What started the shift from simple rhymes (BusyBee/Run DMC) 2 the advanced lyricism of the late 80s?

[kingdizzy01]

spoonie g stole his flow from valee tho

 

[mobbinfms]

Busy Bee I don’t mean to be bold
But out thst baw ditty baw bullshyt on hold



If I had to isolate one moment, it would be when Kool Moe Dee battled Busy Bee at the Harlem World in 81. Especially the end where KMD starts rhyming fast.

I was lucky to be there that night celebrating my 30th birthday with friends
Witnessed history

 

[get these nets]

Busy Bee I don’t mean to be bold
But out thst baw ditty baw bullshyt on hold



If I had to isolate one moment, it would be when Kool Moe Dee battled Busy Bee at the Harlem World in 81. Especially the end where KMD starts rhyming fast.

I was lucky to be there that night celebrating my 30th birthday with friends
Witnessed history

Kool Moe Dee the father of battling and rap beefs

I didn't buy the album, so I never saw it, but on the How You Like Me Now album he had an insert grading the skills of the current rappers out..in 1988

when you factor him challenging/airing out Busy Bee, the overt diss of LL on the album cover, the rap report card.....he has to take that crown of King Wants Smoke

 

[TripleAgent]

grandmaster cas and kool moe dee were the ones with complex rhyme patterns and flows

they helped propel hip hop forward and inspire the kanes and the ll cool js

This

Grandmaster Caz, Treacherous Three, Silver Fox are generally given the credit for advanced rhyme schemes from that era bridging the gap between the Kurtis Blow types to Rakim and G Rap

And this.

Kool Moe Dee the father of battling and rap beefs

I didn't buy the album, so I never saw it, but on the How You Like Me Now album he had an insert grading the skills of the current rappers out..in 1988

when you factor him challenging/airing out Busy Bee, the overt diss of LL on the album cover, the rap report card.....he has to take that crown of King Wants Smoke

This always cracks me up. MCs are egotistical, but there was some serious hate here lmao.

 

[IntellectualViolence]

Just listen to the Busy Bee vs KMD battle.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

the earliest shift was dj hollywood/cowboy/crowd hypers to grandmaster caz/melle







the next shift was busy bee to kool moe dee







rakim comes from kool moe dee/caz/melle mel

 

[gluvnast]

Lyricism always been paramount, but simple elementary rhymes was what sold albums. Busy Bee was the chief rocker simple due to his basic rhyme scheme and his call and response techniques. But the change really is due to KOOL MOE DEE battling Busy Bee and fukk'd up everyone heads. That's when rappers began to focus on lyricism.

RUN-DMC was on a different page, because they change the game of IMAGE and how rappers should look. Their popularity is in connection of their look and street bare-bones production. Never so much the lyrics.

When it comes to wax, T La Rock "It's Yours" set the new blueprint of upper tier lyricism, and it's the same style that LL Cool J was inspired by. However, the biggest influences that people like Rakim and Big Daddy Kane, they will say Grandmaster Caz.

And, of course, there's Melle Mel. But had it not been for Sylvia Robinson of Sugar Hill Records in pushing The Message and having a ghostwriter/performer to do the 1st two verses and Melle Mel the last verse then conscious rap wouldn't been recognize back in those days. It would of still be simple party raps.

 

[boskey]

"Keep on rapping cuz thats my dream, A from Moe Dee for Stickin to Themes"- Beastie Boys, Intergalactic

 

[IllmaticDelta]

they always say that

Caz, Moe dee, and Melle Mel were the first 3 kings

gonna assume that melle mel had some sort of influence on all future rappers....including Ra

Rakim and Krs don't have the obviously clear influences that kane and ll have....neither does g rap

this

 

[ProfessionallyTrill]

Doesnt Rakim get the universal credit for turning rap from:

"BASKETBALL is my favorite sport/I like the way they dribble up and down the court!"

to

"It's been a long time, since I left you/Without a dope rhyme to step to"

 

[TripleAgent]

Doesnt Rakim get the universal credit for turning rap from:

"BASKETBALL is my favorite sport/I like the way they dribble up and down the court!"

to

"It's been a long time, since I left you/Without a dope rhyme to step to"

Mostly, but that's mainly because the lyrical cats before him didn't have hit records you would hear on the radio, or had videos and such. A 40+ old New Yorker who studied could probably plot it out with way more detail.

 

[Waterproof]

Kool Moe Dee, Grandmaster Melle Mel and Grandmaster Caz is the reason

 

[Ghostface Trillah]

The Rakims, Kool G Raps and Big Daddy Kanes of the world had no frame of reference or blueprint for them to explode lyrically the way they did. (Nas, Jay, Big etc were fortunate enough to have the blueprint they set for them in the late 80s, and Lupe, Kendrick and Cole were inspired by that 90s era)

What exactly changed the tide (and how the hell do we change it again?)

Not true. They had Grandmaster Caz and Melle Mel. You can listen to Beat Street Breakdown and that was ahead of it's time in 82

 

[get these nets]

"Keep on rapping cuz thats my dream, A from Moe Dee for Stickin to Themes"- Beastie Boys, Intergalactic

Didn't fukk with Beastie Boys since Paul's Boutique, but I have heard Intergalactic and never understood that line. Thanks

 

[Big Mel]

Don’t forget about T La Rock!