Why Doesnt Jack Johnson Get The Props That Muhammad Ali Gets?

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

im talking about today, why ali is still relevant and johnson is not today. it is due to tv. i am not talking about how important they were in the past, breh.

ive watched old jack johnson fights & docs thru tv & the net, same way i watched old muhammd ali fights & docs.

if its real-time tv that youre referring to, then thats neither here nor there. cuz unless youre like 45 or up, you werent around for that ride, same way you werent around for jack johnson.

what it REALLY comes down to is that we're conditioned to have certain starting points. the same way basketball fans disregard anything before magic & bird. same way majority of this hip-hop board draws blanks concerning stuff before ''94, etc.

 

[GSR]

Jack Johnson is one of my heroes.

 

[filial_piety]

Why? Because they are just TOO far removed from modern day sports.

J. Jackson was sort of like Jim Thorpe...in that era they were THE best, but they were also BEFORE even my grandparents time. And even my great great grandparents were just little kids when they were playing.

Jack Johnson and Jim Thorpe were household name celebrities comparable to Michael Jordan and Tom Brady of this day and age....but anyone who remembers them when they were that big are long and dead gone; but then again, you could say the same about Babe Ruth

SO I'm not so sure as to why Jack Johnson isn't more of a household name than say someone like Ali....

I don't know if it's because of TV and the fact that he is much more of a recent Athlete...because arguably...Ali is much more recent than Jack Johnson, AND Babe Ruth, but you I wouldn't say he was more popular than Babe Ruth, considering Babe Ruth played baseball before TV was out.

 

[filial_piety]

by being on tv, ali was involved in other pop cultural shows that made him relevant to non-boxing fans. when you say the greatest, even non-boxers will think ali because they have been exposed to him directly or indirectly when mentioned or referenced on some kind of tv show.

a pre-tv athlete is probably going to be best understood by fans of the sport. neutral observers wont know what to think one way or the other because even casually knowing a pre-tv athlete requires more effort and interest than a non-fan would have, naturally. he was probably just a famous, troublesome negro to non boxing fans in his day with no understanding of how knowledgeable boxing fans viewed his talent.

another thing, tv did a great job of selling his opponents as important characters themselves. frazier as the non-flashy negro that whites could root for, foreman as the mean giant, etc. nobody today cares about the cacs johnson fought because they are not packaged for consumption on tv.

Interesting comment.

But purely from a celebrity/pop culture POV....would you say that Ali is more popular than say Babe Ruth?

Consider the fact that Ruth was also before the advent of the TV.

I wouldn't say one is more popular than the other, and I think that speaks volumes about Ruth given the fact that his popularity was basically 50 years before Ali's.

So my question is, why are Ali, and Ruth equal in their celebrity status today....but Jack Johnson is not?

You can basically ask anyone who Babe Ruth is...even today...and they'd know him both by name, his team and his sport without hesitating or blinking. Same is true for Ali...but why not Jack Johnson?

 

[NZA]

Interesting comment.

But purely from a celebrity/pop culture POV....would you say that Ali is more popular than say Babe Ruth?

Consider the fact that Ruth was also before the advent of the TV.

I wouldn't say one is more popular than the other, and I think that speaks volumes about Ruth given the fact that his popularity was basically 50 years before Ali's.

So my question is, why are Ali, and Ruth equal in their celebrity status today....but Jack Johnson is not?

You can basically ask anyone who Babe Ruth is...even today...and they'd know him both by name, his team and his sport without hesitating or blinking. Same is true for Ali...but why not Jack Johnson?

ali is definitely more famous than babe ruth. the average person knows more about ali than babe. most people cant name one quote from babe, but they know about "float like a butterfly".

babe is more famous than johnson. that could be due to anything, including the growth in popularity of baseball and the decline of boxing. it can also be the fact that baseball has a very active league that promotes its history better than boxing.

 

[DrX]

The Original #1 Stunna

and he had a gold grill

 

[NZA]

ive watched old jack johnson fights & docs thru tv & the net, same way i watched old muhammd ali fights & docs.

if its real-time tv that youre referring to, then thats neither here nor there. cuz unless youre like 45 or up, you werent around for that ride, same way you werent around for jack johnson.

what it REALLY comes down to is that we're conditioned to have certain starting points. the same way basketball fans disregard anything before magic & bird. same way majority of this hip-hop board draws blanks concerning stuff before ''94, etc.

i mean tv keeps a narrative alive. from people old enough to watch him to people today watching floyd call himself TBE which brings ali into the discussion. movies and tv shows referencing him and his televised footage of rope a dope, his controversial political interviews, funny times with cosell, etc. in many ways, tv helped keep him relevant to pop culture. you are conditioned by starting points that are easily seen on tv and in a post modern way, seeing them get remixed and refreshed for new contexts as time goes on. jack johnson cant benefit as much from this as ali.

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

i mean tv keeps a narrative alive. from people old enough to watch him to people today watching floyd call himself TBE which brings ali into the discussion. movies and tv shows referencing him and his televised footage of rope a dope, his controversial political interviews, funny times with cosell, etc. in many ways, tv helped keep him relevant to pop culture. you are conditioned by starting points that are easily seen on tv and in a post modern way, seeing them get remixed and refreshed for new contexts as time goes on. jack johnson cant benefit as much from this as ali.

jack johnson has plenty of clips to work with breh.

if they chose not to run Ali's clips into the ground, the vast majority of people calling him goat that didnt witness his run, wouldnt even consider him.

 

[NZA]

jack johnson as plenty of clips to work with breh.

clips were not a major part of how he spread his fame in his time, so when tv matured, there was no real interest in adding him to the mix. tv clips on the otherhand, are inseparable from ali. the timing really mattered.

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

clips were not a major part of how he spread his fame in his time, so when tv matured, there was no real interest in adding him to the mix. tv clips on the otherhand, are inseparable from ali. the timing really mattered.

youre proving my point.

its not of the interest of whom?

 

[NZA]

youre proving my point.

its not of the interest of whom?

the generation that watched him and the generation of fighters that idolized him before they went pro

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

the generation that watched him and the generation of fighters that idolized him before they went pro

theyre all grandpas & great-grandpas now. some of the older ones that are still kickin, dont even know how to properly handle a remote control.

why are they still feeding muhammad ali in this manner to people that are 35 & under? ali & jack are all old news at this point. its fair game, wouldnt you say?

people under the age of 40 arent getting nostalgic butterflies over ali & cossell sitdowns.

 

[GPBear]

because he was beating dudes that fought like this

2) He caused a lot more sexual tension than Ali, whereas Ali caused political tensions which is more admirable in the long run.

3) Racist white people before WWII snuffed him out of history. Winners write the history books, and black men definitely weren't the winners of the 20th century.

 

[NZA]

theyre all grandpas & great-grandpas now. some of the older ones that are still kickin, dont even know how to properly handle a remote control.

why are they still feeding muhammad ali in this manner to people that are 35 & under? ali & jack are all old news at this point. its fair game, wouldnt you say?

people under the age of 40 arent getting nostalgic butterflies over ali & cossell sitdowns.

when generation x completely removes boomers from the power seat in media, we will probably see boxers from the 80s being placed on the highest pedestal, but not really heavyweights. ali's era will probably remain seen as the peak for the HW division until some unkown point in the distant future when it improves, but most fan interest will probably be on smaller fighters going forward.

ali and jack are not on any equal footing. what's done is done. jack is simply never going to matter much to the general public today or in the future. people under 40 will still repeat that ali is the greatest whether they can explain why or not. you can ask most people under 40 about jack johnson and they are probably going to think you are talking about music. a google search shows that the very first result is the singer, not the boxer. the boxer only shows up once on the first results page. meanwhile, i google "greatest of all time" and ali, lebron, and jordan show up by name.

 

[filial_piety]

ali is definitely more famous than babe ruth. the average person knows more about ali than babe. most people cant name one quote from babe, but they know about "float like a butterfly".

babe is more famous than johnson. that could be due to anything, including the growth in popularity of baseball and the decline of boxing. it can also be the fact that baseball has a very active league that promotes its history better than boxing.

Disagree. I'd say popularity wise, they are about equal. I don't think you'll find one person out there who doesn't know either one of the two. I think the only thing that Ali may have over Ruth is that Ali is probably more internationally known by a long shot in comparison. Also, you point to an Ali quotable, but everyone knows the gesture of going up to the plate and pointing the bat into the bleachers, signifying that your going to hit a home run...that's a Babe Ruth signature move.

But I think you may be on something to simple promotion. Baseball media, has simply recycled Babe's legacy for decades. It's a seasonal sport, so I think promotions have to be strong for a specific time in the year; so they consistently remind us of the history year after year of it having a "pass time" legacy with guys like Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle etc etc.