why does larry bird have zero 40pt finals games?

[JJ Lions]

Bird won his two Finals MVPs in his two best closing playoff series. But two series by themselves don't define a career. Imagine how Bron would be regarded if, say, 2012 and 2020 were his only Finals wins and he hadn't even really gone down fighting but played like shyt in losing the other years.

I'd say 1986 was Bird's best closing series. And he wasn't even the leading scorer, he averaged 24ppg while McHale averaged 26ppg. Bird was on a fukking stacked team (Bird-McHale-Parish-DJ all HOFers in their prime with their 5th starter Danny Ainge a couple years away from an All-Star berth and their 6th man Bill Walton being another HOFer and 6th-Man of the Year), playing against a team led by 2nd-year Hakeem and 3rd-year Sampson as their only two players who EVER made a single all-star team. With that massive talent difference, the difficulty level was set on easy. Hakeem was double or triple-teamed virtually every time he touched the ball while Bird faced single-covered the entire series and still only averaged 24ppg. He had 25 points on 10-26 shooting and 17 points on 6-13 shooting in the two losses, 21 points on 9-17 shooting in a Game 4 that they barely won by 3 to take a 3-1 series lead, and then 29 points on 8-17 shooting in the closeout win. Those aren't dominant scoring games at all.


In 1984 Bird played well too, but never would have even had a chance to win if Magic hadn't choked at the close of every Celtic win. In Game 7 Bird only managed 20 points on 6-18 shooting, but still backed into the Finals MVP on his teammates stepping up, the Celtics going to the line 51 times, and Magic choking yet again.






Those are his ONLY two years where he ended by "dominating" the competition, and both are kinda weak. The fact that those are his two biggest highlights, and his other 11 seasons all ended ugly (not just with his teammates not stepping up or a strong team outplaying them, but Bird straight playing bad) is a serious knock against him in my book.

You’re doing a lot of cherry picking of games trying to define him, instead of taking them all. Steph is considered the greatest shooter in the game today by many, it’s why I used him for comparison. Bird still shoots higher than him in the Playoffs, Steph only averaged 1 bucket more as far as points in an era with a lot more scoring. Bird still has 2 finals MVPs. You introduce a lot of ‘buts’ Steph is shorter, Magic choked etc. Doesn’t change the reality.

You say 2 series don’t define a career but then try to do exactly that with the Rockets and Lakers example. Didn’t even get into his league MVPs where he won 3 in a row. There is a reason he’s on most top 10 of all time lists. Didn’t even touch on the other things besides scoring

 

[wtfyomom]

Hes an overated cac, Larry Bird slow as fukk could never play in todays game

 

[CP3.]

Hes an overated cac, Larry Bird slow as fukk could never play in todays game

Have you seen who the MVP is this year?

 

[wtfyomom]

You’re doing a lot of cherry picking of games trying to define him, instead of taking them all. Steph is considered the greatest shooter in the game today by many, it’s why I used him for comparison. Bird still shoots higher than him in the Playoffs, Steph only averaged 1 bucket more as far as points in an era with a lot more scoring. Bird still has 2 finals MVPs. You introduce a lot of ‘buts’ Steph is shorter, Magic choked etc. Doesn’t change the reality.

You say 2 series don’t define a career but then try to do exactly that with the Rockets and Lakers example. Didn’t even get into his league MVPs where he won 3 in a row. There is a reason he’s on most top 10 of all time lists. Didn’t even touch on the other things besides scoring

reason why hes on most top ten is cause hes a cac

 

[wtfyomom]

Have you seen who the MVP is this year?

saw him get swept out the playoffs

 

[SadimirPutin]

Its funny

The capes flap for bird in ways that yall would never do for some of these modern guys

 

[Absolut da poet ®]

Kevin Mchale ?!?

 

[Jplaya2023]

saw him get swept out the playoffs

What did that have to do with the regular season. You dudes expose yourselves everyday

 

[ISO]

That energy is never kept apply the same energy y’all have for the modern players for them old players. The truth is Bird’s numbers dropped in playoff settings and against tough defenses. His teams were stacked and he didn’t have to be the leading scorer to win.

The fact is Larry Bird had limitations as an on-ball scorer. His handle was mediocre, his first step was below average, he had poor explosion and lift and missed bunnies at the basket just a mediocre slasher. He had an off-ball game, post up game, physical quick hitting game, great shooter especially mid-range, great passer, he had all the tricks on the ground with the ball fakes and jabs.

Even though he was one of the best three point shooters in his era it wasn’t used enough his volume was too low, he also played with McHale who outscored him in several series who was a black hole unstoppable low post scorer in that era.

Growing up they talked about this cac like he was god. Something changed in the NBA media where today’s athlete is overly-critiqued and showered with hot takes you better not lose. It seems like the NBA protected the integrity of its great players and legends then. You’d never know about these Bird performances and would think he was the clutches mf ever based on how he was talked about.

 

[Remote]

Start with: why is scoring 40 even a barometer at all?
Every time a player needs to score 40 points in a game, it is a result of that player's teammates not playing well (offensively or defensively).

Even now with what Giannis is doing in these playoffs, the reason he's forced to score 40 points is because the Bucks offense is Giannis and Middleton. There's not a lot of offensive help so those guys HAVE to assume that responsibility and usage.

Those 80s Celtics teams did not need Larry to score 40 a night.
This board loves these individual achievements and at the same time can't understand why certain players who are excellent on their own don't have team success. Well, those things are typically on the opposite sides of the spectrum -- to a degree, anyway.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

You’re doing a lot of cherry picking of games trying to define him, instead of taking them all. Steph is considered the greatest shooter in the game today by many, it’s why I used him for comparison. Bird still shoots higher than him in the Playoffs, Steph only averaged 1 bucket more as far as points in an era with a lot more scoring.

The problem with your argument is that EVERYTHING I bolded is false.


It is false that Bird shoots higher than Steph in the playoffs. Steph shot significantly better than Bird on 2pt, on 3pt, and on eFG%. Your refusal to acknowledge that is ridiculous.

It is also false that Steph's era has had a lot more scoring than Bird's era. The average pace and score across Bird's prime was higher than the average pace and score across Steph's prime, and the average pace and score of Bird's teams was even higher than that. Your claim is explicitly false.

It is also just plain silly to call nearly 3ppg greater "just one bucket".

And finally, you are ignoring that Steph HAS underperformed in the playoffs. By quite a lot. And still doesn't have nearly the playoff failures that Bird did.


So in conclusion, Steph has often been disappointing in the playoffs....and yet has still shot much better, scored much more, and failed much less often than Bird, despite playing at a slower pace in a lower-scoring era.

 

[South Paw]

saw him get swept out the playoffs

Lots of great players been swept

 

[South Paw]

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Those 80s Celtics teams did not need Larry to score 40 a night.

Did they not need him to score 40 or at least an efficient 30+ in a lot of those key losses though? I don't get how folk are repeatedly saying, "Bird's teams were so stacked they didn't need him to score!" while ignoring, you know, all those losses.



Here's no cherry-picking, I'll list EVERY season

1980: Lost in the ECF with Bird only averaging 22ppg in the series and 12 points on 5-19 shooting in the decisive Game 5. Didn't they need him to score more?

1981: Won in the Finals despite Bird only averaging 15ppg and scoring 8, 8, and 12 in Games 3-5. Do you think he was "trying" to shoot 3-11, 3-11, and 5-16 in those games? Or did he win just because he was surrounded by HOF talent while his opponent was a 40-42 team that sucked ass?

1982: Lost in the ECF with Bird only averaging 18ppg in the series and 20 points on 7-18 shooting in the decisive Game 4. Didn't they need him to score more?

1983: Lost in the ECSF with Bird only averaging 19ppg in the series and 18 points on 9-20 shooting in the decisive Game 7. Didn't they need him to score more?

1984: Generally scored well (not GOAT-level) in the Finals, averaging 27ppg. But only had 20 points on 6-18 shooting in the decisive Game 7. Was he purposely shooting like shyt cause he knew his team could win without him? Or did he get lucky that the refs sent his team to the line 50+ times and Magic choked?

1985: Lost in the Finals with Bird averaging 24ppg in the series and 28 points on 12-29 shooting in the decisive Game 6. Didn't they need him to score more?

1986: Bird averaged 24ppg in the Finals and had 29 points on 8-17 shooting in the decisive game. Usually wouldn't be considered GOAT-level, but they won anyway cause they had one of the most stacked teams of all-time against a badly outmatched opponent.

1987: Bird averaged 24ppg in the Finals and just 16 points on 6-16 shooting in the decisive Game 6. Didn't they need him to score more?

1988: Bird averaged just under 20ppg in the ECF and just 16 points on 4-17 shooting in the decisive Game 6. Didn't they need him to score more?

1990: Bird averaged 24ppg in the 1st round, including 31 points on 11-25 shooting in the decisive Game 5. Didn't they need him to score more?

1991: Bird averaged 13ppg in the ECSF, including 12 points on 4-14 shooting in the decisive Game 5. Didn't they need him to score more?

1992: Bird averaged 11ppg in the ECSF, including 12 points on 6-9 shooting in the decisive Game 7. Didn't they need him to score more?



Bird has NEVER averaged more than 27ppg in a closing series in his entire career. Only once did he even average more than 24 ppg. Half the time he averaged less than 20ppg. 9 out of 12 times they lost as a result, and even in 2 of the 3 Finals he won, he shot like shyt and scored poorly in the biggest games. And that's supposed to be a GOAT-level scorer?


That is EVERY closing series in Bird's career. In 11 out of 12, he CLEARLY did not score at a GOAT level and should have scored more, yet let his team down in the most critical games. How is that even debatable?

 

[JYoung24]

I know how we can settle the question of whether @Rhakim 's evaluation of Larry Bird is irrational hate or not. You need to tell us this breh:

Do you agree that everything you said in your argument about Bird not being all that and mainly being successful due to being on stacked teams but coming up short and being exposed when he's not on a team with way more talent applies equally if not even more to one Wardell Stephen Curry II?

Your answer will determine the quality of your hate for Larry Legend.

no curry balls in the playoffs and the finals