what would a top 5 list in 1994 look like?

[Jinx`]

00000000000000000000000000000022


Excuse making cause you not apart of the culture of hiphop and you know this.

Now get mad make excuses about work a d posting cause you not the man where you work at all. As I pretty much created the profitability for you to log on at work on the internet and get the very products that allow you a field to type in to the dedicated connection. Plus I am a legend online from just posting while being number one in sales at work and doing all this visionary sales shyt forthe internet to allow you to post.

So keep making fukk'n excuses.

Also while I was doing this,...i am the real time protege to a legend to the greatest battle emcee in the history of hiphop, too.

So once again, you a bullshyt artist and excuse maker. Yousa toy, breh.

No real bboy is ever propping no left eye as a real emcee, nikka...stop.




Art Barr

It was a rough morning, so I came off rude earlier.. Let me apologize. We both represent God, so I can't lose myself.

Now..

You're saying Lisa isn't a "real" MC and isn't for the culture in what context? Compared to who? I ain't catch exactly what you were saying.

 

[Art Barr]

It was a rough morning, so I came off rude earlier.. Let me apologize. We both represent God, so I can't lose myself.

Now..

You're saying Lisa isn't a "real" MC and isn't for the culture in what context? Compared to who? I ain't catch exactly what you were saying.

go read what I posted about left eye and stop acting like.
You, not in a dialogue on a message board, breh.


Art Barr

 

[Jinx`]

go read what I posted about left eye and stop acting like.
You, not in a dialogue on a message board, breh.


Art Barr

In other words, say it shorter and clearer..

You can remain bitter if you want, but I moved on.. If you want a man to man discussion, you will explain yourself.

Otherwise we can end it right here. I don't care breh. You came to me

 

[IllmaticDelta]

@bigbadbossup2012

 

[Art Barr]

In other words, say it shorter and clearer..

You can remain bitter if you want, but I moved on.. If you want a man to man discussion, you will explain yourself.

Otherwise we can end it right here. I don't care breh. You came to me

Stop it.

You sound emo as that thang.
To the point you self admittedly said you were bugg'n.

You on a message board making excuses.


Art Barr

 

[Jinx`]

Stop it.

You sound emo as that thang.
To the point you self admittedly said you were bugg'n.

You on a message board making excuses.


Art Barr

Alright, internet legend.. Peace.

 

[smokeurobinson]

Wish 2000 was considered like you saying but after 93, puba was considered the commercial sellout backpack guy. He is why the negative term, connotation of backpacker is derogatory.
No bboy back then allowed backpacker or t other deragotary term hip hopper. It is a reason wearing two straps went out in 1993 and we only rocked one strap with the zipper forward to get up on the alice pack in 94. His first album was not well received culturally at all like one for all either.


Puba caught significant backlash for always melding Mary too. This is 1994, rnb was not allowed in hip hop like that past the selective grassroots bands making fusion like the heavies and towai tei production. Past that puba somehow went off the deep end commercially and the result is he fell off. In this exact time brand Nubian with the Jamar and sadat were given higher cultural weight as bboys and puba was looked at as on some prima donna sellout shyt. To the point when brandnubjan finally got back together the union of all of them could not save it. As puba had been fell off and lost his cultural respect in 1994. Puba was his most Influential in the early brand Nubian girbaud twelve inch cover days.

that bboy/backpacker thing u talking sounds nice but I specifically remember right after that 360 video Tommy Hil became the in thing in an era were Polo and Karl Kani were king , Boss and Guess were popping and Cross colors were fading out. From were I'm stnding that would qualify as being well recieved by the culture. thats 92 going into 93 to the point where when looking at the Tommy Hil era theres no way u cant look back and not see Pubas influence.


Or maybe u talking straight music...U say Puba doing 2 songs with Mary equals sell out yet He also did 2 songs with Joe that had no commercial appeal in 93. To me that is a sign of versatility...hence he's Puba the leader of Brand Nubians...we wanna see the leader branch out and do more then Jamar and Sadat. Puba does a song with Mary then does a song with Fat Joe = versatility.




You even brought up Brand New Heavies being an "exception" but didnt Puba also allign with them as well as have them on his 1st album? This too is included in Pubas versatility.







So yeah for me there was an anticipation for Pubas next album because the first was eh! and sometimes rappers do better that second go round like the fugees.




By 92 Preemo acknowledged enough to make Pubas voice the theme of their first single for their 3rd album.





By 1995 on the song Old School, Pac made Puba the part of the song you remembered. Wasnt no one dismissing the voice on the hook in 95...that shyt sounded fly

 

[Art Barr]

that bboy/backpacker thing u talking sounds nice but I specifically remember right after that 360 video Tommy Hil became the in thing in an era were Polo and Karl Kani were king , Boss and Guess were popping and Cross colors were fading out. From were I'm stnding that would qualify as being well recieved by the culture. thats 92 going into 93 to the point where when looking at the Tommy Hil era theres no way u cant look back and not see Pubas influence.


Or maybe u talking straight music...U say Puba doing 2 songs with Mary equals sell out yet He also did 2 songs with Joe that had no commercial appeal in 93. To me that is a sign of versatility...hence he's Puba the leader of Brand Nubians...we wanna see the leader branch out and do more then Jamar and Sadat. Puba does a song with Mary then does a song with Fat Joe = versatility.




You even brought up Brand New Heavies being an "exception" but didnt Puba also allign with them as well as have them on his 1st album? This too is included in Pubas versatility.







So yeah for me there was an anticipation for Pubas next album because the first was eh! and sometimes rappers do better that second go round like the fugees.




By 92 Preemo acknowledged enough to make Pubas voice the theme of their first single for their 3rd album.





By 1995 on the song Old School, Pac made Puba the part of the song you remembered. Wasnt no one dismissing the voice on the hook in 95...that shyt sounded fly

Like I said puba's draw was done for by 1994 as this completely credible cultural thing.
I am not raggin on these guys out the blue or making it up.

It why I said earlier. 1993, would have been a better year to discuss as the style wars was in full swing. Plus skill wise all the new school way of thought artist were in the market place. Plus, the sonic landscape was solidfied and not changing till the next year. Which was brought on by the boombap by krs.
Also, you are forgetting back then ....there was no pass system given out for fakin jax.
Also I know this to be true because I even said how it played out in az's rnb single of sugar hill and paying it forward to miss Jones.
who really created the genre in that era that Mary is credited for. Yet alternatively had no MCA way based label.
or uptown to keep her from being a dead draw. The reason why brand Nubian had to reform and try to culturally rejuvenate their draw is the whole collective was seen as falling off or in puba case for selling outamd being dtm before dtm became an acronym.

The album 2000, in that era was basically the precursor to grown up what would become MCA way based jiggy or stylistic club music. As puba in essence was as connected to MCA as possible from just lyte. Whom also was ushered out the marketplcr for change of direction and an obvious change or degradation in skill. 2000 the album for that time and still is not really highly regarded publically.
yet credited in dark horse arenas for its almost eery commercially jiggy based direction.
Puba hurt himself severely culturally from his extension in content, direction, scope, endorsement and collaborations.


I wish puba would have been viewed as keeping it true then but he just was not.
Puba was the solo artist get fresh guy. We credit him singlehandidly for the impact of girbaud and Tommy. Yet by 1994, girbaud was not a obscure followed trend. It became the trend in the mainstream as part of the dress up toy uniform. That eventually by 1995, ND 1996 had succumbed to oversaturation from outside the culture.

Which is why when the boom of Leo Burnett in 1996, included polo as the brand and Tommy was a dead draw.

Wish it was different but that is culturally how it was.

94, was a year the technical revolution was set in and in that puba lost his luster.

If puba was still that guy. Then why did brand Nubian with out him have a higher drawing cultural draw and platform. Plus, puba had to reunite with the collective right after that. As the technical revolution set in and puba should have been a staple guy but he was not.


Art Barr

 

[smokeurobinson]

We credit him singlehandidly for the impact of girbaud and Tommy. Yet by 1994, girbaud was not a obscure followed trend. It became the trend in the mainstream as part of the dress up toy uniform. That eventually by 1995, ND 1996 had succumbed to oversaturation from outside the culture.

If puba was still that guy. Then why did brand Nubian with out him have a higher drawing cultural draw and platform. Plus, puba had to reunite with the collective right after that. As the technical revolution set in and puba should have been a staple guy but he was not.


Art Barr

LOL .That 3rd Brand Nubian album didn't really do anything in 94. Dudes was fuking with "holding on" for the most part but "I like it" was bigger. Go look at the youtube numbers. Those Youtube numbers tell the truth. 'I like It' was bigger then 'Word Is Bond' and 'Holding On.' That 95 Puba song is bigger then anything Brand Nubians dropped from their 3rd album.


Now I dare you to say Sadat X in 96 made more noise solo then Puba with the commercial failure 2000. I dare you





also..Puba reunited because a bunch of rap groups did that in the aftermath of Pac and Biggies death. It was 4 groups that united for that cause. Nice and Smooth..EPMD...Brand Nubians..Pete Rock N CL Smooth. In 97 all 4 did this thing were they squashed their issues and united to do music again.

 

[Art Barr]

you talking as though tommy had this cultural love.
that made puba bullet proof from the whole tommy rumor mill era.
plus, back then when people thought you sold out and stop playing games with you as far as a draw.
puba was not immune to this, and he felt the same fall off predating diamond going jiggy that diamond d had from the much later and subsequent production run of the fugees.
that by the time the boom of dem dare meets lo life misappropiation of brands came around.
tommy was damn near a dead brand like walker wear, kani, and cross colors as far as relevency in the culture.
they became main stream staples with people playing dress up, but culturally in hiphop tommy and puba was done.
i know so because all the vintage lo wear that is not snow beach dropped in the mid's before 1994.
the olympic runs, nasa jackets, lo bear sweater era all predated 1994 by more than a few years and the olympic run was before the 1996 olympics in 1992.

now, past that time as far as sadat.
he was having something to do an the natural trickle down then was to give a group member a charity solo and sadat did but it was not stellar or a skill exhibition showcase in the slightest. as sadat is huff as hell bar to bar.
all those groups have social issues and you know damn well sadat x is never getting props in a skill discussion from me.


art barr

 

[Wacky D]

Hip Hop indeed moved fast, but a lot of the music that is considered classic again didn't have people running around saying a lot of the albums that are now classics as classics.

Pac was five albums in before he died. He had two good albums, a dope compilation album, a definitive album, and another album that was his biggest album (and widely considered his best) before he died. He did all this by age 25, so your logic really doesn't apply to Pac. Who knows what would've been had he lived. He may have gone on and still be dropping relevant music today or he might've fallen off with his very next release. Nobody knows. It's speculation.

youre missing his point.

what hes saying is, rappers with a catalog & run like 2pac circa '91-94, typically didn't make it to a 4th release.

hes saying the celebrity that came with pac's controversies & acting, extended his rap career, giving him more time to ramp up and make MATW, AEOM. 7 day theory.

And as for Pac's influence in 1994:

I'm like Pac, I'm making mail but I still live the thug life--- Scarface, "The White Sheet"

^^^ This like right after Thug Life dropped. It was more than just album, it became something that was cultural and it was something that was associated with Pac.

thats just a line, not an influence.

and on top of that, its moreso scarface shouting his friend out.

nikkas love spitting their opinion as if it's FACT.
Cube was viewed as falling off when he had CHECK YOURSELF,IT WAS A GOOD DAY and WICKED out?
Also went plat in 2 months.
Who viewed him as falling off?
nikkas just be making shyt up

the predator was a few steps down from his previous albums.

and also not on par with the top-tier albums of the time.

the predator being his most successful elbum is the reason why ice cube's legacy is so underrated actually.

So what nas did on illmatic,placed him above LL's legacy,heavy's legacy? And others?
What was new about illmatic or nas as an mc in general?

ehh

I think those of us ranking Nas ahead of them in '94 are talking real-time. not all-time.

to this day, I still don't rank Nas as high as ll cool j on an all-time list.
he ranks way higher than LL on a '94 real-time list tho.

Bone is one of my two favorite hiphop groups. HOWEVER no member of bone (in 1994) proved themselves to be better or equal pac or snoop on CREEPIN ON AH COME UP,alone.

Also this insertion was pointless and only used to hate even further.

he said bar-for-bar, they were better than pac & snoop, and that they were bigger draws.

krayzie & bizzy were clearly better lyricists than pac & snoop from day one breh. it doesn't take a full LP release to realize that.

and yea, they were WAY BIGGER draws than 2pac.
snoop is arguable. it depends on how you look at it. they had similar success to snoop, based on just two songs without a huge machine push and with barely any public appearances, as opposed to snoop who had over 2 years of endless hype, coupled with endless amounts of controversty - including a murder trial.

 

[JustCKing]

youre missing his point.

what hes saying is, rappers with a catalog & run like 2pac circa '91-94, typically didn't make it to a 4th release.

hes saying the celebrity that came with pac's controversies & acting, extended his rap career, giving him more time to ramp up and make MATW, AEOM. 7 day theory.







thats just a line, not an influence.

and on top of that, its moreso scarface shouting his friend out.





the predator was a few steps down from his previous albums.

and also not on par with the top-tier albums of the time.

the predator being his most successful elbum is the reason why ice cube's legacy is so underrated actually.





ehh

I think those of us ranking Nas ahead of them in '94 are talking real-time. not all-time.

to this day, I still don't rank Nas as high as ll cool j on an all-time list.
he ranks way higher than LL on a '94 real-time list tho.





he said bar-for-bar, they were better than pac & snoop, and that they were bigger draws.

krayzie & bizzy were clearly better lyricists than pac & snoop from day one breh. it doesn't take a full LP release to realize that.

and yea, they were WAY BIGGER draws than 2pac.
snoop is arguable. it depends on how you look at it. they had similar success to snoop, based on just two songs without a huge machine push and with barely any public appearances, as opposed to snoop who had over 2 years of endless hype, coupled with endless amounts of controversty - including a murder trial.

I'm not missing the point.

Pac's acting and controversy didn't give him anymore leverage than it gave Cube. Pac's starring in movies didn't make the difference between pre- MATW Pac, MATW Pac, and post MATW Pac.

Saying rappers didn't make it to a 4th release is asinine especially sonce Pac saw a 4th release before reaching age 25.

And regardless of Face and pac being friends, it wasn't a shout out. Thug Life is something that people connected with Pac. That was the point and it isn't the only example of pac's impact being pointed out here.

1994 Nas in real time didn't have the impact that he had years later. Illmatic wasn't some instant game changer. It took years before it caught on and when it did click, a lot of people faked it like they were day ones knowing their introduction to Nas was AFTER he blew with IWW.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

1.the predator was a few steps down from his previous albums.

2.and also not on par with the top-tier albums of the time.

3.the predator being his most successful elbum is the reason why ice cube's legacy is so underrated actually.





ehh

I think those of us ranking Nas ahead of them in '94 are talking real-time. not all-time.

to this day, I still don't rank Nas as high as ll cool j on an all-time list.
4.he ranks way higher than LL on a '94 real-time list tho.





5.he said bar-for-bar, they were better than pac & snoop, and that they were bigger draws.

6.krayzie & bizzy were clearly better lyricists than pac & snoop from day one breh. it doesn't take a full LP release to realize that.

7.and yea, they were WAY BIGGER draws than 2pac.
8.snoop is arguable. it depends on how you look at it. 9.they had similar success to snoop, based on just two songs without a huge machine push and 10.with barely any public appearances, as opposed to snoop who had over 2 years of endless hype, coupled with endless amounts of controversty - including a murder trial.

1.You can have that opinion. Rather it was a step or two down is subjective. It had a flawless singles run,was a high quality album and considered a classic in real time,not talked up over time via propaganda. Being that you were 7/8 and i was 12/13 back then,combined with the fact that i remember it vivdly,i'll trust my own assessment .

2.What are the top tier albums of 1992 that you would put above it and based off what reasons?

3.How did the success of the predator hurt cube's legacy?
Like i said,dope album and flawless singles run

4.This isnt a 1994 real time list though.

5.That's his opinion,one that he's entitled to,that i dont agree with. My problem,is that he acts as if this was a consensus opinion in 1994,which is just a lie. This was not the talk AT ALL. Your'e 5/6 years younger than me and i think me and dude about the same age. I'll charge your viewpoint to ignorance,but @Art Barr aint getting off so easy. Do your research @Wacky D before you start taking all that E-cock in the mizzzouth. This dude previously said that bone wasnt recognized as dope till 1995.Now he's acting like they were getting major props in 1994 and known as great. I took those quotes and placed them in this thread (go look nikka). He never addressed his inconsistent bullshyt and you in here backing him up lmao.

6.Please post some of those lyrics that back up this statement you made. Lyrics that totally eclipse everything Snoop and Pac did from their inception through 1994.

So they need to outshine
The Chronic
Doggystyle
Murder was the case (not every song obviously)
Above the Rim (not every song obviously)
2pacalypse now
S4MN
Thuglife

Good luck nikka.

7.Bizzy nor Krayzie were bigger than pac in 1994.
In case you skimmed through,dude said bizzy and Krayzie were bigger than pac and snoop,(with heavy emphasis on bizzy) Claiming people wanted to be bizzy,devante etc in 1994.

Through 1994 Pac had 3 albums out including thuglife.
Plus starred in Juice,Poetic Justice with Janet Jackson,Above the Rim.
Plus all his features and controversy.
(Remember this is them as individuals,not the group as a whole vs Pac)

8.Snoop had Deep Cover, the Chronic appearances,Doggystyle
Murder was the case which was the movie and SDTK headed by him. Plus above the rim appearances
plus his own controversy.
In no form shape or fashion were they bigger than or big as Snoop in 1994. Not even the group as a whole was on snoop's level.

9.No they did not. They sold 2 mil through 1994. Snoop sold 4 mil of his own album by the end of 1994. .

10.You're just helping my point. Snoop and Pac were bigger than the individual bone members,quite easily

 

[Wacky D]

I'm not missing the point.

Pac's acting and controversy didn't give him anymore leverage than it gave Cube. Pac's starring in movies didn't make the difference between pre- MATW Pac, MATW Pac, and post MATW Pac.

Saying rappers didn't make it to a 4th release is asinine especially sonce Pac saw a 4th release before reaching age 25.

And regardless of Face and pac being friends, it wasn't a shout out. Thug Life is something that people connected with Pac. That was the point and it isn't the only example of pac's impact being pointed out here.

1994 Nas in real time didn't have the impact that he had years later. Illmatic wasn't some instant game changer. It took years before it caught on and when it did click, a lot of people faked it like they were day ones knowing their introduction to Nas was AFTER he blew with IWW.

yes you are indeed missing the point. youre actually further from the point that I thought.

and youre applying 2018 logic to 1994. talembout "pac saw a 4th release before reaching age 25".
back then, 25 was relatively old for a rapper breh.

why are you bringing ice cube into this?? ice cube didn't rely on acting & controversy initially. his first 4 releases from SOC to DC were all classics. another comment of yours that proves you really didn't get what he was saying.

culturally, Nas was at his peak in '94-95. take those years away from him, and hes not even in my top 20. again, yall are confusing hip-hop heads with radioheads. of course radioheads didn't know Nas until the song with lauryn. they don't hold any weight in this discussion tho.

 

[JustCKing]

yes you are indeed missing the point. youre actually further from the point that I thought.

and youre applying 2018 logic to 1994. talembout "pac saw a 4th release before reaching age 25".
back then, 25 was relatively old for a rapper breh.

why are you bringing ice cube into this?? ice cube didn't rely on acting & controversy initially. his first 4 releases from SOC to DC were all classics. another comment of yours that proves you really didn't get what he was saying.

culturally, Nas was at his peak in '94-95. take those years away from him, and hes not even in my top 20. again, yall are confusing hip-hop heads with radioheads. of course radioheads didn't know Nas until the song with lauryn. they don't hold any weight in this discussion tho.

How are you speaking for someone and then continuing to argue like you know exactly what he's talking about?

Now you're regurgitating an argument that really doesn't apply here. He mentioned Pac's age first and speculated that he would not have made it to a third album.

Cube and Pacs careers are similar. Both were rappers/actors who had a knack for incorporating storytelling and political commentary into their music. Both were considered controversial and outspoken.

You aren't dude, so I don't know why you're in here attempting to explain his perspective.

Who cares where Nas lands in your top 20. Nas was not moving the culture in '94 especially on the level of a Snoop or Pac. This has nothing to do with radio heads. Illmatic is the slept on gem that has grown in status as Nas gained popularity.