What was the biggest reason for the drop off sales wise between Diddy’s 1st and 2nd albums?

[CrimsonTider]

Now that I look at it, Puffy’s albums outside of No Way out were either disappointments or big flops

Sean Combs discography - Wikipedia

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The saga continues bombed

He’s been trying to put out an album for the last 2 years but all the singles keep flopping

 

[Consigliere]

The album wasn’t good enough.
Same thing with Double Up.

Stop retconning shyt you weren’t a part of.

 

[YourMumsRoom]

I don't know if lyricism as a whole went out the window in 1999. I mean, Eminem was definitely a lyricist at this time. There was Mos Def. Nas was still Nas. Kast was still Kast. Eightball & MJG was still Eightball & MJG. You could turn on the radio and even hear Pharoahe Monch's "Simon Says" and the remix. Slick Rick had a comeback. Mobb Deep released their biggest album commercially. Lyricism still shined in 1999.

Definitely agree to a degree, the point I was making was that it weren't aimed at the Black communities anymore so the balance of perspectives was wavering. Artists had massive budgets and had to sell to recoup. (I.e Busta and Janet Jackson). In the way the Lyor era at Def Jam eclipsed the way hip-hop labels had worked in the past...until Iovine busy.

 

[~*--------(Big Boom)]

Everybody jumped off the puffy train after that wack Godzilla song

 

[raoulduke187]

I love both albums

 

[YourMumsRoom]

It's ironic tho cos we all wanted our favourites to blow up and 80's/90's and I agree, they got richer quicker (started live out their rhymes) yet there was less an opportunity to grow when they weren't seen as popping/ in style anymore.
Hip-hop back then was also about the 'discovery process:' I remember when I first heard Nas and Jay in the UK on Westwood, DJ 279 or DJ Matt White, as well as Tribe and LL; you could choose who you liked due it being a wide genre. The late 90's changed that completely.

 

[vdfebduderocks]

Few things:

1) No Way Out was in the works while BIG was alive. That album was coming out. It was originally called Hell Up in Harlem. The title was changed after BIG's death.
2) No Way Out had the BIG stimulus as well as the LOX, Mase, and the prime Hitmen (Stevie J, D-Dot, Nashiem Myrick).
3) No Way Out had timeless singles
4) Once Shiny Suit became out of fashion in early 1998, that changed the formula for Puff. Also....
5) June 1st 1999 changed the game. That's when Napster was introduced. It effectively destroyed No Limit, partially slowed down Cash Money (though the Cash Money/RR Tour kept them afloat through the 99/00), and put guys like Diddy behind the 8 ball.
6) Diddy was releasing Sean John around that time.
7) Forever had absolutely no timeless singles. Nothing you can remember. The production was different. Gone was Stevie J. They tried Mario Winans on the production, but it really wasn't good. Mase and the LOX were gone. J-Lo wasn't leveraged. Shyne was barely used. This should've been a compilation, not a solo album.

 

[CoCKy GeNiuS]

This can be its own thread. How fast hip hop moved during the 90’s.

What's crazy is around the time Puffy had ran the charts in 97 people started shifting away from Bone Thugs & Harmony.

 

[frush11]

Folks were really listening to Puff albums and not just the singles? Wow, I never realized or recall this

 

[360dagod]

It's all relative. Everyone knew Puff couldn't rap and ain't write his shyt, so his draw was his crew at the time, his ability to make hits and curate an album.

His talent scouting in the early to mid 90s was next level. BIG, Mase and Lox along with a very solid R&B lineup was the best roster in the game. But it fell apart quick.

The Saga Continues did alright, but you can't replace BIG, Mase and Jada as your writers and costars with Black Rob, Loon, G Dep and Mark Curry and not see a huge drop off.

We Invented The Remix did well and had a couple huge hits. Bad Boys 2 soundtrack, though not a solo album, showed he still had touch as a hitmaker and curator, that was a big time album summer of 2003. But dude was never able to find another superstar to prop up the label and boost his "solo" album sales.

Yeah he was still having billboard top 40 singles which showed the relevance needed for his outside ventures...

He wasn't gonna bring out the tourbus energy for the black rob/g-dep types who couldn't keep themselves clean

 

[JustCKing]

Folks were really listening to Puff albums and not just the singles? Wow, I never realized or recall this

No Way Out was more than singles:

Is This The End?
Young G's Perspective
I Love You Baby
What You Gonna Do
Do You Know
I Got The Power

 

[Street Knowledge]

It's all relative. Everyone knew Puff couldn't rap and ain't write his shyt, so his draw was his crew at the time, his ability to make hits and curate an album.

His talent scouting in the early to mid 90s was next level. BIG, Mase and Lox along with a very solid R&B lineup was the best roster in the game. But it fell apart quick.

The Saga Continues did alright, but you can't replace BIG, Mase and Jada as your writers and costars with Black Rob, Loon, G Dep and Mark Curry and not see a huge drop off.

We Invented The Remix did well and had a couple huge hits. Bad Boys 2 soundtrack, though not a solo album, showed he still had touch as a hitmaker and curator, that was a big time album summer of 2003. But dude was never able to find another superstar to prop up the label and boost his "solo" album sales.

No platinum(or even gold)plaque in 2001 for and established artist is “alright”?

He’s been trying to put out an album for the last 2 years but all the singles keep flopping

He thought act bad was gonna be the song of the summer that shyt FLOPPED

 

[CrimsonTider]

The album wasn’t good enough.
Same thing with Double Up.

Stop retconning shyt you weren’t a part of.

A lot of bad albums sell off of hype. Just look at the 1st rap album to go #1 this year. Quality isn’t really an answer

 

[Mike Wins]

No platinum(or even gold)plaque in 2001 for and established artist is “alright”?

Labels drag feet on RIAA certifications all the time. According to RIAA, The Chronic been stuck at 3x platinum since 1993 the label gotta pay for the certification and provide the proof, a lot of times they don't bother

That Saga Continues album sold 186,000 week one and stayed on the charts 19 weeks, no way it ain't go gold eventually. And there's not a bunch of big name guests on there. Let's Get It and Bad Boy For Life got a lot of play on the video stations and radio. It did about as well as it could given the artist lineup on there. The Remix album did better because they had a bunch of star guests on there

Like I said Puff was never seen as a serious solo artist who was gonna go multi platinum off his name alone, No Way Out was an all star album with great singles, elite production, unlimited sample budget, elite ghostwriters and multiple appearances from BIG, Mase and Lil Kim at the peak of their popularity, Lox and Jay both had a heavy buzz at the time and was on there

 

[Change]

Outside of what's been said looking back at how many beats were made by Nashiem Myrick and Six July I'm surprised at how much I didn't like this album. I was really looking forward to hearing new beats by them at the time and I just didn't feel them.