Which State has the most Tax Burdened population?

OfTheCross

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Breh, my initial comment stands on its own just fine. I pointed out that the numbers were superficial and meaningless without more context. You're the one who wants to "have a discussion" on the topic, I think the list is meaningless so why should I put forth a bunch of energy on it? If you think the list without any context is a great proof of.....something, then well good on ya.


And this is the 3rd time I've had to say this, but no, counterexamples do not disprove generalizations. I don't know what about that statement hasn't gotten through.


It's proof that living in NY is more expensive, from a taxes perspective, than living in any other State. And so on...that's all the Rankings in the OP are for.

If you feel like those numbers need context, actually add the context, don't just offer assumptions with no data to back it up.
 

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It's proof that living in NY is more expensive, from a taxes perspective, than living in any other State. And so on...that's all the Rankings in the OP are for.

It actually doesn't even do that, because computing averages for two different populations doesn't tell you what any one person faces. Like I pointed out, the average citizen in New York makes far more money than the average citizen in many of those states, like Arkansas.

If you took some poor or working class person in Arkansas, and compared them to someone in the same position in New York, would the person in Arkansas pay more or less in taxes? Well, neither one of them is going to be paying much if anything in income taxes, but Arkansas has one of the highest sales taxes in the nation, which disproportionately affects people on the lower end of the scale a lot more. Averaging in all the income/property taxes paid by rich people in New York doesn't tell you jack shyt about how the poor/working class person in either state would fair.

Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, Texas, Mississippi, South Dakota, North Dakota, Alabama, Florida, Arizona, Kansas, and Tennessee are 12 of the 15 worst states in terms of sales tax burden. Meanwhile those same states have very low income tax burden. So that gives you an idea of how their tax burden isn't going to hit the same portions of the population and how limited an "average" tax burden is.

And that's before you even get into how tax burdens (in a well-run state) will offset other burdens, such as health care costs or education outcomes.
 

OfTheCross

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It actually doesn't even do that, because computing averages for two different populations doesn't tell you what any one person faces. Like I pointed out, the average citizen in New York makes far more money than the average citizen in many of those states, like Arkansas.

If you took some poor or working class person in Arkansas, and compared them to someone in the same position in New York, would the person in Arkansas pay more or less in taxes? Well, neither one of them is going to be paying much if anything in income taxes, but Arkansas has one of the highest sales taxes in the nation, which disproportionately affects people on the lower end of the scale a lot more. Averaging in all the income/property taxes paid by rich people in New York doesn't tell you jack shyt about how the poor/working class person in either state would fair.

Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, Texas, Mississippi, South Dakota, North Dakota, Alabama, Florida, Arizona, Kansas, and Tennessee are 12 of the 15 worst states in terms of sales tax burden. Meanwhile those same states have very low income tax burden. So that gives you an idea of how their tax burden isn't going to hit the same portions of the population and how limited an "average" tax burden is.

And that's before you even get into how tax burdens (in a well-run state) will offset other burdens, such as health care costs or education outcomes.

The median income in NY vs. AR. are about 71K and 51K.

2019, Release Tables: Real Median Household Income by State, Annual | FRED | St. Louis Fed

Yet the taxes in NY are considerably higher. So, yes, the OP is correct that NY is more expensive.

A couple making $55K in Arkansas would pay an estimated $13k in taxes (including sales tax) ; while a couple in NY making $70K would pay $21k (including sales tax).

Arkansas Income Tax Calculator - SmartAsset
New York Income Tax Calculator - SmartAsset

So, the median household in AR has a tax burden of 23% vs. a tax burden of 30% in NY.

Even when you factor in the sales taxes (which the OP does), the median household would pay considerably less in all of those States you mentioned vs. NY.

The rankings in the OP do a good job of showing which State has the most tax burdened citizens. Whether or not they're getting bang for their buck is another question...
 

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The median income in NY vs. AR. are about 71K and 51K.

2019, Release Tables: Real Median Household Income by State, Annual | FRED | St. Louis Fed

Yet the taxes in NY are considerably higher. So, yes, the OP is correct that NY is more expensive.

A couple making $55K in Arkansas would pay an estimated $13k in taxes (including sales tax) ; while a couple in NY making $70K would pay $21k (including sales tax).

Arkansas Income Tax Calculator - SmartAsset
New York Income Tax Calculator - SmartAsset

So, the median household in AR has a tax burden of 23% vs. a tax burden of 30% in NY.

Even when you factor in the sales taxes (which the OP does), the median household would pay considerably less in all of those States you mentioned vs. NY.

The rankings in the OP do a good job of showing which State has the most tax burdened citizens. Whether or not they're getting bang for their buck is another question...

Why would you compare the % tax burden of the median in each state when NY's median is 20k higher? The take-home income for the median family in NY by your calculations ends up being 17k higher than the take-home median income in Arkansas. Sounds like a win to me.

And that's before you even take into account that the NY family gets advantage of all the things those taxes pay for (better education system, better health care system, better infrastructure, better safety net) that the Arkansas family either doesn't get or only gets because they're being subsidized with federal money from the "high tax" states.
 

OfTheCross

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Why would you compare the % tax burden of the median in each state when NY's median is 20k higher? The take-home income for the median family in NY by your calculations ends up being 17k higher than the take-home median income in Arkansas. Sounds like a win to me.

And that's before you even take into account that the NY family gets advantage of all the things those taxes pay for (better education system, better health care system, better infrastructure, better safety net) that the Arkansas family either doesn't get or only gets because they're being subsidized with federal money from the "high tax" states.
It's not 17K more for NY, you did the math wrong.

Arkansas: 55K income - 13K taxes = 42K take home
New York: 70K income - 23K taxes = 47K take home

That's definitely not a win for NY when the cost of living if more than 50% higher there than in Arkansas

Cost of Living Data Series | Missouri Economic Research and Information Center
 

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It's not 17K more for NY, you did the math wrong.

Arkansas: 55K income - 13K taxes = 42K take home
New York: 70K income - 23K taxes = 47K take home
You're right that I misread your post, but those are also different numbers than you posted above. By your first post it would be 21k in taxes and 49k in New York, not 47k.




That's definitely not a win for NY when the cost of living if more than 50% higher there than in Arkansas

Cost of Living Data Series | Missouri Economic Research and Information Center
Wait, didn't you already say that the benefits of the taxes paid can't be taken into account? You didn't want to add any context at all to your initial #'s, but now you want to add cost of living into the equation? So now you wish to compare states with all of the costs included but none of the benefits - factor in cost of living but completely ignore better education, better health care, better infrastructure? There's a reason why Arkansas is at the bottom of quality of life rankings: "The Natural State placed #45 in the overall rankings. It was dragged down by its bad scores in Health Care, Crime & Corrections, Infrastructure, Education, Opportunity and Economy."

In fact, the bottom 10 quality of life states are Kentucky, South Carolina, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Alaska, Alabama, West Virginia, New Mexico, Mississippi, and Louisiana. Hmmm....what do those states have in common? But suddenly you want to take cost of living into account, but don't want to include quality of life or government services into account.

Second, doesn't cost of living already take tax burden into account? It's unclear from your link, there's no information there on how those numbers are calculated or even whether "cost of living index" is a straight % like you assumed it to be or something else. So taking the tax burden and cost-of-living separately, you're probably double-counting.

And how does that "index" actually affect the median taxpayer or is it just distorted by the wealthy? I just compared the cost of living of two similar-sized cities in the two states (Buffalo and Little Rock), and this calculator claims that outside of taxes, Buffalo is actually cheaper to live in than Little Rock. That suggests to me that the cost of living index you posted is distorted by the super high cost of living in New York, with a huge population of higher-income people, and may not hold across the rest of the state.

Of course, these are the sorts of factors you have to look at when making real comparisons across states and not just posting contextless shyt from propaganda mills. :comeon:
 

Outlaw

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One thing that is being missed here is that the federal government takes more from Democratic states to subsidize Republican states. This likely leads to blue states having to tax their citizens more to make up the difference.
 

The Fukin Prophecy

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It's not 17K more for NY, you did the math wrong.

Arkansas: 55K income - 13K taxes = 42K take home
New York: 70K income - 23K taxes = 47K take home

That's definitely not a win for NY when the cost of living if more than 50% higher there than in Arkansas

Cost of Living Data Series | Missouri Economic Research and Information Center
Not a win for NY is an understatement, that is a massive L...

The person taking home 42k after taxes in Arkansas is a home owner...

The person taking home 47K after taxes in NY splits rent with 4 other people...
 

OfTheCross

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You're right that I misread your post, but those are also different numbers than you posted above. By your first post it would be 21k in taxes and 49k in New York, not 47k.





Wait, didn't you already say that the benefits of the taxes paid can't be taken into account? You didn't want to add any context at all to your initial #'s, but now you want to add cost of living into the equation? So now you wish to compare states with all of the costs included but none of the benefits - factor in cost of living but completely ignore better education, better health care, better infrastructure? There's a reason why Arkansas is at the bottom of quality of life rankings: "The Natural State placed #45 in the overall rankings. It was dragged down by its bad scores in Health Care, Crime & Corrections, Infrastructure, Education, Opportunity and Economy."

In fact, the bottom 10 quality of life states are Kentucky, South Carolina, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Alaska, Alabama, West Virginia, New Mexico, Mississippi, and Louisiana. Hmmm....what do those states have in common? But suddenly you want to take cost of living into account, but don't want to include quality of life or government services into account.

Second, doesn't cost of living already take tax burden into account? It's unclear from your link, there's no information there on how those numbers are calculated or even whether "cost of living index" is a straight % like you assumed it to be or something else. So taking the tax burden and cost-of-living separately, you're probably double-counting.

And how does that "index" actually affect the median taxpayer or is it just distorted by the wealthy? I just compared the cost of living of two similar-sized cities in the two states (Buffalo and Little Rock), and this calculator claims that outside of taxes, Buffalo is actually cheaper to live in than Little Rock. That suggests to me that the cost of living index you posted is distorted by the super high cost of living in New York, with a huge population of higher-income people, and may not hold across the rest of the state.

Of course, these are the sorts of factors you have to look at when making real comparisons across states and not just posting contextless shyt from propaganda mills. :comeon:


You're doing the same thing you did earlier where you're asking a bunch of leading questions but not really offering any actual evidence or answers.

Earlier I said that if you want to take "benefits" into the equation that it was a separate conversation. We can discuss it along with CoL if you'd like, but it doesn't change the fact that the median household in NY, for instance, pays 7% more in taxes than the median household in AR.

Hell, even a home making $55K in NY is paying 30% towards taxes.

New York Income Tax Calculator - SmartAsset

That's all the OP is ranking. Since we agree on thst, though, we can move on to conversing about "benefits", CoL, and other things if you'd like
 

OfTheCross

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You're right that I misread your post, but those are also different numbers than you posted above. By your first post it would be 21k in taxes and 49k in New York, not 47k.





Wait, didn't you already say that the benefits of the taxes paid can't be taken into account? You didn't want to add any context at all to your initial #'s, but now you want to add cost of living into the equation? So now you wish to compare states with all of the costs included but none of the benefits - factor in cost of living but completely ignore better education, better health care, better infrastructure? There's a reason why Arkansas is at the bottom of quality of life rankings: "The Natural State placed #45 in the overall rankings. It was dragged down by its bad scores in Health Care, Crime & Corrections, Infrastructure, Education, Opportunity and Economy."

In fact, the bottom 10 quality of life states are Kentucky, South Carolina, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Alaska, Alabama, West Virginia, New Mexico, Mississippi, and Louisiana. Hmmm....what do those states have in common? But suddenly you want to take cost of living into account, but don't want to include quality of life or government services into account.

Second, doesn't cost of living already take tax burden into account? It's unclear from your link, there's no information there on how those numbers are calculated or even whether "cost of living index" is a straight % like you assumed it to be or something else. So taking the tax burden and cost-of-living separately, you're probably double-counting.

And how does that "index" actually affect the median taxpayer or is it just distorted by the wealthy? I just compared the cost of living of two similar-sized cities in the two states (Buffalo and Little Rock), and this calculator claims that outside of taxes, Buffalo is actually cheaper to live in than Little Rock. That suggests to me that the cost of living index you posted is distorted by the super high cost of living in New York, with a huge population of higher-income people, and may not hold across the rest of the state.

Of course, these are the sorts of factors you have to look at when making real comparisons across states and not just posting contextless shyt from propaganda mills. :comeon:


Regarding Buffalo and Little Rock...both earning $55K.

https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/little-rock-ar/buffalo-ny/55000

A salary of $55,000 in Little Rock, Arkansas could decrease to $51,134 in Buffalo, New York (assumptions include Homeowner, no Child Care, and Taxes are not considered. Click here to customize.)

Lol. That's not including taxes which we have to pay...


NY simply charges more to live and it costs more to live there than Arkansas, let's agree that the rankings are correct and move the conversation along to "bang for buck" talk, of you'd like
 

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This is most definitely true. I used to work as an analyst in HR. NY had federal, state and local taxes :scust:and they had other ‘tax’ demands which they took off employee checks as deductions.
 

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This is most definitely true. I used to work as an analyst in HR. NY had federal, state and local taxes :scust:and they had other ‘tax’ demands which they took off employee checks as deductions.
I'm fairly sure all cities have federal, state, and local taxes. Deductions are also a part of working in general.

Did you thnk that was because you were an analyst in NY?
 

The Fukin Prophecy

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This is most definitely true. I used to work as an analyst in HR. NY had federal, state and local taxes :scust:and they had other ‘tax’ demands which they took off employee checks as deductions.
The best is the living within in the 5 boroughs tax...
 
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