Why It's Impossible to Indict a Cop

Jutt

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As opposed to govt. answering to govt. :comeon:
The threat of being replaced and out of a job is more incentive than govt. will ever have to act right. Its becoming clear that you do not believe in competition what so ever as it answers most of the question you raise.
It's in a sense the same thing. The corporations are gonna be in bed with the govt.


You keep bringing up competition like that means remotely ANYTHING to the functionality of a private police force. You keep reguritating the same "free market" and "competition" points, that's all well and good, but there's just not a practical way for this to function.



I've posted SEVERAL incidents from just one company whereas nobody was brought up on charges for the shyt they do. The big corporations now are damn near invincible, but you somehow think "competition" will solve that? :heh:



You're either trolling or don't have an idea of the real world.
 

DEAD7

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For one, our goal is for institutions to become more accountable, not less. Privatizing a

police force not only removes accountability, it erases it all together
The profit motive has proven to be much more reliable in predicting behavior. If we are going to accept the "greedy capitalist that only care about their bottom line" narrative, we must apply it here as well, and assume tying their profits to their conduct will produce better results.
 

DEAD7

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It's in a sense the same thing. The corporations are gonna be in bed with the govt.
:scust:
correct me if im wrong but the grand jury is directed by the states attorney, who decides what evidence they are shown. :heh:


You really think govt. overseeing a private firm is the same as govt. overseeing govt.?:ohhh: Well then I get how absurd privatization sounds to you then. All I can do is tell you they are not the same thing, and competitors will provide an added level of scrutiny.
 

Jutt

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:scust:
correct me if im wrong but the grand jury is directed by the states attorney, who decides what evidence they are shown. :heh:


You really think govt. overseeing a private firm is the same as govt. overseeing govt.?:ohhh: Well then I get how absurd privatization sounds to you then. All I can do is tell you they are not the same thing, and competitors will provide an added level of scrutiny.
:snoop: didnt you hypothesize that the govt would be putting these organizations in power in the first place?



You're CLEARLY missing the point here, which is, if the govt is enabling this particular organization, you mean to tell me that isn't a conflict of interest? We've SEEN this. It is in a sense the exact same thing. Tell me how it isn't. and don't give me no bullshyt "competition" because it has ZERO to do with the practical implementation of enforcing the law from a private standpoint. ANY person who has been granted power is in a position to abuse it. Thats human. I know you're a champion for free market, but this system really doesn't have any advantages over our current system. In fact, I'd argue that it creates more of a lane for corruption.
 

DEAD7

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:snoop: didnt you hypothesize that the govt would be putting these organizations in power in the first place?



You're CLEARLY missing the point here, which is, if the govt is enabling this particular organization, you mean to tell me that isn't a conflict of interest? We've SEEN this. It is in a sense the exact same thing. Tell me how it isn't. and don't give me no bullshyt "competition" because it has ZERO to do with the practical implementation of enforcing the law from a private standpoint. ANY person who has been granted power is in a position to abuse it. Thats human. I know you're a champion for free market, but this system really doesn't have any advantages over our current system. In fact, I'd argue that it creates more of a lane for corruption.
They would be competing for the contracts, yes... and the contracts would be renewed if the community was satisfied with their service.
Govt. doesn't have to satisfy anyone... they cannot be replaced. How are they the same thing? :wtf:
 

Jutt

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They would be competing for the contracts, yes... and the contracts would be renewed if the community was satisfied with their service.
Govt. doesn't have to satisfy anyone... they cannot be replaced. How are they the same thing? :wtf:
Because the govt is in a sense putting them in power. Who does the company answer to then? Themselves? :mjlol:




Then.....wait for it








The police would be policing themselves ...Sound familiar?









I think it does. I'm done with this debate because you clearly have no intentions of bringing a legitimate counterpoint that doesn't support your agenda
 

DEAD7

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Because the govt is in a sense putting them in power. Who does the company answer to then? Themselves? :mjlol:
The actors put into power by the state are removable... govt. isn't... Not sure how the difference is so hard to see.

private firms don't get paid if they violate the terms of the contract... Govt. gets paid no matter what.
private firms will have to pay fines out of pocket... govt. pays with tax payer money(the people fining them) :deadmanny:
For you to say, there will be no difference :dead:
 

Jutt

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The actors put into power by the state are removable... govt. isn't... Not sure how the difference is so hard to see.

private firms don't get paid if they violate the terms of the contract... Govt. gets paid no matter what.
private firms will have to pay fines out of pocket... govt. pays with tax payer money(the people fining them) :deadmanny:
For you to say, there will be no difference :dead:
And who exactly is enforcing this? If there is no oversight they're policing themselves. I dont get whats so hard for YOU to see.
 

DEAD7

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Could you imagine a private law enforcement firm, choking man to death, with an illegal choke hold, in broad daylight, on cam, suffering no repercussion? :skip:
You're saying it would unfold the same way.....





:deadmanny:Unreal.
We will just have to agree to disagree.
 

Jutt

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:dwillhuh: Are you using the conflict of interest between the private force and govt. to downplay the greater conflict between govt. and itself?

edit: and I can... explain it slowly please.
Breh, i've used several arguments to solidify my point. If you can't see that I don't know what else to tell you. I'm not gonna sit here and debate in circles with you.
 

DEAD7

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first place?



You're CLEARLY missing the point here, which is, if the govt is enabling this particular organization, you mean to tell me that isn't a conflict of interest?
No I get this. What you're missing is that its a greater conflict to have govt. overseeing itself. You have yet to demonstrate how govt. overseeing private is worse than it overseeing itself. You just keep stating that there will be a conflict of interest, as if that is in question.
 

88m3

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On Job Application, Cop Who Killed 12-Year-Old Listed ‘Under-The-Table Jobs’ As Prior Employment
BY ERICA HELLERSTEIN POSTED ON DECEMBER 5, 2014 AT 10:27 AM

AP15594127985-638x511.jpg

Demonstrators block Public Square in Cleveland, during a protest.

CREDIT: AP PHOTO/TONY DEJAK

Timothy Loehmann, the 26-year-old Cleveland police officer who fatally gunned down 12-year-old Tamir Rice, admitted on his job application for the Cleveland Police Department that his primary source of income prior to his hiring was “under-the-table jobs,” ThinkProgress found after reviewing a public records request from the city’s Police Department.

Despite listing his primary source of income for six months prior to his application as “under-the-table jobs,” Loehmann was nevertheless hired for the law enforcement position in March 2013.

under-the-table-jobs-638x229.jpg

From July to December 2012, Loehmann worked as a full-time Patrolman for the City of Independence, Ohio. “Upon completion of the police academy, I received my OPOTA commission on December 4, 2012. I resigned from my position on December 5, 2012 for personal reasons,” Loehmann wrote in a March 12 statement detailing his work history.

However, documents from the Independence Police Department tell a different story — that the officer who shot and killed Rice for playing with a toy pistol had a flawed gun handling record himself, and that had he not formally resigned from his job he would have been dismissed.

In a November 2012 letter contained in Loehmann’s file, Independence Deputy Chief Jim Pulak recounted a disturbing series of events in which the young officer buckled under pressure, displayed startling emotional immaturity, and conducted the most basic functions of his job with apathy and carelessness. “He was not mentally prepared to do firearm training,” Pulak wrote, adding that during firearms qualification training Loehmann was “distracted and weepy. He could not follow simple directions, could not communicate clear thoughts nor recollections, and his handgun performance was dismal. After some talking it was clear to Sgt. Tinnirello that the recruit was just not mentally prepared to be doing firearm training.”

Pulak attributes Loehmann’s emotional volatility to a turbulent relationship with his “on and off again girlfriend whom he was dealing with till 0400 hrs the night before. Some of the comments made by Ptl. Loehmann during this discourse were to the effect of, ‘I should have gone to NY,’ ‘maybe I should quit,’ ‘I have no friends,’ ‘I only hang out with 74 yr old priests,’ ‘I have cried every day for 4 months about this girl.’”

He concluded that Loehmann “does not possess the maturity, commitment, and discretion necessary to perform well as an officer and recommended that he be “released from the employment of the City of Independence. Due to this dangerous loss of composure during live range training and his inability to manage this personal stress, I do not believe Ptl. Loehmann shows the maturity needed to work in our employment…I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct these deficiencies.”

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On March 3, the day of Loehmann’s hiring, he consented to a background check commissioned by the City of Cleveland. In a stunning lack of oversight, however, the Cleveland Police Department never reviewed Loehmann’s Independence personnel file before hiring him — though they did hire detectives to conduct the check. Loehmann was hired despite a sub-standard work history, acknowledgment of under-the-table jobs directly preceding his employment, and explicit red flags raised by former police officers.

In Loehmann’s personnel requisition, the Cleveland Police Department defines his position’s primary responsibilities: “Protect life and property. Enforces laws and ordinances. Prevents and detects crime. Acts without direct supervision and exercises independent judgment in meeting complex situations.”

ThinkProgress contacted the City of Independence Police Department for comment on Loehmann’s troubles but has not heard back.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...o-under-the-table-jobs-on-police-application/
 
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