what would a top 5 list in 1994 look like?

[Wacky D]

And regardless of Face and pac being friends, it wasn't a shout out. Thug Life is something that people connected with Pac. That was the point and it isn't the only example of pac's impact being pointed out here.

stop relying on industry cosigns. scarface was his bul.

nobody gave a f*ck about thug life until 2pac died, and they started yelling it in retrospect.

hence the reason why 2pac was on the box crying about bone.

How are you speaking for someone and then continuing to argue like you know exactly what he's talking about?

Now you're regurgitating an argument that really doesn't apply here. He mentioned Pac's age first and speculated that he would not have made it to a third album.

Cube and Pacs careers are similar. Both were rappers/actors who had a knack for incorporating storytelling and political commentary into their music. Both were considered controversial and outspoken.

You aren't dude, so I don't know why you're in here attempting to explain his perspective.

Who cares where Nas lands in your top 20. Nas was not moving the culture in '94 especially on the level of a Snoop or Pac. This has nothing to do with radio heads. Illmatic is the slept on gem that has grown in status as Nas gained popularity.

because I can read, and hes just reiterating things that we've already said earlier in the thread.

you can tag him back in for further explanation. I think he might've fell back to avoid the headaches you tend to give people.

I'm not gonna go in circles about Nas. I really don't even like that niqqa, so you can believe what you want. youre wrong tho.
illmatic was slept-on COMMERCIALLY. not culturally.
​

1.You can have that opinion. Rather it was a step or two down is subjective. It had a flawless singles run,was a high quality album and considered a classic in real time,not talked up over time via propaganda. Being that you were 7/8 and i was 12/13 back then,combined with the fact that i remember it vivdly,i'll trust my own assessment .

2.What are the top tier albums of 1992 that you would put above it and based off what reasons?

3.How did the success of the predator hurt cube's legacy?
Like i said,dope album and flawless singles run

4.This isnt a 1994 real time list though.

5.That's his opinion,one that he's entitled to,that i dont agree with. My problem,is that he acts as if this was a consensus opinion in 1994,which is just a lie. This was not the talk AT ALL. Your'e 5/6 years younger than me and i think me and dude about the same age. I'll charge your viewpoint to ignorance,but @Art Barr aint getting off so easy. Do your research @Wacky D before you start taking all that E-cock in the mizzzouth. This dude previously said that bone wasnt recognized as dope till 1995.Now he's acting like they were getting major props in 1994 and known as great. I took those quotes and placed them in this thread (go look nikka). He never addressed his inconsistent bullshyt and you in here backing him up lmao.

6.Please post some of those lyrics that back up this statement you made. Lyrics that totally eclipse everything Snoop and Pac did from their inception through 1994.

So they need to outshine
The Chronic
Doggystyle
Murder was the case (not every song obviously)
Above the Rim (not every song obviously)
2pacalypse now
S4MN
Thuglife

Good luck nikka.

7.Bizzy nor Krayzie were bigger than pac in 1994.
In case you skimmed through,dude said bizzy and Krayzie were bigger than pac and snoop,(with heavy emphasis on bizzy) Claiming people wanted to be bizzy,devante etc in 1994.

Through 1994 Pac had 3 albums out including thuglife.
Plus starred in Juice,Poetic Justice with Janet Jackson,Above the Rim.
Plus all his features and controversy.
(Remember this is them as individuals,not the group as a whole vs Pac)

8.Snoop had Deep Cover, the Chronic appearances,Doggystyle
Murder was the case which was the movie and SDTK headed by him. Plus above the rim appearances
plus his own controversy.
In no form shape or fashion were they bigger than or big as Snoop in 1994. Not even the group as a whole was on snoop's level.

9.No they did not. They sold 2 mil through 1994. Snoop sold 4 mil of his own album by the end of 1994. .

10.You're just helping my point. Snoop and Pac were bigger than the individual bone members,quite easily

1.) here you go playing the age card. that's for corny people. just because youre older than somebody, it doesn't mean that youre more cognizant.
your embarrassing exhibition in this thread is proof positive of that.

if the album is a step down, youre gonna tape a step down, right along with it.


2.) so you try to dismiss me in part one. then turn around and try to get me to type an essay??

3.) because predator is the album that newer fans go to when they want to check out ice cube. and they usually stop there, assuming that's his best effort.
hence, the reason why hes rarely ever mentioned in the top 5s of people who didn't get into rap before the mid-90s or later.

4.) I don't think the OP himself knows the premise of this list.

5.) he cleared that '95 bone comment up already.

6.) pac & snoop didn't have bars like that. I'm not gonna sit up here and argue about pac & snoop lyrics. that's a kiddie conversation. but for some reason, youre the one that's adamant about brining up people's ages. you would've got laughed off of my 5th grade lunch table, trying to argue about pac & snoop's bars breh.

7.) nobody said bizzy or krayzie singularly were bigger than pac at any point. learn how to read.

8.) in lamen's terms, bone was an easier sell. they came out the gate doing the same numbers with far less than half the hype.
hence, the reason why he said bone thugs were the bigger draw.
like I said, bone & snoop is arguable, depending on how you look at it.

9.) I think the point was, their EP cycle didn't end in '94.
the same way snoop's album cycle began months prior to '94, which youre conveniently over-looking.

10.) bone were bigger rappers than 2pac. pac was a bigger name for things off-wax. dude was like 1 more popular movie & 1 more so-so album away from being seen as 'an actor that raps'.

I don't recall him saying bone was bigger than snoop yet. he was saying that they were bigger draws out the gate.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

1.You can have that opinion. Rather it was a step or two down is subjective. It had a flawless singles run,was a high quality album and considered a classic in real time,not talked up over time via propaganda. Being that you were 7/8 and i was 12/13 back then,combined with the fact that i remember it vivdly,i'll trust my own assessment .

2.What are the top tier albums of 1992 that you would put above it and based off what reasons?

3.How did the success of the predator hurt cube's legacy?
Like i said,dope album and flawless singles run

4.This isnt a 1994 real time list though.

5.That's his opinion,one that he's entitled to,that i dont agree with. My problem,is that he acts as if this was a consensus opinion in 1994,which is just a lie. This was not the talk AT ALL. Your'e 5/6 years younger than me and i think me and dude about the same age. I'll charge your viewpoint to ignorance,but @Art Barr aint getting off so easy. Do your research @Wacky D before you start taking all that E-cock in the mizzzouth. This dude previously said that bone wasnt recognized as dope till 1995.Now he's acting like they were getting major props in 1994 and known as great. I took those quotes and placed them in this thread (go look nikka). He never addressed his inconsistent bullshyt and you in here backing him up lmao.

6.Please post some of those lyrics that back up this statement you made. Lyrics that totally eclipse everything Snoop and Pac did from their inception through 1994.

So they need to outshine
The Chronic
Doggystyle
Murder was the case (not every song obviously)
Above the Rim (not every song obviously)
2pacalypse now
S4MN
Thuglife

Good luck nikka.

7.Bizzy nor Krayzie were bigger than pac in 1994.
In case you skimmed through,dude said bizzy and Krayzie were bigger than pac and snoop,(with heavy emphasis on bizzy) Claiming people wanted to be bizzy,devante etc in 1994.

Through 1994 Pac had 3 albums out including thuglife.
Plus starred in Juice,Poetic Justice with Janet Jackson,Above the Rim.
Plus all his features and controversy.
(Remember this is them as individuals,not the group as a whole vs Pac)

8.Snoop had Deep Cover, the Chronic appearances,Doggystyle
Murder was the case which was the movie and SDTK headed by him. Plus above the rim appearances
plus his own controversy.
In no form shape or fashion were they bigger than or big as Snoop in 1994. Not even the group as a whole was on snoop's level.

9.No they did not. They sold 2 mil through 1994. Snoop sold 4 mil of his own album by the end of 1994. .

10.You're just helping my point. Snoop and Pac were bigger than the individual bone members,quite easily

1.) here you go playing the age card. that's for corny people. just because youre older than somebody, it doesn't mean that youre more cognizant.
your embarrassing exhibition in this thread is proof positive of that.

if the album is a step down, youre gonna tape a step down, right along with it.


2.) so you try to dismiss me in part one. then turn around and try to get me to type an essay??

3.) because predator is the album that newer fans go to when they want to check out ice cube. and they usually stop there, assuming that's his best effort.
hence, the reason why hes rarely ever mentioned in the top 5s of people who didn't get into rap before the mid-90s or later.

4.) I don't think the OP himself knows the premise of this list.

5.) he cleared that '95 bone comment up already.

6.) pac & snoop didn't have bars like that. I'm not gonna sit up here and argue about pac & snoop lyrics. that's a kiddie table conversation. but for some reason, youre the one that's adamant about brining up people's ages.

7.) nobody said bizzy or krayzie singularly were bigger than pac at any point. learn how to read.

8.) in lamen's terms, bone was an easier sell. they came out the gate doing the same numbers with far less than half the hype.
hence, the reason why he said bone thugs were the bigger draw.
like I said, bone & snoop is arguable, depending on how you look at it.

9.) I think the point was, their EP cycle didn't end in '94.
the same way snoop's album cycle began months prior to '94, which youre conveniently over-looking.

10.) bone were bigger rappers than 2pac. pac was a bigger name for things off-wax.
I don't recall him saying bone was bigger than snoop yet. he was saying that they were bigger draws out the gate.

1.Lol,if it's still a classic,it's still a classic.
Bad by Mj sold maybe a 3rd of what thriller did and is a step down song for song (IMO) Still a classic.

Are you implying that all classics are created equal and precisely as good as every other album considered classic?

2.I dismissed you and rightfully so. If asking you to back up a statement YOU MADE is too much,maybe your statement is holds no weight. THIS IS A COP OUT. Which i figured you would take. Cause you aint built like that and dont know this shyt like me.

3.So by this logic,i would assume that new Nas fans skip over illmatic and go to stillmatic,it was written and I Am?

4.

5.Really,how so?

6.COP OUT ALERT. You made a statement,if you meant it back it up. It's not like they had a million verses in 1994. They probably had 5/6 tops. So let me know which ones outshined Snoop and Pac's entire 91'/92' - 1994 verses.
Or you could just fall the fukk back like you should have did in the first place lil nikka.

7.Art Barr DID say that. If you dont agree,then we're good (on that point)

8.You can say it a few more times and you'll still be wrong a few more times. You cant be outsold 2-1 and be on the SAME level nor can you be bigger.
2 mil and 4 mil are not the same numbers.

9.That's NOT the point. The argument is whom was bigger in 1994,not which album was bigger. So MY point still stands. Snoop was bigger in 1994. Doesnt matter when the album cycle ends. The core argument is which artist(s) was bigger. The answer is snoop,easily.

10.His argument is that Bizzy and Krayzie were bigger than pac and snoop. That is not true. Nor were anyone saying they were better than pac or snoop. (lil nikka you wasnt there)

You dont have to recall. I do. stay in your lane then.
You can't be a bigger draw out the gate,when you're not bigger AT ALL (IN 1994)

 

[Stick Up Kid]

Rakim
KRS One
Big Daddy Kane
Kool G Rap
Slick Rick/Ice Cube

End of Thread.

 

[JustCKing]

stop relying on industry cosigns. scarface was his bul.

nobody gave a f*ck about thug life until 2pac died, and they started yelling it in retrospect.

hence the reason why 2pac was on the box crying about bone.





because I can read, and hes just reiterating things that we've already said earlier in the thread.

you can tag him back in for further explanation. I think he might've fell back to avoid the headaches you tend to give people.

I'm not gonna go in circles about Nas. I really don't even like that niqqa, so you can believe what you want. youre wrong tho.
illmatic was slept-on COMMERCIALLY. not culturally.
​

1.) here you go playing the age card. that's for corny people. just because youre older than somebody, it doesn't mean that youre more cognizant.
your embarrassing exhibition in this thread is proof positive of that.

if the album is a step down, youre gonna tape a step down, right along with it.


2.) so you try to dismiss me in part one. then turn around and try to get me to type an essay??

3.) because predator is the album that newer fans go to when they want to check out ice cube. and they usually stop there, assuming that's his best effort.
hence, the reason why hes rarely ever mentioned in the top 5s of people who didn't get into rap before the mid-90s or later.

4.) I don't think the OP himself knows the premise of this list.

5.) he cleared that '95 bone comment up already.

6.) pac & snoop didn't have bars like that. I'm not gonna sit up here and argue about pac & snoop lyrics. that's a kiddie conversation. but for some reason, youre the one that's adamant about brining up people's ages. you would've got laughed off of my 5th grade lunch table, trying to argue about pac & snoop's bars breh.

7.) nobody said bizzy or krayzie singularly were bigger than pac at any point. learn how to read.

8.) in lamen's terms, bone was an easier sell. they came out the gate doing the same numbers with far less than half the hype.
hence, the reason why he said bone thugs were the bigger draw.
like I said, bone & snoop is arguable, depending on how you look at it.

9.) I think the point was, their EP cycle didn't end in '94.
the same way snoop's album cycle began months prior to '94, which youre conveniently over-looking.

10.) bone were bigger rappers than 2pac. pac was a bigger name for things off-wax. dude was like 1 more popular movie & 1 more so-so album away from being seen as 'an actor that raps'.

I don't recall him saying bone was bigger than snoop yet. he was saying that they were bigger draws out the gate.

Scargace spitting a line isn't an industry co-sign.

People did care about Thug Life. It became something that people attached to rap the same way the attached gangs to rap. It became cultural.

And see this is what I'm talking about. I wasn't talking about him reiteritating/regurgutating anything, I was talking to you in reference to you talkong about applying 2018 to 1994.

Point is he stopped discussing it for whatever reason. You could've stated your thoughts without ever attempting to explain what you think he meant.

Illmatic was slept on culturally. It wasn't exactly creating tidal waves out here. And since you want to harp on industry co-signs, that is what Illmatic backed by until Nas blew up.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Illmatic was slept on culturally. It wasn't exactly creating tidal waves out here. And since you want to harp on industry co-signs, that is what Illmatic backed by until Nas blew up.

It definitely wasn’t slept on culturally. Commercially it was tho

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

It definitely wasn’t slept on culturally. Commercially it was tho

Meaning what exactly?

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Meaning what exactly?

I’d answer your question but you’ll just come back with some east coast bias bs so I’ll leave it alone

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

I’d answer your question but you’ll just come back with some east coast bias bs so I’ll leave it alone

Cop out alert

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Cop out alert

Why should we have the same exact debate that we been having for years? You asked a question knowing what my answer would be and we already know what your response to that would be

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Why should we have the same exact debate that we been having for years? You asked a question knowing what my answer would be and we already know what your response to that would be

So basically you're afraid of getting sonned like always

 

[smokeurobinson]

you talking as though tommy had this cultural love.
that made puba bullet proof from the whole tommy rumor mill era.
plus, back then when people thought you sold out and stop playing games with you as far as a draw.
puba was not immune to this, and he felt the same fall off predating diamond going jiggy that diamond d had from the much later and subsequent production run of the fugees.
that by the time the boom of dem dare meets lo life misappropiation of brands came around.
tommy was damn near a dead brand like walker wear, kani, and cross colors as far as relevency in the culture.
they became main stream staples with people playing dress up, but culturally in hiphop tommy and puba was done.
i know so because all the vintage lo wear that is not snow beach dropped in the mid's before 1994.
the olympic runs, nasa jackets, lo bear sweater era all predated 1994 by more than a few years and the olympic run was before the 1996 olympics in 1992.

u said it yourself...Puba ushered in the term Backpacker. Say what u want but this video marks that era when someone like Buckshot was wearing the backpack after Puba signaling the term.






You say Puba was culturally irrelevant but by 94 the term Backpacker was in full effect.


And stop acting like Hilfiger wasnt still popping in the hood by 94.



Hilfiger still being hot and the term backpacker being in full effect is why i still had Puba as a contender in 94.

 

[JustCKing]

It definitely wasn’t slept on culturally. Commercially it was tho

How exactly was Illmatic moving the culture in 1994?

 

[JustCKing]

One more thing I wanted to address. How exactly was being 25 veing relatively ild for a rapper? Biggie was 22 when he dripped his debut in 1994. A lot of the rappers discussed here were at or near Pac's age, but @Wacky D is saying 25 was relatively old.

 

[daze23]

u said it yourself...Puba ushered in the term Backpacker. Say what u want but this video marks that era when someone like Buckshot was wearing the backpack after Puba signaling the term.






You say Puba was culturally irrelevant but by 94 the term Backpacker was in full effect.


And stop acting like Hilfiger wasnt still popping in the hood by 94.



Hilfiger still being hot and the term backpacker being in full effect is why i still had Puba as a c00ntender in 94.

knapsack filled with the shyt that I g'd
and a nickel bag of weed
yes indeed

 

[Art Barr]

It definitely wasn’t slept on culturally. Commercially it was tho

that was an exposal, right there for @JustCKing.

people in this thread talking like they were apart of the culture of hiphop in 94.
when we know better from their content they were not a part of the culture in 94.
in 96, is when commercial audiophiles and standard regular consumers became aware of what hiphop in the new school way of thought was.

which was from the marketing boom from leo burnett enterprising and ushering what would become and titled, urban.

u said it yourself...Puba ushered in the term Backpacker. Say what u want but this video marks that era when someone like Buckshot was wearing the backpack after Puba signaling the term.






You say Puba was culturally irrelevant but by 94 the term Backpacker was in full effect.


And stop acting like Hilfiger wasnt still popping in the hood by 94.



Hilfiger still being hot and the term backpacker being in full effect is why i still had Puba as a contender in 94.

you talking like ghettto and hiphop were similar back then and they were not at all.
they were completely juxtaposed from one another completely.
hiphop still had its culture in 94, and was not in the current post recession amalgamated everyone is the same shyt they try to pull off in the current age. everyone back then had their own schtick and they did not mingle at all socially in that era at all.
there was no mixing at all in a widespread cultural or social arena at all.
back then ghetto and hood was on perculator and chiffon shirt rnb with at best a pair of jodeci boots and just got into girbaud in 1993.
girbaud had just became a regular nikka mainstay at this point and was slowly being filtered out at this exact time.
tommy was on death door step back then culturally from the rumor. which sprung up exactly in late 93.
if puba was still a culture resounding draw. then he would have been a staple between mary's sales cycle on 411 and would have never cooled and been reamplified during the az sugar hill run which was a pay it forward culture draw for miss jones. who got lost in the whole rnb fusion being COMPLETELY TABOO. then her getting her comeuppance and subsequent back pay fter mary on 411.
on the next my life album puba was a dead draw on 2000 culturally and in the mainstream.
so how could he still be a relevent draw and he not get his draw rejuvenated by mary twice.

by his first lackluster solo puba was done and he was never rejuvenated as a draw.
if he was still a draw. why did he not make another large drawing envelope when the draw for rnb fusion was latching onto other labels and the mainstream.
puba was nowhere in the groove theory era as a cultural draw.
puba was nowhere as a draw in the az era.
puba was not a drawing component to 411, because he was a dead draw from trying to use mary to oversaturate and commercialize his failing draw on his solo.

also, i know your timeline is flawed from this detail about buckshot formerly buckshot shawty in 1994 as well.
buck shot ditched the shawty and the knapsack after who got the props and its longer sales cycle and delay.
which was from mid 92-mid93.
between the album release debut of black moon and the subsequent video to how many emcees.

it is a clear distinct direction change and maturity and buck shot was also one of the first completely articulate interviews and mainstays in media at that point.

it is a clear distinction between:
buck shot shawty




to this buckshot.






who got props buck shot and how many emcees, the subsequent remixes and the change in maturity with the shawty name drop.
plus, the name drop is a central content point on the full length.
where who got the props is the only call back because of its draw on the track listing to the full length.

the reason why i said 93, would be a better year was because all the previous ideals from the styles war era were completely changed by 94, and the coming of nas in the culture, SPECIFICALLY.

everything changed after nas was released.
trying to say it was not all changed and was not at that point in 94 a completely focused culture thing with no flodging would not be indicative of the truth.

in 94, shyt was as concrete culturally with no flodging as possible at the time.

in 93, you still had the beginning funk of the prison industrial economy still there.
trying to dictate the rap game via sales, content and drive the direction of the culture away from its anti gang based and noncommercialism new school way of thought beginnings, changes and stances.


art barr