Who else wants to see LBJ win it all just so...

Mantis Toboggan M.D.

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Actually, that gap is sort of close for the 2000 Finals. Remember, that year Kobe only averaged 19/5/4 in the regular season, 21/4/4 in the playoffs, and an embarassing 13/5/4 in the Finals on 37% shooting. Meanwhile, Shaq was averaging 35 and 18 on 60% shooting.

At least in the 2000 NBA Finals, Kobe was certainly less help to his team overall than Shaq was in 2006.
Wasn't it 15.6 a game :mjlol:? I left that window open for you but I was referring to the 2001 and 2002 finals. The best part is about how they argue Wade had a good enough team to win from 2007-10 and how LeBron had a good enough team from 2003-10 and argue that Kobe was the one with bad teammates when and criteria you use shows otherwise. It's cult worship and the doomsday cult theory that when you prove to a cult the world isn't ending, instead of accepting reality, they just double down on their stupidity. These people try to argue that Kobe is better than Michael in some aspects at times. I've heard them try to say playing without Shaq he could average 40 a game when he peaked at 35.6 a game without him and mike peaked at 37 a game, on top of the fact that nobody but wilt ever averaged 38+ per game. Their brains can't process any facts that say Kobe isn't the greatest ever even if it's true.
 

Squirrel from Meteor Man

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So from impact and effectiveness impact, Lebron is better than Kobe...so what's pure basketball?

Lebron is a better passer, finisher at the rim, slasher, playmaker, more efficient and smarter scorer, and...

Oh, Lebron also shoots as many 3PA as Kobe has, over their careers, and is shooting slightly higher percentages too.
You are insane if you think Lebron can hold a candle to kobe scoring the basketball
 

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The same insanity that has Lebron at 27.5ppg career on 50% shooting, but Kobe at 25.5ppg career on 45% shooting? :usure:

Lebron's a better scorer at the hoop, Kobe's a better scorer in mid-range, they're both average three-point shooters.
 
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Squirrel from Meteor Man

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Nightmarish turnover rate? Lebron had his worst turnover season ever (joined a new squad and had to figure out rhythm with them), yet he still had fewer turnovers than Kobe did in his worst season. And before this year, Kobe had FOUR seasons with a higher turnover rate than Lebron's worst season ever. Lebron has slightly more career turnovers/game than Kobe, but only because Kobe rarely had to handle the ball during the Shaq days when the Lakers had an elite squad - ever since Shaq left and Kobe averaged a horrific 4.1 turnovers a game the next season, Kobe has had a worse turnover rate than Lebron.

Literally no one argues that Kobe is a better passer than Lebron. It's not even just the assist stats (like Kobe's best full season being worse than every Lebron season since his rookie year). Lebron makes more assists, looks for the assists more, sees the asissts better, makes better decisions on assists, and makes nicer passes on assists. His lifetime assist/turnover ratio is 6.9/3.4, while Kobe's is 4.8/3.0, and Lebron did most of that with far inferior teammates to pass to. Again, no one argues this.

Lebron is also a better rebounder than Kobe. Don't know how you missed that one, but the guy averaging 7.1 boards for his career (8.5 in the playoffs) is a better rebounder than the guy averaging 5.3 boards (and only 5.1 in the playoffs).

Lebron is a better scorer at the rim than Kobe is. Again, this isn't an argument - among perimeter players, Lebron is there with MJ as the greatest scorers at the rim ever, and has probably gotten more clutch shots at the rim than any other player in history. This isn't even a strong area for Kobe.

Lebron has a higher career 3pt% than Kobe. For his career, Lebron averages 1.4 threes a game as a 34% clip. For his career, Kobe averages 1.3 threes a game at a 33% clip. Lebron has a higher % in the playoffs as well until he lost his shot for the first 2 rounds this season and hs number cratered (Kobe's numbers would have cratered too with his awful three-point shooting over the last 5 seasons, but he hardly made the playoffs). Argue shooting mechanics all you want, but then you have to explain why Lebron managed to get results in real games better than Kobe did.

Lebron is better at defending 5s, 4s, 3s, and 1s than Kobe is. Literally the only position which Kobe defends better than Lebron is the 2. Lebron is the guy who is sent to guard the other team's best player much more often than Kobe is, even when that's a point guard. And Lebron is a more disruptive off-ball defender than Kobe, averaging more steals (1.7 to 1.5) and more blocks (0.9 to 0.5) for his career. No one on Earth believes that Kobe is a better shot-blocker than Lebron. No one on Earth believes that Kobe defends big men better than Lebron. Adn most people acknowledge that Lebron defends 1s and 3s better than Kobe too.

Finally, Lebron runs the offense better than Kobe. Kobe is a better ball-handler, but Lebron is better at actually guiding the whole team from the point, which is why he's been doing it from his rookie season and Kobe's only done it occastionally over his career, and usually with hero-ball results.

So your assertion that Kobe does "literally everything better but pass"? :camby: Passing, rebounding, scoring at the rim, blocking shots, and defending bigs are all no-brainers, and Lebron's had better results on running the offense, defending PGs, and hitting threes too. You sound like a fool.
You are insane.
 

Goatpoacher

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Nightmarish turnover rate? Lebron had his worst turnover season ever (joined a new squad and had to figure out rhythm with them), yet he still had fewer turnovers than Kobe did in his worst season. And before this year, Kobe had FOUR seasons with a higher turnover rate than Lebron's worst season ever. Lebron has slightly more career turnovers/game than Kobe, but only because Kobe rarely had to handle the ball during the Shaq days when the Lakers had an elite squad - ever since Shaq left and Kobe averaged a horrific 4.1 turnovers a game the next season, Kobe has had a worse turnover rate than Lebron.

Literally no one argues that Kobe is a better passer than Lebron. It's not even just the assist stats (like Kobe's best full season being worse than every Lebron season since his rookie year). Lebron makes more assists, looks for the assists more, sees the asissts better, makes better decisions on assists, and makes nicer passes on assists. His lifetime assist/turnover ratio is 6.9/3.4, while Kobe's is 4.8/3.0, and Lebron did most of that with far inferior teammates to pass to. Again, no one argues this.

Lebron is also a better rebounder than Kobe. Don't know how you missed that one, but the guy averaging 7.1 boards for his career (8.5 in the playoffs) is a better rebounder than the guy averaging 5.3 boards (and only 5.1 in the playoffs).

Lebron is a better scorer at the rim than Kobe is. Again, this isn't an argument - among perimeter players, Lebron is there with MJ as the greatest scorers at the rim ever, and has probably gotten more clutch shots at the rim than any other player in history. This isn't even a strong area for Kobe.

Lebron has a higher career 3pt% than Kobe. For his career, Lebron averages 1.4 threes a game as a 34% clip. For his career, Kobe averages 1.3 threes a game at a 33% clip. Lebron has a higher % in the playoffs as well until he lost his shot for the first 2 rounds this season and hs number cratered (Kobe's numbers would have cratered too with his awful three-point shooting over the last 5 seasons, but he hardly made the playoffs). Argue shooting mechanics all you want, but then you have to explain why Lebron managed to get results in real games better than Kobe did.

Lebron is better at defending 5s, 4s, 3s, and 1s than Kobe is. Literally the only position which Kobe defends better than Lebron is the 2. Lebron is the guy who is sent to guard the other team's best player much more often than Kobe is, even when that's a point guard. And Lebron is a more disruptive off-ball defender than Kobe, averaging more steals (1.7 to 1.5) and more blocks (0.9 to 0.5) for his career. No one on Earth believes that Kobe is a better shot-blocker than Lebron. No one on Earth believes that Kobe defends big men better than Lebron. Adn most people acknowledge that Lebron defends 1s and 3s better than Kobe too.

Finally, Lebron runs the offense better than Kobe. Kobe is a better ball-handler, but Lebron is better at actually guiding the whole team from the point, which is why he's been doing it from his rookie season and Kobe's only done it occastionally over his career, and usually with hero-ball results.

So your assertion that Kobe does "literally everything better but pass"? :camby: Passing, rebounding, scoring at the rim, blocking shots, and defending bigs are all no-brainers, and Lebron's had better results on running the offense, defending PGs, and hitting threes too. You sound like a fool.

:whoo:
 

Squirrel from Meteor Man

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use all the stats you want. The fact you would even dare to argue lebron is a better 3 point shooter than Kobe Bryant, who holds the record for most 3s in a game, tells me I shouldn't be having this convo.

Kobe is a better basketball player than Lebron and it's not close. Lebron has no moves, no post game, routinely throws turnovers because he doesn't look and expects his buddies to be sitting in the corner waiting for him (which is why dion waiters got traded), can't shoot and has weak handle (see: every time he dares to go behind his back). He's a better finisher? Oh how about because he's 260 and jumps out the gym. Kobe is much craftier even in his advanced age.

Lebron will always have great numbers because he's had the ball in his hand since he was 18. He's the best athlete to ever play basketball but far from the best basketball player. This will, and has become more apparent as he gets older.
 

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use all the stats you want. The fact you would even dare to argue lebron is a better 3 point shooter than Kobe Bryant, who holds the record for most 3s in a game, tells me I shouldn't be having this convo.

He's actually TIED for that record....with Donyell Marshall. :russ:

Yet another symptom of Kobe-stan world....where a single regular-season game stat matters more than your career stats. :mjlol:

Hey, Ray Allen's never hit more than 10 in a game, and Reggie Miller's never hit more than 8. Man, who would ever say that those guys are comparable at threes to Donyell Marshall, who holds the record for most 3s in a game. :lolbron:
 
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Squirrel from Meteor Man

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He's actually TIED for that record....with Donyell Marshall. :russ:

Yet another symptom of Kobe-stan world....where a single regular-season game stat matters more than your career stats. :mjlol:

Hey, Ray Allen's never hit more than 10 in a game, and Reggie Miller's never hit more than 8. Man, what idiot would ever say that those guys are comparable at threes to Donyell Marshall, who holds the record for most 3s in a game. :lolbron:
So Lebron shoots better than Kobe? Go ahead, don't just look, jump all the way out the window.
Career stats do matter. 5/7 > 2/5. Including the worst finals beating in the history of this here National Basketball Association.
 

Goatpoacher

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He's actually TIED for that record....with Donyell Marshall. :russ:

Yet another symptom of Kobe-stan world....where a single regular-season game stat matters more than your career stats. :mjlol:

Hey, Ray Allen's never hit more than 10 in a game, and Reggie Miller's never hit more than 8. Man, what idiot would ever say that those guys are comparable at threes to Donyell Marshall, who holds the record for most 3s in a game. :lolbron:

Everybody knows Donyell Marshall is a better 3 point shooter than Curry.

It's funny though: Kobe is a great 3 point shooter because of a record he shares with Donyell Marshall. But when Lebron passes a game winning shot to Donyell Marshall, who was wide open, it's a stupid move

WTF?
 

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Lebron, he of the current 7/50 hot streak from 3, is a better shooter than Kobe. Yeah, I'm out

Yes, because Kobe's been shooting threes at a blistering rate recently. Oh, maybe, 29% this season and 18% last season? He had some fantastic 4-32, 6-33, and 11-41 stretches during that time.

But best of all, who could forget 2013, where Kobe had his incredible 1-33 stretch in 15 games. ONE three in 15 games. :russ:

That's what happens when you cherry-pick statistics - they get cherry-picked right back in your face.


And I didn't say that Lebron was a better shooter than Kobe. Lebron is a better inside scorer, Kobe is a better midrange shooter, they are both average three-point shooters (with Lebron having slightly better career results).
 
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Professor Emeritus

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So Lebron shoots better than Kobe? Go ahead, don't just look, jump all the way out the window.
Career stats do matter. 5/7 > 2/5. Including the worst finals beating in the history of this here National Basketball Association.

Hey, look, it's RINGZ!11!!! again! Are we in Kobestan now, where getting to play on Phil/Shaq's team for 40% of your career matters more than anything else?
 

Squirrel from Meteor Man

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I'm a kobe Stan, but you are literally spewing out the numbers of the man. Numbers I don't know or care about. Coli is a strange place :ohhh:. Like i said, you think Lebron shoots better than Kobe so that tells me the type of thinking you have going on over there.
 

Draje

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I'm a kobe Stan, but you are literally spewing out the numbers of the man. Numbers I don't know or care about. Coli is a strange place :ohhh:. Like i said, you think Lebron shoots better than Kobe so that tells me the type of thinking you have going on over there.
I'm a kobe Stan, but you are literally spewing out the numbers of the man. Numbers I don't know or care about. Coli is a strange place :ohhh:. Like i said, you think Lebron shoots better than Kobe so that tells me the type of thinking you have going on over there.

So you've pretty much given up using stats to help your argument?

Why does Lebron score more than Kobe on higher percentages? Why does he shoot the same amount of threes per game on higher efficiency?

Explain these things.
 
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