Why do you hate Kobe Bryant?

[Newzz]

How is it best to forget about the entire process of getting to the finals?

Because obviously you dont remember Kobe Bryant dominating the WCFs en route to the Finals.

 

[Swagnificent]

I said eFG was a part of it when comparing the players we were talking about. So is field goal percentage. TS is the most telling in the end. But it's worth being informed about all three before a conclusion is made. If one player has a higher FG, eFG and TS, he more efficient by every measure we have.

For you to say peak doesn't matter means you want to take context out of it. I'm not talking about who had the best overall career. I'm talking about who was the better player. Over the course of years, a 1.4 difference in TS and 2-3 percent difference during 4-5 peak years is substantial and confirms that one of them took better shots, given that the talent was close.

So having a better 5 year run in a 17 year career makes you better? Don't get that logic at all. If short spurts meant anything then we'd all have T-Mac in our top 5.

Jordan is better than Kobe by any measure we use. However, that gap isn't SUBSTANTIAL. Yes Jordan scored more efficiently but that comes out to 1.4% over 17 years and more games played by Kobe.

And if Kobe takes as many bad shots as you say and Jordan was much wiser, then the slight difference in scoring efficiency proves Kobe was MORE talented since he was almost the same while taking alot more bad shots. All your proving is that if Kobe restrained himself like Jordan, he would've been more efficient.

 

[Swagnificent]

How is it best to forget about the entire process of getting to the finals?

Because if there was such a thing as playoff MVP, Kobe would've gotten it in 2001 over Shaq. He played better against in the Western Conference playoff run than Shaq when the real title was decided. Shaq just feasted on the 76ers in the finals.

Look back at the 2001 Western Conference Playoffs. Kobe was dropping 35/7/7 every game with Shaq calling him the best player in the world. Kobe raped the Spurs so badly that year it caused Popovich to get Bruce Bowen just to try and contain Kobe.

 

[MustafaSTL]

How is it best to forget about the entire process of getting to the finals?

I'm not saying you need to. But everybody's argument when they say Kobe was a sidekick during the 3 peat was because Shaq was dominant in the Finals. Kobe was the better player, or at the very least equal to Shaq, during the regular season and first 3 playoff rounds (at least in 2001 and 2002). If your argument is that Kobe was a sidekick, you should not bring the whole season into it. It severely hurts the argument you're trying to make. Your best argument is because Shaq was the Finals MVP and all of that.

 

[Jram]

So having a better 5 year run in a 17 year career makes you better? Don't get that logic at all. If short spurts meant anything then we'd all have T-Mac in our top 5.

Jordan is better than Kobe by any measure we use. However, that gap isn't SUBSTANTIAL. Yes Jordan scored more efficiently but that comes out to 1.4% over 17 years and more games played by Kobe.

And if Kobe takes as many bad shots as you say and Jordan was much wiser, then the slight difference in scoring efficiency proves Kobe was MORE talented since he was almost the same while taking alot more bad shots. All your proving is that if Kobe restrained himself like Jordan, he would've been more efficient.

Oh, Kobe might very well be as or more talented. That's not my argument. Someone can be better than someone else without more actual talent. So that's not even something I'm running from.

My point was Jordan was more efficient. And that's a fact. To me, someone who has a substantially better peak and holds a 1.4 advantage is a fair distance.

We're still talking about two of the top 15 players ever, so obviously the gap can only be that big.

The T-Mac thing is going too far. T-Mac's peak wasn't on anything that close to top five. He TS'd 56 once and had a PER of 30 once and never got really close again.

 

[Malik]

Because if there was such a thing as playoff MVP, Kobe would've gotten it in 2001 over Shaq. He played better against in the Western Conference playoff run than Shaq when the real title was decided. Shaq just feasted on the 76ers in the finals.

Look back at the 2001 Western Conference Playoffs. Kobe was dropping 35/7/7 every game with Shaq calling him the best player in the world. Kobe raped the Spurs so badly that year it caused Popovich to get Bruce Bowen just to try and contain Kobe.

If Pau Gasol had numbers like that, we wouldn't hear the end of it...

 

[Lucky_Lefty]

1) chasing off Shaq and was not grateful at all for having had one of the best centers of all time to play with (so Shaq wasn't yelling at Dr. Buss talmbout "PAY ME!!!"
2) copying Jordan (how the fukk do you expect to be great if you don't study greatness?? LOOK AT THE GAME TAPE!!)
3) downplaying Fischer's role as captain (locker room leader...)
4) downplaying Gasol's stardom (Gasol's a star? Stars don't get swept outta playoff series)
5) Rapist (sometimes you just gotta pull it out and let fate take over)
6) very uncomfortable in his own skin
7) Extremely selfish chucker (you must really hate AI then?)
8) Snitched on and threw his own teammates under the bus many times (u say threw under the bus, I say motivation tactics)
9) Overrated by his fans and put into a unwarranted category (this definitely could apply to STD Wade if you wanna make comparisons)
10) Overall unlikable personalty (most GOATs are a$$holes)

 

[Jram]

@Lucky_Lefty You really think people overrate Wade? He rarely gets puts in the same air as Kobe despite better production. He's underrated. And if people are stanning for him, it's an extreme minority.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

I used to hate Kobe because as a youngin' I bought into all hype about him being a selfish prick and ruining the Lakers; kicking Shaq out of town, etc.. PLUS.. as a Celtics fan I have no love for the Lakers to begin with.

As time progressed, I learned more and more about how Shaq is also a prick. He just hid it better back then. As an adult, I don't care about things like who is a prick or who isn't. It doesn't really matter.

I have a lot of respect for Kobe now. It's still fukk the Lakers all day but I respect Kobe always telling it like it is and embracing the hate. I respect him not being involved in all that extra corny shyt like you'd see out of Dwight..

 

[Jram]

If Pau Gasol had numbers like that, we wouldn't hear the end of it...

@Swagnificent,

In the 2001 playoffs, Kobe has a 55 true shooting percentage (48.4 eFG) and a 24.5 player efficiency rating.

Shaq had a 30 PER and a 57 TS.

In other words, your reaching.

 

[GreatestLaker]

Can someone post Shaq and Kobe's numbers for every series they played in from 00 to 02?

 

[Ronnie Lott]

Ok, so thus far its:

1. His fans/stans
2. Cuz Jordan was they favorite player and hated the hype he got before even turning 19.
3. He raped that girl.
4. Remakes aren't as good as originals.(Copied Jordan)
5. He's overrated.
6. His style of play.
7. He seems like the type of nikka that'll call the feds over loud music.
8. He ain't bout that life.
9. Chased off Shaq and wasn't grateful for playing with a center of his caliber.
10. Downplayed Fisher's role as captain
11. Downplayed Gasol's stardom
12. Very uncomfortable in his own skin
13. Snitched on Shaq, threw his teammates under the bus countless times
14. Overall unlikable personality
15. Had the ugliest shoes of any elite player in NBA history.

Anything else?

Nyggaz can hate Kobe all they want, but what can't be disputed is Kobes 5 rings. And at age 34 Kobe still balls the fucc out. Those are facts Kobe has done some fuccboy shyt in his career, but the bottom line is dude is a killer out there on the court

 

[Newzz]

@GreatestLaker.....You know I was already on it breh. I got you


1997-2000 Kobe was definitely a sidekick. BUT, from 2001-2004, Kobe and Shaq were equals.

And for yall either too young, or too much of a hater, to remember Kobe dominated the Lakers runs through the playoffs as the #1 option up until they got to the NBA Finals when Shaq then took over.


2001 NBA Playoffs
1st Round vs Trail Blazers: Shaq averaged 27 ppg and Kobe averaged 25 ppg
2nd Round vs Kings: Kobe averaged 35 ppg and Shaq averaged 33 ppg
WCF vs Spurs: Kobe averaged 33 ppg and Shaq averaged 27 ppg

2002 NBA Playoffs
1st Round vs Trail Blazers: Kobe averaged 26 ppg and Shaq averaged 25.7 ppg
2nd Round vs Spurs: Kobe averaged 26.2 ppg and Shaq averaged 21.4 ppg
WCF vs Kings: Shaq averaged 30.3 ppg and Kobe averaged 27.1 ppg

2003 NBA Playoffs
1st Round vs Timberwolves: Kobe averaged 31.8 ppg and Shaq averaged 28.7 ppg
2nd Round vs Spurs: Kobe averaged 32.3 ppg and Shaq averaged 25.3 ppg

2004 NBA Playoffs
1st Round vs Rockets: Kobe averaged 24.2 ppg and Shaq averaged 16.2 ppg
2nd Round vs Spurs: Kobe averaged 26.2 ppg and Shaq averaged 22.5 ppg
WCFs vs Timberwolves: Kobe averaged 24.3 ppg and Shaq averaged 20.7 ppg


Out of the 11 Western Conference playoff series' they played together from 2001 until their last year in 2004, Kobe led the team in scoring in 9 of em.


Kobe was not a sidekick after their 1st championship they won together in 2000.

 

[Street Knowledge]

@GreatestLaker.....You know I was already on it breh. I got you


1997-2000 Kobe was definitely a sidekick. BUT, from 2001-2004, Kobe and Shaq were equals.

And for yall either too young, or too much of a hater, to remember Kobe dominated the Lakers runs through the playoffs as the #1 option up until they got to the NBA Finals when Shaq then took over.


2001 NBA Playoffs
1st Round vs Trail Blazers: Shaq averaged 27 ppg and Kobe averaged 25 ppg
2nd Round vs Kings: Kobe averaged 35 ppg and Shaq averaged 33 ppg
WCF vs Spurs: Kobe averaged 33 ppg and Shaq averaged 27 ppg

2002 NBA Playoffs
1st Round vs Trail Blazers: Kobe averaged 26 ppg and Shaq averaged 25.7 ppg
2nd Round vs Spurs: Kobe averaged 26.2 ppg and Shaq averaged 21.4 ppg
WCF vs Kings: Shaq averaged 30.3 ppg and Kobe averaged 27.1 ppg

2003 NBA Playoffs
1st Round vs Timberwolves: Kobe averaged 31.8 ppg and Shaq averaged 28.7 ppg
2nd Round vs Spurs: Kobe averaged 32.3 ppg and Shaq averaged 25.3 ppg

2004 NBA Playoffs
1st Round vs Rockets: Kobe averaged 24.2 ppg and Shaq averaged 16.2 ppg
2nd Round vs Spurs: Kobe averaged 26.2 ppg and Shaq averaged 22.5 ppg
WCFs vs Timberwolves: Kobe averaged 24.3 ppg and Shaq averaged 20.7 ppg


Out of the 11 Western Conference playoff series' they played together from 2001 until their last year in 2004, Kobe led the team in scoring in 9 of em.


Kobe was not a sidekick after their 1st championship they won together in 2000.

Then you factor in Kobe's 4th quarter dominance where it was his show I don't see how anyone could say he was a sidekick.

2002 Spurs

2002 NBA Western Conference Semifinals | Basketball-Reference.com

Kobe averaged 9.2 ppg on 64% shooting in fourth quarters. Shaq averaged 4.5 ppg on 29%.

2002 Kings

2002 NBA Western Conference Finals | Basketball-Reference.com

Kobe averaged 8.6 on 43% from the field in the 4th, Shaq 5.4 on 31% from the field.

2002 Nets

Kobe averaged 8.8 PPG on 63% from the field

USATODAY.com - Bryant's heroics, deference pay off for Lakers

 

[GreatestLaker]

@GreatestLaker.....You know I was already on it breh. I got you


1997-2000 Kobe was definitely a sidekick. BUT, from 2001-2004, Kobe and Shaq were equals.

And for yall either too young, or too much of a hater, to remember Kobe dominated the Lakers runs through the playoffs as the #1 option up until they got to the NBA Finals when Shaq then took over.


2001 NBA Playoffs
1st Round vs Trail Blazers: Shaq averaged 27 ppg and Kobe averaged 25 ppg
2nd Round vs Kings: Kobe averaged 35 ppg and Shaq averaged 33 ppg
WCF vs Spurs: Kobe averaged 33 ppg and Shaq averaged 27 ppg

2002 NBA Playoffs
1st Round vs Trail Blazers: Kobe averaged 26 ppg and Shaq averaged 25.7 ppg
2nd Round vs Spurs: Kobe averaged 26.2 ppg and Shaq averaged 21.4 ppg
WCF vs Kings: Shaq averaged 30.3 ppg and Kobe averaged 27.1 ppg

2003 NBA Playoffs
1st Round vs Timberwolves: Kobe averaged 31.8 ppg and Shaq averaged 28.7 ppg
2nd Round vs Spurs: Kobe averaged 32.3 ppg and Shaq averaged 25.3 ppg

2004 NBA Playoffs
1st Round vs Rockets: Kobe averaged 24.2 ppg and Shaq averaged 16.2 ppg
2nd Round vs Spurs: Kobe averaged 26.2 ppg and Shaq averaged 22.5 ppg
WCFs vs Timberwolves: Kobe averaged 24.3 ppg and Shaq averaged 20.7 ppg


Out of the 11 Western Conference playoff series' they played together from 2001 until their last year in 2004, Kobe led the team in scoring in 9 of em.


Kobe was not a sidekick after their 1st championship they won together in 2000.

What's a sidekick? Like what Robin was to batman? Shaq was obviously the better player, but Kobe was much more than a Robin in 01 and 02. I would say its more like Superman and Batman. Superman is obviously the better of the two, but no one in their right mind would call batman a sidekick.