Why is EPMDs influence on Hip Hop so slept on?

[Art Barr]

Anybody over the age of 35 has respect for EPMD and acknowledges their impact on the game in the late 80's early 90's.

They don't have the tracks that translated into the modern landscape like NWA and PE did, but at that time they were fairly close to those groups, and on par with LL/Salt n Pepa/BDP

Erick Sermon is a top 20 producer no matter how you cut it. Lyrics were decent but hurt them when it comes to revisiting the tracks now. You can see how much further advanced Redman was on the tracks they did together.

PMd and Erick sermon for that golden era to styles war based era were really dope lyrically.
They were not able to adjust to the technical revolution ushered in by nas. Plus, feel prey to that time before nas sold out.
Which was a real cultural renaissance was occurring.
where corrosive business practices being made public ruined you as a draw.
By the construct culturally of what hiphop is inherently at its core.
which is a prescient culture based upon having knowledge of self while being of an impoverished background. So you are not preyed upon like previous generations from social to business in your daily life.
So, for pmd to do what he did to essentially a guy he marketed as his greatest friend.
then throwing it in their face behind and on frontstreet when confronted..is one of the most despicable acts in rap history. Plus, the fact it shows the element of the street.
where if you do what pmd did. It would result in the realistic response Erick sermon was kinda forced into doing via pmd's narcissism. So, the entire situation is one that is so extreme but makes so much relative sense.
to socially being immersed in poverty.
Plus simple society and relating to another human being.
That it creates this veil that makes it hard to remove in the discussion of epmd. Which is actually a really general but deep conversation that encompasses everything from social dysfunction to culture. Including just being human and how it relates to that time period and era as well.


Art Barr

 

[Art Barr]

"Don't try to compare us to Another Bad Little Fad"

They were the sylk tymes leather JD biter base formula meets the kid group. Which worked cause JD was a spoiled kid of a rap promoter with no cultural identity at the time, himself.


Art Barr

 

[smokeurobinson]

I've always meant to get their music into my library, but idk man I've never made it a point to do it because of the fact that this nikka got robbed by his own homie and then squashed it lmao nikka what

Thats actually fair game because they broke up in 92 and by 96 Redman was still taking shot at P like he was a herb on the Superman Lover pt 3 track



The door opened, I snatched him up for no reason
Gave him a two piece with a biscuit, laid him out
Oh shyt, it was that nikka Parrish Smith!




Cant have Redman talking sideways 4 years later and then when interviewed about it act like it wasnt a big thing.

 

[smokeurobinson]

I cried real tears when they broke up

It was NWA and EPMD both being rumored to haven broken up around the same time...



and it was liek a divorce...
das efx went with P and Redman went with E and Red and E kept getting bigger while P and Das Efx fell off.


It was like when Kanye and Jay Z got bigger and Cam siding with Dame fell off.

 

[smokeurobinson]

E fell off so hard going into that solo,...what happened.

He lost his other half, thats what happened. I heard it when Hitten Switches and Stay Real were the singles promoting Es first solo. It was the EPMD sound but something was missing. It was Ps presence thats what was missing. I feel like E eventually came into his own mold with Redman and Keith murray later down the line but immediatly after EPMD there was that somethings missing element.


That direction they were going on the 4th album was different. They were actually elevating their sound while at same time preseving it. Their music was the best representation of growth on a level we wouldnt see again till De Las 3rd album. But when they broke up its as of they took their elements with them

E was obviously the Boogie aspect of the music while P was more the "familiar break beat" aspect. I caught it when P finally put out his 1st solo and had I saw it coming as his first single





This would be confirmed when he picked his next single to be that Roll Bounce shyt.



I concluded that when it came to a song like The Crossover P would be the guy who picked the hook while E is the one who did the beat they rhyme over. EPMD breaking up was like E being the Crossover beat with no hook and PMD being the Crossover with only a hook and no beat.

 

[smokeurobinson]

And they titled all their album with Buisness

P kept the tradition going when he went solo. Eric didnt.


way before Fat Joe and Juicy J, Eric Sermon had bangers way after his prime when he too was supposed to be fall off status.


E made his comeback along with marvin Gaye in 2001.







E passing the torch to Just Blaze in 2002

 

[Taadow]

They would not flip them as good as Erick sermon.

That doesn't change my statement/point.

If Erick and Parrish never existed, "More Bounce To The Ounce" and "Jungle Boogie"
are still getting sampled. It's a reach to say every song that sampled them did so strictly
because EPMD did it.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

One of my top 5 groups but they peaked too early and the size groups/duos grew to and success they had in the 90's made them easy to eclipse as far as who gets mentioned (wu, atcq, mobb, kast, bone, dpg etc)

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Also, Its a stretch to say they influenced g funk, hip hop has flipped so many of the same samples. Maybe they helped put a sample on the radar, but the beats they made and how they were flipped in g funk is different. The same way nikkas like diddy and jermaine dupri flipped 70's/80's samples differently than how they were used by 80's rappers.

 

[Art Barr]

That doesn't change my statement/point.

If Erick and Parrish never existed, "More Bounce To The Ounce" and "Jungle Boogie"
are still getting sampled. It's a reach to say every song that sampled them did so strictly
because EPMD did it.

In rap, if someone does a loop that well.
You really fall into the category of needing to go find a new beat or flip it..especially in the conversion of break beat to the emulation sonically to match the instrumentation of the period and selections that were sampled.
In that sermon made pretty much the definitive work.
where now you are just parroting and retracing what was already resupplied via the already credible sampled work.

It is simply ego that will make you go with a beat that is synomous with cultural staples in rap.
Plus why most artist who did retread the material usually failed critically and needed some mainstream marketing device to supplant the cultural verdict of the record as well.

Hence why California love retreads knick knack patry wack or even beastie boy loops on the chronic.
As the resources were they to just jack the loop devoid of past critical success and offer a new submission.
Typically though, if you retreaded a loop on a cultural submission that had critical acclaim with no resources you got dissed.
That is also a protection mechanism the prison industrial economy ruined and eventually ruined past the point of no return in draw.


Art Barr

 

[Art Barr]

Also, Its a stretch to say they influenced g funk, hip hop has flipped so many of the same samples. Maybe they helped put a sample on the radar, but the beats they made and how they were flipped in g funk is different. The same way nikkas like diddy and jermaine dupri flipped 70's/80's samples differently than how they were used by 80's rappers.

I would not use dupri and puff as examples.
As they produced a remedial form of records via production.
That actually hurt rap and pigeon holed it into the pop doldrum sector of hell we all are now trapped in.

Art Barr

 

[patscorpio]

Dope thread plus they put on my homie Stezo ...salute EPMD

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

I would not use dupri and puff as examples.
As they produced a remedial form of records via production.
That actually hurt rap and pigeon holed it into the pop doldrum sector of hell we all are now trapped in.

Art Barr

i disagree...

 

[Art Barr]

i disagree...

Do we have to go through and revisit the actual process in which they created records.
All cause I do know them rather well.
Plus how culturally dishonest they are.
So we can visit their creative process if you like.....

Art Barr

 

[Taadow]

In rap, if someone does a loop that well.
You really fall into the category of needing to go find a new beat or flip it..especially in the conversion of break beat to the emulation sonically to match the instrumentation of the period and selections that were sampled.
In that sermon made pretty much the definitive work.
where now you are just parroting and retracing what was already resupplied via the already credible sampled work.

It is simply ego that will make you go with a beat that is synomous with cultural staples in rap.
Plus why most artist who did retread the material usually failed critically and needed some mainstream marketing device to supplant the cultural verdict of the record as well.

Hence why California love retreads knick knack patry wack or even beastie boy loops on the chronic.
As the resources were they to just jack the loop devoid of past critical success and offer a new submission.
Typically though, if you retreaded a loop on a cultural submission that had critical acclaim with no resources you got dissed.
That is also a protection mechanism the prison industrial economy ruined and eventually ruined past the point of no return in draw.


Art Barr

In the grand scheme of things, this is true...but this is mostly for flips of obscure records that become rap staples later.

For songs that are already funk classics, there are umpteen rappers rapping over those beats.
Nobody is gonna get special props as 'influential' for looping "Genius Of Love", "Cutie Pie", or records like that
because anybody anywhere who has a tape of them rapping in 1988 (even on some 'i'm fuccin' around in the basement' chit)
rapped to those.

It can't simply be "I rapped to that just because of (fill in the name of artist)."