALL OTHER PLAYERS ON BOTH TEAMS COMBINED ONLY SCORED 7.

Last 6 minutes of Game 7
Lebron 9 points
Kyrie 3 points
Green 2 points
Thompson 2 points

That's it. That's all the scoring in the final 6 minutes of the biggest game in 5 years.

AND he had the biggest defensive play too.

But right, the "blocked shot" was the only good thing Lebron did in the 2nd half.

17 points and 6 assists in the 2nd half (accounting for 31 points combined) is nothing in your book.


Your narrative is idiocy.


You really want to list all the times that Kobe played like ass in a big game? You really want to put Kobe's Finals performances or elimination game performances up against Lebron?

And you're trying to claim that Kobe is better at taking over the biggest games than Lebron is.


You're right on one thing though. Kobe definitely has Lebron's number at playing like a champ "when the game is insignificant".


Nothing says, "I just put up 40 shots in a meaningless regular season game when both my team and their team is ass" like Kobe Bryant.

Damn we need rep back. Great fukking post bruh.

 

[Samori Toure]

Jordan had a strong team in 1990 (Pippen, Grant, Cartwright, and Paxson rounded out the starting 5 and were all 24-29, Phil Jackson was coaching, bench had decent role players like Stacey King, B.J. Armstrong, and Will Purdue), but lost in a Game 7 blowout in the ECF. Jordan had played decent in Game 7 but never "took over" (his teammates were ass that game), and he had ugly games in the losses in Game 2 and Game 5. Still, Detroit was the better team. But does prime Jordan losing to a better team not count as a "failure" because he lost in the ECF, but Lebron losing to a better team in 2014 and 2015 counts as a "failure" just because he got his team to the Finals before they lost to a much better team?

That narrative makes no sense whatsoever.







I was a huge Blazers stan in the 1980s, and I saw every minute of every game of that 1990 NBA Finals you are referring to.

Isaiah "only being two years older than Jordan" is meaningless. Tracey McGrady is one year OLDER than Kobe Bryant. Do you doubt that McGrady's prime ended long before Bryant's did?

The peak of Isaiah's prime was the 83/84 season to the 86/87 season. After 1987, Isaiah never made another all-NBA team again.

And you can't just say that the NBA was too stacked. In 1989, the 3rd-team all-NBA guards Mark Price and Dale Ellis. In 1990, Isaiah was beat out by his own teammate (Joe Dumars) as well as Kevin Johnson. By 1993, Drazen Petrovic was 3rd-team all-NBA and Isaiah was getting ready to announce his retirement.



And saying, "But Isaiah was Finals MVP in 1990!" doesn't mean that he was prime Isaiah. Was Igoudala prime Iggy when he won Finals MVP in 2015? Duncan would have been MVP if the Spurs had taken Game 6 in 2013 - was that prime Duncan?

And you're using 1990 to claim that Isaiah must have been "prime Isaiah" during Jordan's run, when Jordan's run didn't even start until the next year.

Jordan won his titles from 1991-1998. Isaiah only played in half those years, missed 65 games during that time, and was clearly a tier below "prime Isaiah".

And how much did Jordan have to face him anyway? After sweeping the Pistons in 1991 (Isaiah averaged 16 and 6 on 40% shooting in that series), the Pistons lost in the 1st round in 1992 (Isaiah was 14 and 7 on 34% shooting in that series), and had a losing record and didn't even make the playoffs in 1993.

You're claiming that Isaiah was a big part of the talent that Jordan had to face in his title runs, when Isaiah's team was ONLY good for the 1st of Jordan's 6 runs and he had definitely fallen a step down from prime Isaiah by then.

You lose, and it's not even close.






Jordan never faced Olajuwon in the playoffs. Houston's squads generally sucked, and the two years that the Dream drug them into the Finals, Jordan was nowhere in sight.

Jordan never faced Robinson in the playoffs. The Spurs were mediocre until Timmy came and led them to glory. Their only good year they ran into Barkley's good year.

Jordan only faced Barkley in the playoffs once. Another good player on mediocre teams - outside of 1993 his Suns never even made it out of the second round.

Ewing's teams were consistently mediocre - 1992-1993 were the only years that prime Ewing led a strong Kincks squad.

So you got "Ewing".


I didn't say that there were no good players in the 1990s. There were good players. But the talent was diluted, so a lot of those good players didn't have very good squads around them. There had been two expansion teams in 1988, two more in 1989, and two more in 1995.

That's 6 expansion teams in 7 years, completely diluting the talent at the perfect time for the Bulls run.

To compare, other than that spurt, there's only been ONE expansion team in the last 35 years. You can't not take that into account.

It doesn't mean that there was less talent than before. It means the talent was spread out more thinly, so that one team with three HOFs (four in the second three-peat) can dominate.

I am beginning to see that Coli nikkas basketball knowledge is of the teams and players of last 15 years. Anything beyond that and those nikkas lack knowledge.

This nikka actually wrote that Isaiah Thomas prime was 83-87. Yet a couple of sentences later he has to try to somehow explain away how Isaiah won the NBA Finals MVP in 1990.

So that is admission that his prime was not over after the 87 season. In fact the nikka's stats the very next year after winning the Finals MVP were MP 37.4; PPG 18.5; steals 1.5; assists 7.2; which were in line with his career stats.

Isiah Thomas

Finally, of course Jordan didn't play Olajuwon and Robinson in the NBA Finals. Jordan didn't play them, because they were in the West and those nikkas couldn't even get their bum ass teams out of the West; so how exactly were they going to play the East Champs? As it is Olajuwon didn't win a damn thing until Jordan retired the first time and Robinson didn't win anything until Jordan retired the second time. Btw, you do realize that except for the Lakers; the East was stronger than the West back in the day, right? The East Champs almost always won it except for Magic's run. So what exactly would Olajuwon's bum ass team going to do with Jordan?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I am beginning to see that Coli nikkas basketball knowledge is of the teams and players of last 15 years. Anything beyond that and those nikkas lack knowledge.

This nikka actually wrote that Isaiah Thomas prime was 83-87. Yet a couple of sentences later he has to try to somehow explain away how Isaiah won the NBA Finals MVP in 1990.

So that is admission that his prime was not over after the 87 season. In fact the nikka's stats the very next year after winning the Finals MVP were MP 37.4; PPG 18.5; steals 1.5; assists 7.2; which were in line with his career stats.

Isiah Thomas

Being the best player on your team during the Finals does NOT mean that you were at your peak.

Didn't I just give you a whole list of examples where someone was the Finals MVP when they clearly weren't at their peak abilities? And your only comeback is to...repeat the same thing again?

Not to mention that Jordan did NOT win any titles against 1990 Isaiah. Again, you seem to have a hard time understanding this.

1992 Isaiah was swept in the first round by New York. 1993 Isaiah had a losing record, didn't even make the playoffs, and got ready to retire.

The only time Jordan faced supposed "peak Isaiah" was in 1991, when Isaiah averaged 16 and 6 in a ECF loss to the Bulls.

So that is admission that his prime was not over after the 87 season. In fact the nikka's stats the very next year after winning the Finals MVP were MP 37.4; PPG 18.5; steals 1.5; assists 7.2; which were in line with his career stats.

Isiah Thomas

And no, you don't hit your "career average" during your peak. The whole point of it being your peak is that you are BETTER than your career average.

The "peak Isaiah" was the guy who put up:

PPG 22.9; steals 2.5; assists 7.8, 2nd-team All-NBA
PPG 21.3; steals 2.5; assists 11.1, 1st-team All-NBA
PPG 21.2; steals 2.3; assists 13.9, 1st-team All-NBA
PPG 20.9; steals 2.2; assists 10.8, 1st-team All-NBA
PPG 20.6; steals 1.9; assists 10.0, 2nd team All-NBA

And you're bragging about 18.5-1.5-7.2 when he can't even make 3rd-team all-NBA and calling it peak?

In your world, "peak Isaiah Thomas" was getting beat out as an All-NBA guard by Mark Price, Dale Ellis, Joe Dumars, Kevin Johnson, and Drazen Petrovic.

Funny how you didn't mention any of those guys as the great players that Jordan had to overcome in his Finals runs, even though they were all all-NBA players closer to Jordan's run than Isaiah Thomas was.

If that's "peak Isaiah Thomas", then bragging about Jordan having to overcome Isaiah for 6 titles isn't much of a brag.

Finally, of course Jordan didn't play Olajuwon and Robinson in the NBA Finals. Jordan didn't play them, because they were in the West and those nikkas couldn't even get their bum ass teams out of the West; so how exactly were they going to play the East Champs? As it is Olajuwon didn't win a damn thing until Jordan retired the first time and Robinson didn't win anything until Jordan retired the second time. Btw, you do realize that except for the Lakers; the East was stronger than the West back in the day, right? The East Champs almost always won it except for Magic's run. So what exactly would Olajuwon's bum ass team going to do with Jordan?

Purposely sabotaging your own argument?




How can you brag about Jordan winning titles despite the likes of Olajuwon and Robinson being around, then point out that those guys had bum-ass teams in a WEAK West?

Of COURSE those bum-ass teams wouldn't do anything with the stacked Bulls. They sucked because the league was way watered down.

Are you trying to make my argument for me?

 

[Wacky D]

Jordan personally developed Pippen

OKAY

make another pippen.

The bulls were a .500 team when MJ didn't play from 91-98 the stats don't lie. Kyrie and Wade> Pippen

you were already corrected by MULTIPLE people on this. and yet, youre stil repeating the same garbage.

STOP THE NONSENSE.

and why don't you look up the cavs & heat's records without LeBron instead?

I can tell you that 3 shot Kyrie took it damn sure wouldn't have been Pippen or anybody else taking it.

steve kerr?
john paxson?


and for the record, I do recall pippen hitting a game-winner, only to be yelled at by Jordan for taking the shot.

THE 1991 BULLS ROSTER...... that shyt was horrible, but Jordan got them nikkas to 67 -15 and a championship

nikkas always come up with jordan had scottie, but scottie was just in his 4th year and coming off a year of being bytch slapped by the pistons and suffering from migranes... Jordan carried this team in 91 by himself.. yeah scottie got good defensively, but his offensive game was still average...



Armstrong, B.J.
Cartwright, Bill
Grant, Horace
Hansen, Bobby
Hodges, Craig
Jordan, Michael
King, Stacey
Hopson, Dennis
Nevitt, Chuck
Paxson, John
Perdue, Will
Pippen, Scottie
Levingston, Cliff
Williams, Scott
Randall, Mark

roster is good.

so where all the teams with better rosters that year?

Jordan's losses came to the Pistons. Lebron lost to the Orlando Magic, to a flabby Celtics team. We really think 2011 mavs beat the Bulls? On the other hand put lebron vs Detroit bad boys

I didn't know that Jordan and LeBron were out there playing 1 on 12s.

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

OKAY

make another pippen.





you were already corrected by MULTIPLE people on this. and yet, youre stil repeating the same garbage.

STOP THE NONSENSE.

and why don't you look up the cavs & heat's records without LeBron instead?






steve kerr?
john paxson?


and for the record, I do recall pippen hitting a game-winner, only to be yelled at by Jordan for taking the shot.





roster is good.

so where all the teams with better rosters that year?





I didn't know that Jordan and LeBron were out there playing 1 on 12s.

He retired

 

[Thegospel]

OKAY

make another pippen.





you were already corrected by MULTIPLE people on this. and yet, youre stil repeating the same garbage.

STOP THE NONSENSE.

and why don't you look up the cavs & heat's records without LeBron instead?






steve kerr?
john paxson?


and for the record, I do recall pippen hitting a game-winner, only to be yelled at by Jordan for taking the shot.





roster is good.

so where all the teams with better rosters that year?





I didn't know that Jordan and LeBron were out there playing 1 on 12s.

You ducked my other posts which had pure facts. You a fukk nikka for real.

 

[Wacky D]

He retired

hes played with a ton of other players on the bulls and later on the wizards.

what happened? make another pippen.

You ducked my other posts which had pure facts. You a fukk nikka for real.

watch your mouth.

and what did I duck? I don't even recall getting into an exchange with you.

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

hes played with a ton of other players on the bulls and later on the wizards.

what happened? make another pippen.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say?

Jordan took Pippen under his wing and developed him so to use Pippen's talent as a knock on Jordan would be stupid.

 

[Wacky D]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say?

Jordan took Pippen under his wing and developed him so to use Pippen's talent as a knock on Jordan would be stupid.

pippen was the #8 pick, and he would've been higher if he went to a bigger school. hes not just some random player that they plucked up.

if pippen is a product of Michael Jordan, then Jordan should've been able to make another pippen.