Because Hillary's failures in the midwest lost her the election, Bernie's failures in the south lost him the primary.
They're not the same critiques due to the consequence of the outcomes.
Why do so many people on Twitter HATE Bernie?
- Thread starter goatmane
- Start date
They're not the same critiques due to the consequence of the outcomes.
You have to win the primary in order to have a chance at the presidency.
Do you not believe these issues won't matter this time?
30 to 80k votes in the midwest are probably easier to pick up than southern blacks.
Identifying the policies that have "moved" the party left is more important than just saying the party has moved left. The people that support things like the public option or medicare for all, $15 minimum wage, the Iran deal, and stricter regulations on banks aren't the ones complaining about bernie losing the election for Hillary.
That's the majority of democrats though. You're talking about the Nap types or Claude Taylors who still blame Bernie for Hillary. I don't think they hold much weight.
I don't believe I ever believed Bernie could beat Hillary because people don't vote based on a spreadsheet of policy preferences. People vote based on whether a politician appeals to them emotionally and whether they can trust the candidate with their vote. None are in play with Bernie OVER Hillary. This is not even a cop out: Hillary is the most powerful woman in America. Bill was adopted as "black" back in the 90s. There was nothing, nothing, Bernie was going to do to beat her among African American's on a national level. We're talking about 10/20 years of Hillary working side by side with marginal communities and being the face to black america of white america. So when you ask if it's an issue...an issue when? During the primary against Hillary - of course? One on one against a republican - hell no.
No politician outside of Barack has better polling numbers among black Americans. Wondering why Bernie couldn't tap into that is crazy. It's almost a non-sequitur because of how more credible Hillary is to the black community than any other white or black politician.
The issue with focusing on the primary is that it doesn't account for likability. By extension, this is why ranked choice voting is actually the best election method available. You need a poll for the idea you're trying to illustrate and the last time I checked (I'm being lazy now. You know I usually have the polls lol) I think Bernie has a better rating among black voters than whites. I also believe that his popularity among blacks is only second to Biden. To this point (and I know you're not arguing this) I don't understand how people aren't impressed by his numbers during the primary at all. Consider for a second that prior to announcing nobody but the most hardcore progressives knew about him. Consider for a second that he beat out every one else in the field based on his policy and wack personality alone. Look at it like this, let's say Bernie drops out early because of health issues, do you think anyone else in the democratic party would've garnered ANY level of support in the black community?
(By the way, I'm so glad I made my point without saying "the black vote in the south doesn't matter because you're going to lose the south either way. I'm proud of myself.)
Because in 2016 they didn't vet him and are mad because they're finally seeing who he always was
I think that's true. But I also think Hillary thought she could carry votes in NC, FLA and potentially GA. She didn't. She lost.
But on topic, I don't see a path to the primary without winning the southern black vote or or completely suppressing it.
Based on his stumping his campaign sees that as well. So. The question is, does he win enough of that vote against Kamala Harris, Booker, Biden, and Warren.
Because you're the only level headed person I can talk to about this......Bernie understands the odds are stacked against him because the 60% of the party that didn't like him in 2016 hates him now.I think that's true. But I also think Hillary thought she could carry votes in NC, FLA and potentially GA. She didn't. She lost.
But on topic, I don't see a path to the primary without winning the southern black vote or or completely suppressing it.
Based on his stumping his campaign sees that as well. So. The question is, does he win enough of that vote against Kamala Harris, Booker, Biden, and Warren.
I do think Bernie is running to win. I don't think he's running to lose just to say he ran. Biden, Booker, and Harris are fighting for the same voters. Look at it this way, of the 60% that didn't vote for Bernie last time, maybe 10/15% max would vote for him ever. The rest are #neversanders squad. What they want out of Bernie rhetorically they don't demand from their own people, so it's ridiculous to even try to reach them through the same approach. You have to win by bringing out the 100million people that did not participate in 2016. If you're not trying to build on your 40% by adding on a new 20% you've not only lost the primary, but you've lost any hope of a progressive movement.
However I think this time around his campaign game is going to focus more on trade.
What I don't think people foresee is him rocking the shyt out of candidates on foreign policy. If he lands that right it's a problem for centrist.
But let's be clear, the entire slate of candidates is running on his healthcare platform and minimum wage ideas. We've already won.
And Warren is going to completely body everyone else regarding banking and financial institutions. Honestly, I wouldn't want to be on a stage between the 2 of them. Look at it this way, if you come out to the right of Bernie on healthcare you're going to anger 40% of the base. If you come out to the right of Warren on banking, you're going to anger 40% of the base and more. I can easily envision a scenario where candidates get up there and OVER promise and look stupid, or UNDER promise and look stupid.
What I don't think people foresee is him rocking the shyt out of candidates on foreign policy. If he lands that right it's a problem for centrist.
But let's be clear, the entire slate of candidates is running on his healthcare platform and minimum wage ideas. We've already won.
And Warren is going to completely body everyone else regarding banking and financial institutions. Honestly, I wouldn't want to be on a stage between the 2 of them. Look at it this way, if you come out to the right of Bernie on healthcare you're going to anger 40% of the base. If you come out to the right of Warren on banking, you're going to anger 40% of the base and more. I can easily envision a scenario where candidates get up there and OVER promise and look stupid, or UNDER promise and look stupid.
does nap realize noone on this forum likes him or reads his shyt?
ill
Superstar
B
Bernie would have won.
Bernie would have won.
I agree. I think he's running to win. And I Warren is running on a very strong ideological campaign, but everything she's put out there so far "makes sense" and she has nothing to lose from a political standpoint.
I'm personally not moved by Harris nor Biden, so I'm excited to see the policy proposals that come out. Especially since presidents unlike congressman can't run as a check on Trump.
I'm really hopeful thay 20/20 presents a complete change from the status quo and presents policy that helps people, not just the wealthy or businesses.
the next guy
Superstar
establishment hacks. Also, offical suburb blacks who are married to non black people as well. They're mad trump says mean things and don't want any change to the actually structural problems that premate the country because then they'll lose their ability to climb to or maintain their social status in the elite.