Why are Michael Jordan fans the worst in sports?

[SwagKingKong]

How the fukk do you build an argument around a stupid stat like "adjusted for pace"? You can't just adjust for pace in a formula without accounting for minutes played and fatigue. You can't just talk about possessions per game because the rules changed, defenses changed and a whole bunch of other factors that a formula can't account for.

Obviously, it's not supposed to be used as the only argument in comparing players. It was a counter argument to the whole "he averaged 50 and 25 boards" thing..

You would obviously have to factor in all of the other things as well. But I've never seen a serious conversation in comparing Wilt to modern day players and not adjusting his numbers for pace, it's idiotic not to. I'm not saying those numbers are his absolute ceiling, because of things like fatigue etc. but it gives us a good indication of how "dominant" or maybe "not so dominant" his numbers actually were. His raw numbers are inflated, it's as simple as that.

 

[dantheman9758]

Obviously, it's not supposed to be used as the only argument in comparing players. It was a counter argument to the whole "he averaged 50 and 25 boards" thing..

You would obviously have to factor in all of the other things as well. But I've never seen a serious conversation in comparing Wilt to modern day players and not adjusting his numbers for pace, it's idiotic not to. I'm not saying those numbers are his absolute ceiling, because of things like fatigue etc. but it gives us a good indication of how "dominant" or maybe "not so dominant" his numbers actually were. His raw numbers are inflated, it's as simple as that.

"leading the league in ______ by ______ amount for _____ of seasons in a _____ season career" and you acknowledge records for what they are, records - iis how your supposed to look at it dummy, you don't start hacking peoples stats up with your contextless fictional BS

Wonder what Kobe's 81 point season stats would be like today if we adjusted them would prob only score 50 points today if he tried that in todays league pace and would only average 27ppg tops

 

[Raw Lyrics]

You posted a video and a picture of awards saying "u mad". Then you are claiming I am the one embarrassing myself?

You haven't came up with one legit reason why MJ is GOAT and better than KAJ, Wilt, Russell, and Lebron.

I'll give you a few (before he even won a title):

In 1988, Michael Jordan averaged 32.5 points per game (Higher than any of the seasons Lebron has played in the NBA),

8 assist per game (more than Lebron has ever averaged in a single season),

8 rebounds per game (more than Lebron has ever averaged in his previous 9 seasons)

2.9 steals per game (also more than Lebron has ever averaged in steals),

on 53.8% from the field (Though Lebron currently sits at 55.5 - Jordan's 53.8% is still higher than Lebron's previous 9 seasons). Not to mention Jordan's 85% free throwing shooting compared to Lebron's 73%.

That was an epic season done out of necessity, due to the fact that Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen had not yet come of age. Lebron doesn't have a season better than that, and that arguably isn't even Jordan's best season. With the aforementioned facts I've just supplied; it's safe to say, from a numerical perspective, Michael Jordan could do everything Lebron can do - at a higher rate within a 48 minute span. Thus making Jordan, presumably, the better basketball player.

Also, the year before...MJ won a Scoring title and a Defensive Player of the Year award in the same season. Making him not only the best offensive player in the game, but the best defensive player as well...has Lebron ever done that?

I won't touch Lebron's well-documented coronary issues.

 

[SwagKingKong]

"leading the league in ______ by ______ amount for _____ of seasons in a _____ season career" is how your supposed to look at it dummy, you don't start hacking peoples stats up with your contextless fictional BS

Wonder what Kobe's 81 point season stats would be like today if we adjusted them would prob only score 60 points today if he tried that in todays league pace

Ok, so by that logic, no one will ever be able to touch Wilt. It's impossible to reach 50 ppg and 28 rpg in a season so therefore he's the GOAT? Right?

Let's completely ignore that teams were chucking bad shots as a habit during this period of time and that created more shooting opportunities for him and rebounding opportunities. Let's all pretend that Wilts scoring numbers aren't inflated at all.

 

[dantheman9758]

Ok, so by that logic, no one will ever be able to touch Wilt. It's impossible to reach 50 ppg and 28 rpg in a season so therefore he's the GOAT? Right?

Let's completely ignore that teams were chucking bad shots as a habit during this period of time and that created more shooting opportunities for him and rebounding opportunities. Let's all pretend that Wilts scoring numbers aren't inflated at all.

Bingo. In terms of individual dominance and ability to impose statistical will on a game or season, no one can touch Wilt... hence he's a GOAT candidate. He'd be chasing records today, leading the league in several categories for most of his entire career today, he'd be doing relatively the same head shaking shyt today, that's the way you gotta look at it. You don't start fudging his numbers, just ignore his numbers if they bother you that much, and just look at how many times he lead the league or came close to leading the league in several categories throughout his career, and look at how he raised the bar and set it so high nobody 40 and 50 years later has still even been able to touch it. Wilt as an individual could do whatever he wanted to do, and his peers will tell you that. Your trying to sell Wilt Chamberlain short son. He's Wilt Chamberlain and he did all those things that sound crazy today - well they also sounded crazy in his day - he's not some fictional 27ppg 12rpg in the modern era "at his best" character you've made up in your head.

In terms of team winning, nobody did it better than Bill Russell and I mean nobody. 11 titles in 13 seasons, 8 peat, repeated titles as a 35 y/o player coach, won 2 NCAA titles in three chances to do so and an Olympic Gold in his one chance to do so. Not even Kareem's team-accolade resume looks that good.

Wilt and Bill set the standard for the two ends of the spectrum that we all value and argue about today. Every other great player (and there are at least half a dozen other "GOAT" candidates) are all some blend of "in between" in terms of how one can individually dominate, or dominate via their team. How people rank them is entirely up to what little things they value in a player. Most of the time though, some stan will just come in and try and proclaim ONLY the things their player was gifted at are what's important, and if some other player was a better winner (like Bill Russell) "well winning is just a team accolade he had a lot of help" or if someone is more dominant (like Wilt) "well he has just two rings" and/or "adjust his stats to make him be less great!!!!!!!"

 

[sfgiants]

I'll give you a few (before he even won a title):

In 1988, Michael Jordan averaged 32.5 points per game (Higher than any of the seasons Lebron has played in the NBA),

8 assist per game (more than Lebron has ever averaged in a single season),

8 rebounds per game (more than Lebron has ever averaged in his previous 9 seasons)

2.9 steals per game (also more than Lebron has ever averaged in steals),

on 53.8% from the field (Though Lebron currently sits at 55.5 - Jordan's 53.8% is still higher than Lebron's previous 9 seasons). Not to mention Jordan's 85% free throwing shooting compared to Lebron's 73%.

That was an epic season done out of necessity, due to the fact that Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen had not yet come of age. Lebron doesn't have a season better than that, and that arguably isn't even Jordan's best season. With the aforementioned facts I've just supplied; it's safe to say, from a numerical perspective, Michael Jordan could do everything Lebron can do - at a higher rate within a 48 minute span. Thus making Jordan, presumably, the better basketball player.

Also, the year before...MJ won a Scoring title and a Defensive Player of the Year award in the same seaon. Making him not only the best offensive player in the game, but the best defensive player as well...has Lebron ever done that?

I won't touch Lebron's well-documented coronary issues.

 

[havoc]

The MJ stans are the worst but that doesn't take away anything that Mike once did in the NBA. MJ had an unstoppable fadeaway jumper, high basketball IQ, athleticism, durability, and strength. All these qualities made him the GOAT.

 

[Lakerman0834]

The MJ stans are the worst but that doesn't take away anything that Mike once did in the NBA. MJ had an unstoppable fadeaway jumper, high basketball IQ, athleticism, durability, and strength. All these qualities made him the GOAT.

hed like to have a word with you

 

[Luke Cage]

I'll give you a few (before he even won a title):

In 1988, Michael Jordan averaged 32.5 points per game (Higher than any of the seasons Lebron has played in the NBA),

8 assist per game (more than Lebron has ever averaged in a single season),

8 rebounds per game (more than Lebron has ever averaged in his previous 9 seasons)

2.9 steals per game (also more than Lebron has ever averaged in steals),

on 53.8% from the field (Though Lebron currently sits at 55.5 - Jordan's 53.8% is still higher than Lebron's previous 9 seasons). Not to mention Jordan's 85% free throwing shooting compared to Lebron's 73%.

That was an epic season done out of necessity, due to the fact that Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen had not yet come of age. Lebron doesn't have a season better than that, and that arguably isn't even Jordan's best season. With the aforementioned facts I've just supplied; it's safe to say, from a numerical perspective, Michael Jordan could do everything Lebron can do - at a higher rate within a 48 minute span. Thus making Jordan, presumably, the better basketball player.

Also, the year before...MJ won a Scoring title and a Defensive Player of the Year award in the same season. Making him not only the best offensive player in the game, but the best defensive player as well...has Lebron ever done that?

I won't touch Lebron's well-documented coronary issues.

basically defeated his whole argument.

 

[gho3st]

All wilt was missing is the championships....he had those, he'd be GOAT.

 

[Luke Cage]

Ok, so by that logic, no one will ever be able to touch Wilt. It's impossible to reach 50 ppg and 28 rpg in a season so therefore he's the GOAT? Right?

Let's completely ignore that teams were chucking bad shots as a habit during this period of time and that created more shooting opportunities for him and rebounding opportunities. Let's all pretend that Wilts scoring numbers aren't inflated at all.

keep in mind early in his career wilt played when dunking wasn't allowed. so those ppg's and that fg % came from low post moves and short range hook and jumpers.

give dwight and open gym with no other players on the court and he still wouldn't match that % without dunking.

 

[Goatpoacher]

MJ really was that good. He's the player who developed hype because he was that damn good. Even fans of teams who hated him will admit as much.

Lebron is surprising because he lived up to his hype and has exceeded it in unexpected ways. Lebron might prove himself to be superior to Jordan but that just has not happened yet. I do think Lebron is a far better total defender than Jordan ever was. JOrdan's speed and overall athleticism was slightly greater, even though he wasn't as strong.

There is nothing I'd rather see than Prime Jordan being defended by current Lebron. But I already know Jordan would rape him.

 

[RedBull]

I'll give you a few (before he even won a title):

In 1988, Michael Jordan averaged 32.5 points per game (Higher than any of the seasons Lebron has played in the NBA),

8 assist per game (more than Lebron has ever averaged in a single season),

8 rebounds per game (more than Lebron has ever averaged in his previous 9 seasons)

2.9 steals per game (also more than Lebron has ever averaged in steals),

on 53.8% from the field (Though Lebron currently sits at 55.5 - Jordan's 53.8% is still higher than Lebron's previous 9 seasons). Not to mention Jordan's 85% free throwing shooting compared to Lebron's 73%.

That was an epic season done out of necessity, due to the fact that Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen had not yet come of age. Lebron doesn't have a season better than that, and that arguably isn't even Jordan's best season. With the aforementioned facts I've just supplied; it's safe to say, from a numerical perspective, Michael Jordan could do everything Lebron can do - at a higher rate within a 48 minute span. Thus making Jordan, presumably, the better basketball player.

Also, the year before...MJ won a Scoring title and a Defensive Player of the Year award in the same season. Making him not only the best offensive player in the game, but the best defensive player as well...has Lebron ever done that?

I won't touch Lebron's well-documented coronary issues.

Retort? Anyone?

 

[RedBull]

MJ really was that good. He's the player who developed hype because he was that damn good. Even fans of teams who hated him will admit as much.

Lebron is surprising because he lived up to his hype and has exceeded it in unexpected ways. Lebron might prove himself to be superior to Jordan but that just has not happened yet. I do think Lebron is a far better total defender than Jordan ever was. JOrdan's speed and overall athleticism was slightly greater, even though he wasn't as strong.

There is nothing I'd rather see than Prime Jordan being defended by current Lebron. But I already know Jordan would rape him.

:..... "I'm not Kobe."

 

[dantheman9758]

keep in mind early in his career wilt played when dunking wasn't allowed. so those ppg's and that fg % came from low post moves and short range hook and jumpers.

give dwight and open gym with no other players on the court and he still wouldn't match that % without dunking.

Wilt was allowed to dunk his entire career, he was dunking on people since he was 14 - the no dunking thing was an NCAA rule during the Lew Alcindor/Elvin Hayes NCAA era, it wasn't part of Wilt's time in the NCAA, and there was never a "no-dunking" rule in the NBA.

*EDIT* I will say though, Wilt did not like to be known as a guy who just "overpowered and dunked on everyone" (an image Shaq would later embrace) - Wilt developed his fadeaways and turnaround jumpshots and fingerroll shots so that he could score with finesse not just power. He retired most of those shots in his final season, when he set the FG% record, when he did that most of his shots were dunks and layups (obviously). When he was doing 50 a game, he could score from everywhere on either side of the floor from every angle inside 15 feet. He was unguardable when he maintained his shooting touch.