what would a top 5 list in 1994 look like?

[bigbadbossup2012]

Get mad cause you have no understanding about hip hop.
Aol this bullshyt is deflection by you because you do not know the culture. All you know is your pass system and you pass system is not indicative of hiphop culture. Live a no culture based life while trying to get approval for a culture you know nuffin about and not at all apart of.


Art Barr


All this is deflection in popularity and not actual skill.

That is what you do not get and it is all deflection. Aox you can feel good about yur flawed pass system. Next snoop was not having nikkaz on tikt like bone

You said bone was bigger,amongst other claims,i dispelled them

It was actually an argument and characters you inserted into this convo.
I just met your challenges and won everyone of them easily.

 

[Art Barr]

You said bone was bigger,amongst other claims,i dispelled them

It was actually an argument and characters you inserted into this convo.
I just met your challenges and won everyone of them easily.

Not at all,...
Also I know you not hood because back then in 94.
nikkaz emulated bone, bizzy specifically.
nikkaz emulated dalvin and devante.


You talking sales numbers like you white and also far from some hiphop shyt. In real nature in 94...snoop and Pac were not bigger than bizzy or bone.

I am speaking on this from a real time perspective from really being there. You speaking on some numbers and bullshyt. When I already know the style that nikkaz was on was from bone. That is how I know bone was bigger. Bone was bigger than Pac when they collabed and bone was bigger than big when they collabed and that js why Pac and big had to collab with bone. Bone did not have to collab with Pac or big simple as that. Also, bone was better than cube because we know they wrote their shyt and it was the style that influenced everything right now, period. All that thug shyt is bone originally. Pac clone war fans like you like to front but you was not around in the hood for bone. I know so because when I cited the change of radio and the like there is no reply from you in that. Everything is your bullshyt pass system created from MTV and IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ACTUAL HIPHOP CULTURE.

Plus this whole deflection based shyt you on is because I am dispelling your bullshyt at every deflection. Just to illustrate you do not know wtf you talembout on a hood level and definately not on an actual hip hop culture level.

Which is why through all your skimming you keep glossing and never answered where you were from. Plus you kept asking me about nas...when any questions about nas I answered in depthly before you asked. Yet you in here re-asking me about nas and I already indepthly posted in this thread consistently about nas as well.

Now take you fukk'n L and stfu.


Also we wanna know your age and where you from as well?

Now hit you bullet numbers for that and skim over it, again...you fake ass toy.


Art Barr

 

[BmoreGorilla]

That ain't true. Pac's music was impactful since "Brenda's Got A Baby". Pac gets slighted in the "lyrical" department by people who have a skewed view of what a lyricist is. Pac wasn't a spitter who was going to put his skill on display on a boom bap beat with no real topic other than to show how ill his wordplay, vocabulary, and rhyme shemes were. Pac could do it, but it subtle because it took a back seat to the overall song. Like people would likely overlook what he was doing with alliteration on "If I Die 2nite" because it's just a dope song overall. I never understood how we could celebrate Nas as one of the greatest lyricists ever and act like Pac was Dr. Seuss level when both are street poets to the core gifted with showcasing imagery, detailed storytelling, and metaphors.

The thing is back when the top MCs were being discussed Pac’s name was never mentioned before he died. That’s a fact. You prolly would’ve heard Buckshots name first tbh. Pac had the name he did due to the controversy and acting. The music was actually secondary. All the things we use like influence and impact to rank rappers now didn’t exist like that back then. It was all about who was the nicest and that was it. And when it came down to talking MCs strictly on their bars Pac fell short

It's just hate,that's all.

How is that hate? I’m just telling you what was going on at the time. It wasn’t like Pac wasn’t popular with a lot of hits. He just wasn’t viewed as one of the top MCs

 

[Art Barr]

The thing is back when the top MCs were being discussed Pac’s name was never mentioned before he died. That’s a fact. You prolly would’ve heard Buckshots name first tbh. Pac had the name he did due to the controversy and acting. The music was actually secondary. All the things we use like influence and impact to rank rappers now didn’t exist like that back then. It was all about who was the nicest and that was it. And when it came down to tanking MCs strictly on their bars Pac fell short



How is that hate? I’m just telling you what was going on at the time. It wasn’t like Pac wasn’t popular with a lot of hits. He just wasn’t viewed as one of the top MCs

That nikka, @bigbadbossup2012 talking points is straight off MTV, and prison industrial economy bullshyt breh.
Hr knows nuffin about emcee skills and that is why this deflection base nikka keep asking all these bullshyt questions. Yet notice he never posted a damn skill discussion on none of these nikkaz as emcees. shyt is all his MTV based pass system and has nuffin to do with actual emcee'n.

Art Barr

 

[JustCKing]

The thing is back when the top MCs were being discussed Pac’s name was never mentioned before he died. That’s a fact. You prolly would’ve heard Buckshots name first tbh. Pac had the name he did due to the controversy and acting. The music was actually secondary. All the things we use like influence and impact to rank rappers now didn’t exist like that back then. It was all about who was the nicest and that was it. And when it came down to talking MCs strictly on their bars Pac fell short



How is that hate? I’m just telling you what was going on at the time. It wasn’t like Pac wasn’t popular with a lot of hits. He just wasn’t viewed as one of the top MCs

I can't speak for everybody, but I watched my brother become a Pac stan the moment he saw "Brenda's Got A Baby". Not only this, but I got to witness the effect Pac's music had on people. The teen pregnancy aspect of the song was something that connected because the lyrics instantly drew comparisons with young women we knew. Every Pac release was impactful. I had a neighbor who blasted "Dear Mama" and "Shed So Many Tears" religiously.

I already addressed the fact that Pac wasn't a "bar" rapper. He wasn't out here spittin' specifically to showcase his greatness. Same goes for Cube and and to a lesser extent Scarface.

Much of the controversy surrounding Pac came from the music unless we are talking about his run ins with the law and getting shot.

Influence and impact was definitely a metric back that even if it wasn't referred to as such. You like a certain rapper based off how their music makes you feel. On a larger scale, these MC's that were top shelf even then, moved culture.

I'm not going to front like Pac didn't pick up bandwagon fans after he died because I also witnessed another relative buy All Eyez On Me the Monday after Pac died. He said Pac was the best rapper ever. I never knew he was a fan. Dude was older than all of us and I never even knew he liked rap until that moment.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

I can't speak for everybody, but I watched my brother become a Pac stan the moment he saw "Brenda's Got A Baby". Not only this, but I got to witness the effect Pac's music had on people. The teen pregnancy aspect of the song was something that connected because the lyrics instantly drew comparisons with young women we knew. Every Pac release was impactful. I had a neighbor who blasted "Dear Mama" and "Shed So Many Tears" religiously.

I already addressed the fact that Pac wasn't a "bar" rapper. He wasn't out here spittin' specifically to showcase his greatness. Same goes for Cube and and to a lesser extent Scarface.

Much of the controversy surrounding Pac came from the music unless we are talking about his run ins with the law and getting shot.

Influence and impact was definitely a metric back that even if it wasn't referred to as such. You like a certain rapper based off how their music makes you feel. On a larger scale, these MC's that were top shelf even then, moved culture.

I'm not going to front like Pac didn't pick up bandwagon fans after he died because I also witnessed another relative buy All Eyez On Me the Monday after Pac died. He said Pac was the best rapper ever. I never knew he was a fan. Dude was older than all of us and I never even knew he liked rap until that moment.

Hip hop didn't this have enough history yet to be talking about influence and impact. And that would definitely be irrelevant when talking about Pac becuz he didn’t have any clones till after he died.

Pac was a very polarizing dude. Either you loved him or hated him. I had friends who loved and some like me who thought he was corny. I did like some of his music but there were others who were much better at the time imo. Bars and classic albums mattered more than anything else at the time. Cube had both. Pac’s first two albums were average at best back in an era where most careers wouldn’t have lasted. His name being in the news extended his career

 

[JustCKing]

Hip hop didn't this have enough history yet to be talking about influence and impact. And that would definitely be irrelevant when talking about Pac becuz he didn’t have any clones till after he died.

Pac was a very polarizing dude. Either you loved him or hated him. I had friends who loved and some like me who thought he was corny. I did like some of his music but there were others who were much better at the time imo. Bars and classic albums mattered more than anything else at the time. Cube had both. Pac’s first two albums were average at best back in an era where most careers wouldn’t have lasted. His name being in the news extended his career

A lot of the things we now discuss, Hip Hop was still a little too young for.

Bars and classic albums weren't really the barometer for greatness. A lot of the albums that are hailed as classics now, you wouldn't have people running around screaming they were classics because it was still fresh and new. They were albums that people just knew what it was and that an artist was dope or not. Pac's first two albums being average is subjective.

You're downplaying Pac seriously here. I wasn't the biggest Pac fan either, but to say him being in the news extended his career is bogus. Even more bogus is implying that his career wouldn't have survived without it.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

A lot of the things we now discuss, Hip Hop was still a little too young for.

Bars and classic albums weren't really the barometer for greatness. A lot of the albums that are hailed as classics now, you wouldn't have people running around screaming they were classics because it was still fresh and new. They were albums that people just knew what it was and that an artist was dope or not. Pac's first two albums being average is subjective.

You're downplaying Pac seriously here. I wasn't the biggest Pac fan either, but to say him being in the news extended his career is bogus. Even more bogus is implying that his career wouldn't have survived without it.

Hip hop moved a lot faster back then. In mid 90s 88 was regarded as the golden era. All those albums were considered classics just a few years later. Most rappers never made it past 3 albums. They usually had good debuts, the sophomore jinx album, then the third album that was better than the second but not enough to make a label wanna keep them. A lot were done by the time they got 25. If Pac didn’t have the profile he did he wouldn’t have lasted

 

[JustCKing]

Hip hop moved a lot faster back then. In mid 90s 88 was regarded as the golden era. All those albums were considered classics just a few years later. Most rappers never made it past 3 albums. They usually had good debuts, the sophomore jinx album, then the third album that was better than the second but not enough to make a label wanna keep them. A lot were done by the time they got 25. If Pac didn’t have the profile he did he wouldn’t have lasted

Hip Hop indeed moved fast, but a lot of the music that is considered classic again didn't have people running around saying a lot of the albums that are now classics as classics.

Pac was five albums in before he died. He had two good albums, a dope compilation album, a definitive album, and another album that was his biggest album (and widely considered his best) before he died. He did all this by age 25, so your logic really doesn't apply to Pac. Who knows what would've been had he lived. He may have gone on and still be dropping relevant music today or he might've fallen off with his very next release. Nobody knows. It's speculation.

 

[JustCKing]

And as for Pac's influence in 1994:

I'm like Pac, I'm making mail but I still live the thug life--- Scarface, "The White Sheet"

^^^ This like right after Thug Life dropped. It was more than just album, it became something that was cultural and it was something that was associated with Pac.

 

[smokeurobinson]

puba was on another level but dead by 94, and viewed in the same severe falloff try hard sellout swag tommy came to be in that exact time too.


art barr

why I say Puba was qualified for top acknowledgment by 94


Pubas style alone going into 91 put him as a top lyrical contender.

I dont even have to speak on 92 and him pushing Tommy Hilfigers popularity.


going into 93 Puba pretty much sealed his historic stamp by being on the title track of Marys most acknowledged classic album.




Whenever someone points the next generation in the direction of Marys most popular album they will be forced to acknowledge Puba.




By 93 Puba was able to dwell amongst the underground realm as a measure of keeping his name out there while also being aligned with the gritty. Puba doing his thing on one out of the 2 most popular Strictly Roots songs






Puba doing his style on a Fat Joe track with Diamond D on the beat. By this time u can see Puba alligning with Joe way before he would be the Fat Joe we all know. This speaks on Pubas state at the time as he was alligned with one of the grittiest coming out of NYC 1993







I never saw this video till Youtube existed but notice how this was pieced together. Puba is the grand finisher while Treach and 2pac are the opening acts. This is 1993




By 94 Puba had already laid it down with Brand Nubians and had a solo banger in 92. By 93 he was just laying in the cut.

By 94 Puba was having fun spitting over beats with "Oh Susana" on the breaks







Would That be a sign of falling off? I say no because there was still this air of anticipation as to what Puba would do following Brand Nubians 3rd album. I say the air of anticipation is what kept Puba still in top ranking. It wouldnt be till 95 when Puba dropped 'I like It' that would seal the deal. NYC was on some Wu Tang shyt. Tho I do remeber nikkaz fukking with this track and it got airplay.




I'm not gonna bother posting the next single with Kid from Kid n Play tho that song does remind me of my senior year it was the last time Puba as a solo was making noise that had some relevance to the time until Brand Nubians would reunite with Dont Let It Go To Your Head.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

00000000000000000000000000000022


Not at all,...
1.Also I know you not hood because back then in 94.
nikkaz emulated bone, bizzy specifically.
nikkaz emulated dalvin and devante.


2.You talking sales numbers like you white and also far from some hiphop shyt. 3.In real nature in 94...snoop and Pac were not bigger than bizzy or bone.

4.I am speaking on this from a real time perspective from really being there. You speaking on some numbers and bullshyt. When I already know the style that nikkaz was on was from bone. That is how I know bone was bigger.5.Bone was bigger than Pac when they collabed and bone was bigger than big when they collabed and that js why 6.Pac and big had to collab with bone. 7.Bone did not have to collab with Pac or big simple as that. 8.Also, bone was better than cube because we know they wrote their shyt and it was the style that influenced everything right now, period. 9. All that thug shyt is bone originally. Pac clone war fans like you like to front but you was not around in the hood for bone. I know so because when I cited the change of radio and the like there is no reply from you in that. Everything is your bullshyt pass system created from MTV and IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ACTUAL HIPHOP CULTURE.

10.Plus this whole deflection based shyt you on is because I am dispelling your bullshyt at every deflection. Just to illustrate you do not know wtf you talembout on a hood level and definately not on an actual hip hop culture level.

Which is why through all your skimming you keep glossing and never answered where you were from. Plus you kept asking me about nas...11.when any questions about nas I answered in depthly before you asked. Yet you in here re-asking me about nas and I already indepthly posted in this thread consistently about nas as well.

Now take you fukk'n L and stfu.12.


Also we wanna know your age and where you from as well?13

Now hit you bullet numbers for that and skim over it, again...you fake ass toy.


Art Barr

1.Lol,you "know" nothing. You assume i'm not hood, as a hater based deflection,due to me sonning all your arguments. It's corny


2.You spoke on whom was bigger out of an assortment of mainstream acts. I provided factual data that you can't refute. So you resort to crying and complaining

3.Nonsense.
Less than 7 verses on CREEPIN ON A COME UP does not trump
Snoop's appearance on deep cover,the chronic,doggystyle,murder was the case and above the rim

It also does not trump
pac appearance on Same song,gotta get mine,2pacalypse now,S4MN,Thuglife,Starring in Juice. Starring in Poetic justice,above the rim and dropping classics on both soundtracks

4.I was there silly nikka.
5.objection,we're talking through 1994 only
6.see # 5
7.Neither had to. All entities were good regardless
8.No one's talking about bone vs cube. You're so emotional,you're arguing with yourself and forgot to stop typing,i guess

9."i live the thuglife baaaaby i'm hopeless,choking on Indo,tryna keep my focus" Stop

10.Deflection is calling a black man,white because you're being sonned.

11.Ok give me a link to what exactly Nasir changed about hiphop

12.No L's for Bigbad

13.Who is "we"? If you're looking to get know men better. Go find a faq website and have a ball. No thanks

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

How is that hate? I’m just telling you what was going on at the time. It wasn’t like Pac wasn’t popular with a lot of hits. He just wasn’t viewed as one of the top MCs

Saying pac was only top 7 cause he died is hate.
It negates the fact that he dropped thuglife,MATW,AEOM,7DT back to back to back.
Keep hating though

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

That nikka, @bigbadbossup2012 talking points is straight off MTV, and prison industrial economy bullshyt breh.
Hr knows nuffin about emcee skills and that is why this deflection base nikka keep asking all these bullshyt questions. Yet notice he never posted a damn skill discussion on none of these nikkaz as emcees. shyt is all his MTV based pass system and has nuffin to do with actual emcee'n.

Art Barr

We're discussing major deal having commercial rappers,are we not?

Why argue never ending opinions when i have facts,a much greater weapon.
You could big up Kool g.
I could listen to him and hear a redundant,repetitive mush mouth rapper with pretty good lyrics .
However if you heard one song on Live And Let Die,you heard em all. Album is one big song. It's aight

You could get hyped an argue back and forth forever.
Fact is Cube made a much bigger mark and has been involved with much more classic and succesful records than him from the late 80's through 1994. Is what it is

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Hip hop didn't this have enough history yet to be talking about influence and impact. And that would definitely be irrelevant when talking about Pac becuz he didn’t have any clones till after he died.

Pac was a very polarizing dude. Either you loved him or hated him. I had friends who loved and some like me who thought he was corny. I did like some of his music but there were others who were much better at the time imo. Bars and classic albums mattered more than anything else at the time. Cube had both. Pac’s first two albums were average at best back in an era where most careers wouldn’t have lasted. His name being in the news extended his career

The problem with this type of talk is that it's all subjective.
What ends up happening is that most people start touting their opinions as FACT while downplaying other's opinions as just opinions.

Which is why i often go to data. based facts when talking.