Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
Why has this become a buzz phrase on this board? 'Besides scoring what exactly does x-player do better'.
The best scorers in the game are usually the best players in the game. Wall isn't. Kyrie is.
Who has the higher ceiling: Kyrie Irving or John Wall?
- Thread starter Jermio
- Start date
The best scorers in the game are usually the best players in the game. Wall isn't. Kyrie is.
Dog I just asked a simple question. Just from reading, it seems like your whole basis for Kyrie being better than Wall is shooting/scoring.
Since there are many more aspects to the game of playing basketball, especially at the point guard position, just wanted to know what made Kyrie better than Wall?
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
And you'd be right.
Scoring/shooting.
He's an elite scorer. The elite scorers in the game, 90% of the time are the best players. The only way I can see Wall being better in the next season or so is if he learns how to run an efficient offense (which is predicated on him improving his shooting), otherwise he won't be.
Ok cool, and I agree with you. Kyrie is a much better shooter and scorer than Wall. What do you think about Wall vs Kyrie in the other aspects of the game besides scoring?
To be real, I prefer Wall, but I can't knock you for saying you think Kyrie is better. I just prefer a more well-rounded floor general at the point then someone whose best attribute by far is scoring
To be real, I prefer Wall, but I can't knock you for saying you think Kyrie is better. I just prefer a more well-rounded floor general at the point then someone whose best attribute by far is scoring
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
Wall is a better defender and passer.
If your preference is floor generals that run of the worst offenses in the league, then cool, I guess
To be perfectly honest, even though Kyrie has the edge, they're both on the same level - young unproven guards who haven't done shyt in the league.
When Wall's scoring is on
Wall is a better defender and passer.
If your preference is floor generals that run of the worst offenses in the league, then cool, I guess
To be perfectly honest, even though Kyrie has the edge, they're both on the same level - young unproven guards who haven't done shyt in the league.
I blame that on Wittman, not Wall.
I give Wall the edge, but you're right. They both gotta prove their worth this year. Both of them can take that next step in this playoffs.
Goat poster
KANG LIFE
The medal rounds?
That's THREE games. How the hell can you come to the conclusion are player can or cannot do something off three games playing with ELITE talent all across the court?
2012 Olympics:
USA played Australia in the quarterfinals - Hardly the greatest competition, Bron was the main ball handler and had 11 assists - nearly more assists than every player combined. Clearly not a game that showcased his ability of playing off the ball.
USA played Argentina in the semi-final - Bron still was one of the main ball handlers - he and CP3 were the main ball handlers (they both averaged the most assists) with D-will playing a minor part. Most of the off-ball play was designed around Melo and Durant. Bron played at the top and directed the team, he had a few possessions posting up in the lost post, but most of his activity was either creating offense for himself or for the team or moving the ball around the perimeter.
USA played Spain in the final - Bron again was one of the main ball handlers and again he had the most assists -
Every single one of his baskets except for one alley-oop in transition, and one feed in the low post was him creating off the dribble.
He finished with 45 assists, second most at the Olympics - clearly he wasn't playing off the ball as much as you thought he was.
That's not it at all. It's because his best position is running a team - playing PG. He's never played off ball in the NBA, because he's never ever played off ball in his life. He's not the type of player to be running off screens or spotting up. And that's fine, he is who he is. I don't know why this is so hard to understand after he's been in the league for over a decade.
He needs the ball in his hands to operate. There's been no point in his career where he's been able to function without creating his own offense.
It's not a lie. It's the truth.
Just cuase a player can get Assist and can create off the dribble DOES NOT mean they were playin on Ball.
Go back and check the tape again, The vast majority of times they showed someone bringing the ball up the court it was CP3.
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
Ah yes it does. He ended up with the second most assists at the Olympics. You can't demonstrate your off-the-ball ability if you're averaging that amount of assists on the international stage - on a team where the scoring is so evenly distributed due to star players all needing touches that it would've been nearly impossible for Bron to build any rhythm or reps through playing without the ball, as well being one of the main ball handlers. It simply can't be done. There's not enough possessions to go around.
Just cuase a player can get Assist and can create off the dribble DOES NOT mean they were playin on Ball.
You do realize that most of these players listed above are PGs right? You do realize ALL these players were the main ball-handlers on their respective teams right?
How could it be possible that Bron was playing off the ball to the degree that you're insinuating?
Go back and check the tape again, The vast majority of times they showed someone bringing the ball up the court it was CP3.
What does that have to do with anything? You referenced the Olympics as him playing off the ball and you were wrong. CP3 may have brought the ball up from the inbounds pass, but in the half court Bron was the main playmaker. I can guarantee you, if you were to find some tracking stats from the Olympics - Bron would've been #1 or #2 in time of possession with ball in hand on that team.
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
lets just ignore we have a dumbass on the benchIf your preference is floor generals that run of the worst offenses in the league, then cool, I guess
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
double
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How can he run an efficient offense when the offense he is running is one of the worst schemes in the NBA (Flip Saunders long two centric system)?
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
on top of that, Wall running that offense and Wall not running the offense leads to a 10 point drop off.
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
Yes I think we all know what role Wittman has in this, but Wall plays a major part too. Wall's basically allowed to freelance out there, him pounding the ball into the ground and not looking to score or not being able to score more often than not is a major issue.