what would a top 5 list in 1994 look like?

[Art Barr]

One more thing I wanted to address. How exactly was being 25 veing relatively ild for a rapper? Biggie was 22 when he dripped his debut in 1994. A lot of the rappers discussed here were at or near Pac's age, but @Wacky D is saying 25 was relatively old.

dawg,...

how old were kane, bdk and krs when they debuted and you will find your answer.

you are completely exposing you don't know with this shyt.

the whole you old as a rapper thing was real back then.
the idea of even trying to not finish school or not go to colllege to be a rapper was seen as completely taboo back then.
which is why nas was so profound in 94, because he was in the same age window and suffering from the effects of what was occurring in america in the school system. he just so happened to have this ability and skill that kept him from ruin.
yet, back then...at 19, you had to be successfully and culturally commended.

the whole be old and more than twenty trying to rhyme was not at all a thing back then.
this bullshti they got now where everyone thinks they can rhyme and are cultural is a lie.
back then, you would be hard pressed to find anyone generally into hiphop culture at all.

that is why this thread was made to show whom as cerebrally and cognitive about the culture at this time.
as it was the culture of hiphop.
not this bullshyt they have now,..where everyone in general is playing dress up and has no idea wtf they even talembout as far as hiphop culture is concerned.




art barr

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

everything changed after nas was released.


art barr

Like what. What did Nas change?

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

nobody gave a f*ck about thug life until 2pac died, and they started yelling it in retrospect.

hence the reason why 2pac was on the box crying about bone.





​

​

Ignorant lil kids always talking like they know. This is not true at all.

 

[JustCKing]

dawg,...

how old were kane, bdk and krs when they debuted and you will find your answer.

you are completely exposing you don't know with this shyt.

the whole you old as a rapper thing was real back then.
the idea of even trying to not finish school or not go to colllege to be a rapper was seen as completely taboo back then.
which is why nas was so profound in 94, because he was in the same age window and suffering from the effects of what was occurring in america in the school system. he just so happened to have this ability and skill that kept him from ruin.
yet, back then...at 19, you had to be successfully and culturally commended.

the whole be old and more than twenty trying to rhyme was not at all a thing back then.
this bullshti they got now where everyone thinks they can rhyme and are cultural is a lie.
back then, you would be hard pressed to find anyone generally into hiphop culture at all.

that is why this thread was made to show whom as cerebrally and cognitive about the culture at this time.
as it was the culture of hiphop.
not this bullshyt they have now,..where everyone in general is playing dress up and has no idea wtf they even talembout as far as hiphop culture is concerned.




art barr

BDK, Kane, and KRS debuted in the 80's. We are talking about 1994. Biggie was like 22 when Ready To Die dropped. Warren G was like 23-24 when he dropped his debut. Members of Wu were around the same age or older. So in 94 you definitely weren't considered old at 25. Yeah, Kane, KRS, BDK would have been considered old, but not because of age. They had like 4-6 albums out by '94 and it was a whole new regime of MC's who were just coming out.

The person I was responding to was talking about how 2Pac being 25 was relatively old for a rapper in 1994.

 

[JustCKing]

that was an exposal, right there for @JustCKing.

people in this thread talking like they were apart of the culture of hiphop in 94.
when we know better from their content they were not a part of the culture in 94.
in 96, is when commercial audiophiles and standard regular consumers became aware of what hiphop was.
which was from the marketing boom from leo burnett enterprising and ushering what would become and titled, urban.




you talking like ghettto and hiphop were similar back then and they were not at all.
they were completely juxtaposed from one another completely.
hiphop still had its culture in 94, and was not in the current post recession amalgamated everyone is the same shyt they try to pull off in the current age. everyone back then had their own schtick and they did not mingle at all socially in that era at all.
there was no mixing at all in a widespread cultural or social arena at all.
back then ghetto and hood was on perculator and chiffon shirt rnb with at best a pair of jodeci boots and just got into girbaud in 1993.
girbaud had just became a regular nikka mainstay at this point and was slowly being filtered out at this exact time.
tommy was on death door step back then culturally from the rumor. which sprung up exactly in late 93.
if puba was still a culture resounding draw. then he would have been a staple between mary's sales cycle on 411 and would have never cooled and been reamplified during the az sugar hill run which was a pay it forward culture draw for miss jones. who got lost in the whole rnb fusion being COMPLETELY TABOO. then her getting her comeuppance and subsequent back pay fter mary on 411.
on the next my life album puba was a dead draw on 2000 culturally and in the mainstream.
so how could he still be a relevent draw and he not get his draw rejuvenated by mary twice.

by his first lackluster solo puba was done and he was never rejuvenated as a draw.
if he was still a draw. why did he not make another large drawing envelope when the draw for rnb fusion was latching onto other labels and the mainstream.
puba was nowhere in the groove theory era as a cultural draw.
puba was nowhere as a draw in the az era.
puba was not a drawing component to 411, because he was a dead draw from trying to use mary to oversaturate and commercialize his failing draw on his solo.

also, i know your timeline is flawed from this detail about buckshot formerly buckshot shawty in 1994 as well.
buck shot ditched the shawty and the knapsack after who got the props and its longer sales cycle and delay.
which was from mid 92-mid93.
between the album release debut of black moon and the subsequent video to how many emcees.

it is a clear distinct direction change and maturity and buck shot was also one of the first completely articulate interviews and mainstays in media at that point.

it is a clear distinction between:
buck shot shawty




to this buckshot.






who got props buck shot and how many emcees, the subsequent remixes and the change in maturity with the shawty name drop.
plus, the name drop is a central content point on the full length.
where who got the props is the only call back because of its draw on the track listing to the full length.

the reason why i said 93, would be a better year was because all the previous ideals from the styles war era were completely changed by 94, and the coming of nas in the culture, SPECIFICALLY.

everything changed after nas was released.
trying to say it was not all changed and was not at that point in 94 a completely focused culture thing with no flodging would not be indicative of the truth.

in 94, shyt was as concrete culturally with no flodging as possible at the time.

in 93, you still had the beginning funk of the prison industrial economy still there.
trying to dictate the rap game via sales, content and drive the direction of the culture away from its anti gang based and noncommercialism new school way of thought beginnings, changes and stances.


art barr

There is no exposal because I am questioning what shifts culturally did Illmatic cause in 1994. I don't think anyone would say it wasn't a game changer, but to say it immediately had that effect isn't factual. My point is, you can take an album like Doggystyle or The Chronic and the effects were seen, felt, and heard. There was an immediate shift in style, sound, and even look and attitude after those albums dropped. It was emulated. Ready To Die is another one.

 

[Art Barr]

BDK, Kane, and KRS debuted in the 80's. We are talking about 1994. Biggie was like 22 when Ready To Die dropped. Warren G was like 23-24 when he dropped his debut. Members of Wu were around the same age or older. So in 94 you definitely weren't considered old at 25. Yeah, Kane, KRS, BDK would have been considered old, but not because of age. They had like 4-6 albums out by '94 and it was a whole new regime of MC's who were just coming out.

The person I was responding to was talking about how 2Pac being 25 was relatively old for a rapper in 1994.

dawg, big was out on white label with dreams predating his debut by two and a half years.,
see you don't know.
so he was also on and signed in that teenage window.
back then, you were supposed to be focused on being an actualized adult at 18, and what you were exactly going to do and be.
this whole post recession babyboomer fukked it all up and no one can be anything re-imagining has affected you.
back then, you were required to be a fukk'n adult at 18 and by nineteen doing exactly what a responsible adult would be doing professionally or trying to finish schooling to be an accredited adult professional

not to mention, early on,....
big was just caught in admin coup of mca hopefuls and puff admin to becoming what would become bad boy.
wu tang was a complete game changer in the fact they created the complete admin windfall to enable rap to become more from the creator.
yet, they were complete exceptions to the rule and you are not speaking in general.
in general rap was known as something you were completely successful at before you were of age to be in college.

it is a reason why now people look at people to this day trying to rap in disdain at an age above twenty.
maybe you think it is accepted but still trying to be a rapper professionally past the age of nineteen is still kinda taboo.
the only people you see drawing in rap like that have manipulated the game after wu tang amalgamated, changed, readministered the rap game.

which still in that was done so a young bull like rza and gza in their earlier incarnation was never taken advantage of again in basic premise.
wu tang was made to create the admin change for younger artist and to repair the damage admin wise done to rza and gza in their original signings and characters on a major.


art barr

 

[Art Barr]

There is no exposal because I am questioning what shifts culturally did Illmatic cause in 1994. I don't think anyone would say it wasn't a game changer, but to say it immediately had that effect isn't factual. My point is, you can take an album like Doggystyle or The Chronic and the effects were seen, felt, and heard. There was an immediate shift in style, sound, and even look and attitude after those albums dropped. It was emulated. Ready To Die is another one.

culturally, doggy style and chronic were not culturally used to drive the culture of hiphop at all.
they were completely juxtaposed as once again,...hiphop was antigang.
plus, the exposal of cube, not being fully a writer, flodging, biting and stealing occurred.
we can point to him being called for using das efx on the remix just for starters for that exact time as well.

which you keep ignoring.
plus, dr dre was a dead draw, CULTURALLY, in hiphop.
from his previous connection to ruthless, and you are not talking culturally when you mention any gangsta rapper.
as they were ostracized from faking jax at this time.

you talking from an mtv misappropriates the anniversary of hiphop in 2001-2004 ideal mixed with post recession ideals and not culturally what the ideal was exactly in hiphop culture.


you talking like some mtv affected guy and not culturally what occurred in 1994.

snoop, warren g, pac, none of those dudes were credited as these profound emcees.
they were just gangsta rappers who wanted cultural acceptance, and were viewed as culturally obtruse and completely and utterly taboo in the culture of actual, hiphop.

ghetto and hiphop were two separate things back then...
this whole post prison industrial idea of everyone had to be from the projects, buss their gun and all that shyt is amalgamated from the prison industrial economy and mtv. that is not and was not indicative at all of hiphop culture.
nikkaz talking like this shyt was accepted in the culture back then and it was not.

it was a reason pac was with the live squad who were still based in ny and had the content he had.
he knew his direction as a gangsta rapper flirted the line culturally.
which is why he got caught up because the company he was keeping was not even needed in the culture of hiphop and big told him that.
of which he sensationalized from his own bullshyt.
big in 1994 was a styles war era delay and content based artist who should have been released along with jeru, and big L in 1993.

those three artist had horrific delays and launched well and away after their change in sonic landscape as well.

i think people are confusing the fact the mca way was there for big and don't know the whole half on this culturally.


art barr

 

[JustCKing]

dawg, big was out on white label with dreams predating his debut by two and a half years.,
see you don't know.
so he was also on and signed in that teenage window.
back then, you were supposed to be focused on being an actualized adult at 18, and what you were exactly going to do and be.
this whole post recession babyboomer fukked it all up and no one can be anything re-imagining has affected you.
back then, you were required to be a fukk'n adult at 18 and by nineteen doing exactly what a responsible adult would be doing professionally or trying to finish schooling to be an accredited adult professional

not to mention, early on,....
big was just caught in admin coup of mca hopefuls and puff admin to becoming what would become bad boy.
wu tang was a complete game changer in the fact they created the complete admin windfall to enable rap to become more from the creator.
yet, they were complete exceptions to the rule and you are not speaking in general.
in general rap was known as something you were completely successful at before you were of age to be in college.

it is a reason why now people look at people to this day trying to rap in disdain at an age above twenty.
maybe you think it is accepted but still trying to be a rapper professionally past the age of nineteen is still kinda taboo.
the only people you see drawing in rap like that have manipulated the game after wu tang amalgamated, changed, readministered the rap game.

which still in that was done so a young bull like rza and gza in their earlier incarnation was never taken advantage of again in basic premise.
wu tang was made to create the admin change for younger artist and to repair the damage admin wise done to rza and gza in their original signings and characters on a major.


art barr

Big had remixes with Mary and songs with Jodeci in addition to "Party & BS" before Ready to Die. That's not the point. Nobody looked at him as old by the time Ready To Die dropped despite him being 22 years old.

Unless you're making this about aspiring rappers (which is null and void since the original argument was made against Pac).

I've already spoken nimerous times on here about how 90's MC's at 18-20 had much more wisdom to offer musically and lyrically than an 18-20 year old today.

 

[JustCKing]

culturally, doggy style and chronic were not culturally used to drive the culture of hiphop at all.
they were completely juxtaposed as once again,...hiphop was antigang.
plus, the exposal of cube, not being fully a writer, flodging, biting and stealing occurred.
we can point to him being called for using das efx on the remix just for starters for that exact time as well.

which you keep ignoring.
plus, dr dre was a dead draw, CULTURALLY, in hiphop.
from his previous connection to ruthless, and you are not talking culturally when you mention any gangsta rapper.
as they were ostracized from faking jax at this time.

you talking from an mtv misappropriates the anniversary of hiphop in 2001-2004 ideal mixed with post recession ideals and not culturally what the ideal was exactly in hiphop culture.


you talking like some mtv affected guy and not culturally what occurred in 1994.

snoop, warren g, pac, none of those dudes were credited as these profound emcees.
they were just gangsta rappers who wanted cultural acceptance, and were viewed as culturally obtruse and completely and utterly taboo in the culture of actual, hiphop.

ghetto and hiphop were two separate things back then...
this whole post prison industrial idea of everyone had to be from the projects, buss their gun and all that shyt is amalgamated from the prison industrial economy and mtv. that is not and was not indicative at all of hiphop culture.
nikkaz talking like this shyt was accepted in the culture back then and it was not.

it was a reason pac was with the live squad who were still based in ny and had the content he had.
he knew his direction as a gangsta rapper flirted the line culturally.
which is why he got caught up because the company he was keeping was not even needed in the culture of hiphop and big told him that.
of which he sensationalized from his own bullshyt.
big in 1994 was a styles war era delay and content based artist who should have been released along with jeru, and big L in 1993.

those three artist had horrific delays and launched well and away after their change in sonic landscape as well.

i think people are confusing the fact the mca way was there for big and don't know the whole half on this culturally.


art barr

I did not care anout an MTV or a music program when those albums dropped. I didn't even discover Doggystyle via the media or radio for that matter. My brother had the tape. I ain't know it was in the deck. I pressed play on it, liked what I heard and the rest was history. In regard to MTV, my cousin had the VMA's on and Snoop was performing "Murder Was the Case", so of course I tuned in.

 

[Art Barr]

I did not care anout an MTV or a music program when those albums dropped. I didn't even discover Doggystyle via the media or radio for that matter. My brother had the tape. I ain't know it was in the deck. I pressed play on it, liked what I heard and the rest was history. In regard to MTV, my cousin had the VMA's on and Snoop was performing "Murder Was the Case", so of course I tuned in.

So nikka,...
You did not even buy your own music and you trying to talk.
shyt your brother need an account from your posting cause it is obvious CULTURALLY YOU HAVE NO IDEA WTF YOU ARE TALEMBOUT AT ALL.


Art Barr

 

[Art Barr]

Big had remixes with Mary and songs with Jodeci in addition to "Party & BS" before Ready to Die. That's not the point. Nobody looked at him as old by the time Ready To Die dropped despite him being 22 years old.

Unless you're making this about aspiring rappers (which is null and void since the original argument was made against Pac).

I've already spoken nimerous times on here about how 90's MC's at 18-20 had much more wisdom to offer musically and lyrically than an 18-20 year old today.

You entire posting here shows you really don't understand the trend of age and the dynamic you speak on from a cultural base and standpoint.
If you knew this and knew of big back then.
Then why initially did you say big dropped at rtd and noe you double back talembout his material preparty and bullshyt.

Yet you give no name of the project as well.

You flodge'n breh,...stop.

Tired of nikkaz trying to play the role in this culture.
You not fooling no real bboy.


Art Barr

 

[JustCKing]

You entire posting here shows you really don't understand the trend of age and the dynamic you speak on from a cultural base and standpoint.
If you knew this and knew of big back then.
Then why initially did you say big dropped at rtd and noe you double back talembout his material preparty and bullshyt.

Yet you give no name of the project as well.

You flodge'n breh,...stop.

Tired of nikkaz trying to play the role in this culture.
You not fooling no real bboy.


Art Barr

Because nobody who was aware of how old Biggie was cared about his age. When he dropped RTD, his first full length, he was 22. Nobody looked at him as old.Sure, people who are still trying to get in the game in their 20's are frowned upon. That wasn't the discussion. The discussion was about rappers in the mid 90s being looked at as old by 25 and you know that wasn't the case. What you're attempting to argue here is totally off the mark.

 

[JustCKing]

So nikka,...
You did not even buy your own music and you trying to talk.
shyt your brother need an account from your posting cause it is obvious CULTURALLY YOU HAVE NO IDEA WTF YOU ARE TALEMBOUT AT ALL.


Art Barr

You have no idea what you're talking about. I DISCOVERED Snoop's debut via my brothwr leaving the tape in the deck. Nowherw in that post does it ever imply that I didn't buy the album.

 

[Controversy]

In no particular order:

Snoop
BIG
Pac
Meth
Nas

 

[smokeurobinson]

that was an exposal, right there for @JustCKing.

people in this thread talking like they were apart of the culture of hiphop in 94.
when we know better from their content they were not a part of the culture in 94.
in 96, is when commercial audiophiles and standard regular consumers became aware of what hiphop in the new school way of thought was.

which was from the marketing boom from leo burnett enterprising and ushering what would become and titled, urban.




you talking like ghettto and hiphop were similar back then and they were not at all.
they were completely juxtaposed from one another completely.
hiphop still had its culture in 94, and was not in the current post recession amalgamated everyone is the same shyt they try to pull off in the current age. everyone back then had their own schtick and they did not mingle at all socially in that era at all.
there was no mixing at all in a widespread cultural or social arena at all.
back then ghetto and hood was on perculator and chiffon shirt rnb with at best a pair of jodeci boots and just got into girbaud in 1993.
girbaud had just became a regular nikka mainstay at this point and was slowly being filtered out at this exact time.
tommy was on death door step back then culturally from the rumor. which sprung up exactly in late 93.
if puba was still a culture resounding draw. then he would have been a staple between mary's sales cycle on 411 and would have never cooled and been reamplified during the az sugar hill run which was a pay it forward culture draw for miss jones. who got lost in the whole rnb fusion being COMPLETELY TABOO. then her getting her comeuppance and subsequent back pay fter mary on 411.
on the next my life album puba was a dead draw on 2000 culturally and in the mainstream.
so how could he still be a relevent draw and he not get his draw rejuvenated by mary twice.

by his first lackluster solo puba was done and he was never rejuvenated as a draw.
if he was still a draw. why did he not make another large drawing envelope when the draw for rnb fusion was latching onto other labels and the mainstream.
puba was nowhere in the groove theory era as a cultural draw.
puba was nowhere as a draw in the az era.
puba was not a drawing component to 411, because he was a dead draw from trying to use mary to oversaturate and commercialize his failing draw on his solo.

also, i know your timeline is flawed from this detail about buckshot formerly buckshot shawty in 1994 as well.
buck shot ditched the shawty and the knapsack after who got the props and its longer sales cycle and delay.
which was from mid 92-mid93.
between the album release debut of black moon and the subsequent video to how many emcees.

it is a clear distinct direction change and maturity and buck shot was also one of the first completely articulate interviews and mainstays in media at that point.

it is a clear distinction between:
buck shot shawty




to this buckshot.






who got props buck shot and how many emcees, the subsequent remixes and the change in maturity with the shawty name drop.
plus, the name drop is a central content point on the full length.
where who got the props is the only call back because of its draw on the track listing to the full length.

the reason why i said 93, would be a better year was because all the previous ideals from the styles war era were completely changed by 94, and the coming of nas in the culture, SPECIFICALLY.

everything changed after nas was released.
trying to say it was not all changed and was not at that point in 94 a completely focused culture thing with no flodging would not be indicative of the truth.

in 94, shyt was as concrete culturally with no flodging as possible at the time.

in 93, you still had the beginning funk of the prison industrial economy still there.
trying to dictate the rap game via sales, content and drive the direction of the culture away from its anti gang based and noncommercialism new school way of thought beginnings, changes and stances.


art barr

so u saying there was a separation between "culture" and "the streets" in 94? I guess I didnt get that memo and thats why Puba was still in my top 5 by 94.




My dude....U been going on and on about why Puba shouldnt be listed by 94 and IU've explained to why I still had him on my list. Everything U have said about Puba could also be said about Kane who I had in my top 10 by 94. Did it ever occur to you that maybe I just really like Puba by 94?




Also......360 came out before Who Got The Props the song and video.