Why nobody would average 50 today

[MicIsGod]

The spacing has a bigger impact on role players than superstars

The point being outlined is that simply due to the nature of tha game, nobody's gonna be in a position where they're shooting at the volume required to account for that much of their team's offense. It's never happened. Even Wilt's 50 PPG season topped out at 40% of his team's scoring.

Nobody is averaging 50. Iverson with a 5 out offense is putting up harden numbers though. A lot of dudes will either put up more points are be much more efficient

 

[FunkDoc1112]

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO
WITH HUMANS GETTING WORSE.

IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO
WITH THE LEAGUE STYLE
AND RULE CHANGES BEING
GEARED TOWARDS THE OFFENSE



​

ALl that means is that MJ and Kobe would put up only marginally higher numbers, but on superior efficiency. You guys fail to understand the volume and minutes side of the equation, the way the game flows, the way defenses respond to scoring outbursts now.

 

[FunkDoc1112]

Nobody is averaging 50. Iverson with a 5 out offense is putting up harden numbers though. A lot of dudes will either put up more points are be much more efficient

Even with better spacing AI is still gonna taking a lot of tough shots and not playing the same minutes he did before; his efficiency will be better and it'll likely have a more positive role on the offense than it did in 2001 but the raw numbers would be similar. And plus teams are way more weary of short guys who are defensive liabilities these days; undersized scorers had their golden era in the 2010s but they're dying out the way big men did in the late 00s/early 10s. Tyrese Maxey and Trae Young are the last bastion of that style but Tyrese is a dog on defense while Trae's effectiveness has fallen off a cliff.

 

[MicIsGod]

Even with better spacing AI is still gonna taking a lot of tough shots and not playing the same minutes he did before; his efficiency will be better and it'll likely have a more positive role on the offense than it did in 2001 but the raw numbers would be similar. And plus teams are way more weary of short guys who are defensive liabilities these days; undersized scorers had their golden era in the 2010s but they're dying out the way big men did in the late 00s/early 10s

That last point is true, but the best of the best are the ones who will stay around. Like Brunson. Iverson would be much much more efficient. Kobe would probably get to 37-38 ish in that year he went crazy with today’s spacing

 

[FunkDoc1112]

That last point is true, but the best of the best are the ones who will stay around. Like Brunson. Iverson would be much much more efficient. Kobe would probably get to 37-38 ish in that year he went crazy with today’s spacing

I think 37 is max, keep in mind that 2019 Harden had the highest points-per-100 possessions of all time by a pretty decent margin (48.2 and #2 is 87 MJ at 46.4) and he topped out at 36 PPG. Now granted, the Rockets were one of the slowest teams in the league in 2019 while the 06 Lakers were right at league average, but even if you adjust Harden's raw PPG for pace that number is 36.8 PPG - and keep in mind, one of the keys to Harden's game is his ability to hit 3s off the dribble - Kobe was never a great 3-point shooter. In 2019 Harden shot 37% from 3 with 75% of his 3's being unassisted. Kobe in 06 shot 34% with only 30% of his 3's being unassisted. And 2019 Harden's efficiency relative to the league was better than Kobe's was at any point of his career

 

[MicIsGod]

I think 37 is max, keep in mind that 2019 Harden had the highest points-per-100 possessions of all time by a pretty decent margin (48.2 and #2 is 87 MJ at 46.4) and he topped out at 36 PPG. Now granted, the Rockets were one of the slowest teams in the league in 2019 while the 06 Lakers were right at league average, but even if you adjust Harden's raw PPG for pace that number is 36.8 PPG - and keep in mind, one of the keys to Harden's game is his ability to hit 3s off the dribble - Kobe was never a great 3-point shooter. In 2019 Harden shot 37% from 3 with 75% of his 3's being unassisted. Kobe in 06 shot 34% with only 30% of his 3's being unassisted. And 2019 Harden's efficiency relative to the league was better than Kobe's was at any point of his career

This is my thing though. You can’t really compare efficiency stats when I have 2 bigs who can’t shoot and likely someone else who can’t shoot on the court constantly. We don’t know what Kobe would do, but I know he’s a better scorer than harden on his prime. Harden had a legit 5 out with a lob threat. Sometimes pj tucker at the 5. And he still wasn’t as efficient as you would think.

 

[FunkDoc1112]

This is my thing though. You can’t really compare efficiency stats when I have 2 bigs who can’t shoot and likely someone else who can’t shoot on the court constantly. We don’t know what Kobe would do, but I know he’s a better scorer than harden on his prime. Harden had a legit 5 out with a lob threat. Sometimes pj tucker at the 5. And he still wasn’t as efficient as you would think.

But Kobe deliberately took tough shots, sometimes even forgoing easier shots in favor of difficult one. I'm not saying Kobe would be worse, but with his style of ball I don't see him exceeding what Harden would do in that environment. A big reason Harden is able to take advantage of the spacing is his 3-point shot.

 

[FTBS]

I think more 5 out offense greatly affects scoring. Dude were putting up numbers with 2-3 dudes on the court who cant shoot. Spacing is the real difference. Imagine Kobe with harden spacing .

Harden maxed out at 25 shots and 13 of them were 3s. Kobe avg fewer points on more shots and shot half as many 3s in more minutes in a league that had just introduced freedom of movement and hadn't fully embraced the zone yet. Kobe is better obviously but that offense was tailor made for Harden and was not Kobe's style. Look at how he spoke about it. He said Harden would never win, not because of his ability but because of that offense.

 

[MicIsGod]

Harden maxed out at 25 shots and 13 of them were 3s. Kobe avg fewer points on more shots and shot half as many 3s in more minutes in a league that had just introduced freedom of movement and hadn't fully embraced the zone yet. Kobe is better obviously but that offense was tailor made for Harden and was not Kobe's style. Look at how he spoke about it. He said Harden would never win, not because of his ability but because of that offense.

Kobe averaged 35 with Chris mihm, kwame brown, and smush Parker on the floor. You don’t think he’d eclipse harden with today’s typical spacing lineups? Kobe wouldn’t shoot more 3s if he came up in this era, given that being what the best players do? This is my point. We’re going back and comparing advanced stats and they don’t account for the era. I know Kobe is better than harden and if his 35 ppg year was in 2018, it likely would’ve been higher and/or more efficient.

 

[Street Knowledge]

It’s almost as stupid as the nfl fans who think QBs from the 80’s would throw 65 touchdowns today

 

[No_bammer_weed]

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO
WITH HUMANS GETTING WORSE.

IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO
WITH THE LEAGUE STYLE
AND RULE CHANGES BEING
GEARED TOWARDS THE OFFENSE

nikkaS WERE GETTING 35+
WHEN THEY STILL HAD
2 NON SHOOTING BIGS
CLOGGING UP THE SPACING
ON TOP OF PLAYERS ACTUALLY
BEING ALLOWED TO DEFEND


​

Enough with these lazy narratives about players not allowed to play defense or whatever..

This complication of fouls are just as hard body as your old, 90s stuff.

 

[FaTaL]

only wilt could average 50 today on a really bad team with no other options

 

[FTBS]

Kobe averaged 35 with Chris mihm, kwame brown, and smush Parker on the floor. You don’t think he’d eclipse harden with today’s typical spacing lineups? Kobe wouldn’t shoot more 3s if he came up in this era, given that being what the best players do? This is my point. We’re going back and comparing advanced stats and they don’t account for the era. I know Kobe is better than harden and if his 35 ppg year was in 2018, it likely would’ve been higher and/or more efficient.

You cant talk about what's typical today with regards to spacing and ignore what's typical today with regards to attempts, kind of attempts, defensive/offesive strategy, and usage. Then you gotta consider player's approach and skillset and how it fits with all that. Its not as simple is Kobe is better so Kobe scores more.

 

[Remote]

Luka got that by basically controlling the ball every possession, Kobe and MJ have never played heliocentric ball to that degree for significant stretches and MJ in the phase of his career where he was averaging 37 didn't have the playmaking chops for that tto be a winnable style of basketball, and has alreayd been outlined, the percentage of a team's offense needed to score 40 for an entire season has literally never been done for more than 20 games in the entire history of the NBA.

It's not happenng and y'all need to let go of fanfiction.

Like be realistic nikkas. Do you honestly believe that humans have actually gotten worse at sports over 30 years of advancements to the game, training, travel and medical treatments

He didn’t watch the video. Because he’s not interested in learning anything.

 

[MicIsGod]

You cant talk about what's typical today with regards to spacing and ignore what's typical today with regards to attempts, kind of attempts, defensive/offesive strategy, and usage. Then you gotta consider player's approach and skillset and how it fits with all that. Its not as simple is Kobe is better so Kobe scores more.

Agree to disagree.