Your Job Is Pointless

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

What I'm saying is that it is up to the working-class to restructure society in a way that frees it from exploitation and allows for the full development of people as human beings.

What exactly is "full development of people as human beings"?

If people are obligated to contribute to society, how is it not exploitation just because it's not through an employer?

Part of that means abolishing superfluous/wasteful and distasteful labor, some of which would be done away with through automation, some of which would go because such jobs would have no function under different relations of production where production occurs for need, not profit.

Companies operate for profit.... i.e. the world as you see it is as automated as it can be as a machine is almost always cheaper to utilize than a person.

And if anything, the kind of work that is prompted by need rather than profit is even LESS fulfilling than an "awful desk job". Those are jobs like garbage collectors, prison wardens, and other jobs exclusive to the public sector. Working as a garbage collector is a good and honest living but are you really going to sit here and tell me such a job will enable the "full development of people as human beings"?

Workers absolutely need to take control of their lives. And that's all I ever talk about when it comes to these matters on here. It's about the working-class exercising its power, taking its destiny into its hands, and restructuring society along just, humane lines as per its material interests. That's the task of the working-class. Fukk a "govt/your employer," it's not in their interests to take up that historical task, nor would they be capable of fulfilling it.

So now working in a climate controlled legally regulated place of employment is inhumane

Can you stop speaking in all these feel good platitudes and just lay out your step by step vision of how the world would work if you had your way?

 

[ZEB WALTON]

Im an engineer and i try not to let work bother me. My boss is taking in more than we can handle and i just zone out now. fukk work

 

[ZEB WALTON]

What exactly is "full development of people as human beings"?

If people are obligated to contribute to society, how is it not exploitation just because it's not through an employer?


Companies operate for profit.... i.e. the world as you see it is as automated as it can be as a machine is almost always cheaper to utilize than a person.

And if anything, the kind of work that is prompted by need rather than profit is even LESS fulfilling than an "awful desk job". Those are jobs like garbage collectors, prison wardens, and other jobs exclusive to the public sector. Working as a garbage collector is a good and honest living but are you really going to sit here and tell me such a job will enable the "full development of people as human beings"?


So now working in a climate controlled legally regulated place of employment is inhumane

Can you stop speaking in all these feel good platitudes and just lay out your step by step vision of how the world would work if you had your way?

I renember taking my last set of finals studying wit my friends as wewereLl bout to become elctrical engineers. We all agreed we shoulda just signed up for sanitation. More money. Lol. Fml

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

Social media is fukking the game up.

It was harder to compare yourself to the next man when you ain't have to see it.

well yea but i think its more that social media has exacerbated the problem of people [for some reason] to compare and trend with others rather than being comfortable within themselves but thats about confidence, or the lack thereof, narcissism and ultimately hubris...its not like people werent aware of the riches of others prior to social media..or their own misery...it just didnt lead to them necessarily being less engaged while working nor did it take away the meaning of their work to the point where they thought it was pointless. they would say you know, this shyt is garbage, but my family needs to advance. the people surveyed are saying fukk that now too basically because they hate their own families so 'why am i forcing myself into misery just to feed a sunk cost worth of bullshyt at home' ..thats not social media's fault. thats a failure on the individual to develop their intellect as to learn what to avoid and what to value. its the same thing as gun rights argument essentially. social media doesnt partake in social media, people partake in social media. it didnt change the game really, it just put the shyt on PEDs and it hasnt helped that it spread to the old, famous and wealthy as a tool when it was originally for networking amongst students. shyt..i couldnt get on facebook until i got invited from someone in a specific college and it was more strict before that. bloggers had the worst connotation on the planet when it came to credibility and zero fukks were given. now look at this global frankenstein

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I dont even know where to begin with this one.

I can get with wanting employers to provide decent pay and benefits. I think the state of healthcare and maternity/paternity leave in the US is deplorable for example. Everyone including the businesses lose. But this is ridiculous. Work can be, but is not REQUIRED to be "fulfilling", and if you derive your sense of purpose/wealth/fulfilment from your work IMO you are making a mistake. I derive my purpose from what I do for my family and my community. A job is just a means to that end.

I guarantee outside of work most of these whiny MFers don't do shyt. They probably just drink and browse Facebook. You want to have some purpose in your life? Volunteer. Take up a new skill. Form meaningful relationships. Do something worth doing with the time and energy you have outside of your job. That is ON YOU. You nikkas want some overarching entity to provide u with not just basic necessities, but now happiness and a sense of purpose Where does it stop.... do u want the govt/your employer to brush your teeth, dress you, wipe your ass, tuck u in at night? We have to take ownership of our lives at SOME POINT.

Why can't we be better e-friends

@Ben Carson come dap this piff above me

 

[CHL]

I honestly don't know if we will be around that long. And in any case I won't be here so I don't really see the point in mulling over that beyond saving the environment for them.

"What will humans be doing in 200 years" is the kind of question only someone with the luxury of a lot of free time would ask.

Your lack of foresight is why sometimes you devolve to napoleon level

 

[Deutsche Bank]

Why can't we be better e-friends

@Ben Carson come dap this piff above me

He's right, but nowadays dudes act like hoes. Told you, socialists outta ctrl on here. We already got that shyt in America. You can be unemployed, go get food stamps, social security, HUD housing, Medicaid and Medicare, then go get Pell Grants and Stafford loans to go to college or trade school.

These kids want more free shyt, though, they wanna feel "fulfilled" lol. Like a yuppie 80's housewife. fukk outta here, lil nikkas won't even make their student loan payments and talking bout being unhappy. They got mafias in India selling sleep like it's crack, so these bozos can have cheap WiFi and they use it to talk about how oppressed they are all the time.

This board has gotten so faggy, mane. Dudes got higher intelligence and they posed to be killers, but they sitting here trying to play dress-up with the "proletariat". nikka, most muthafukkas are stupid, that's why they're unhappy. Have you ever talked to the average man on the street? He's literally a couple points away from being retarded, yet people are suggesting he should be able to enjoy life and feel fulfilled in his work.

My bytch thinks the government should ban sugar, alcohol, and junk food to curb illness. You can't make this shyt up, matey; most people are completely irresponsible idiots, and it's the intelligentsia's duty to sell them dreams and sheer em, not hold their hand in feigned victimhood.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I don't know where to begin with this one either. This post, perhaps more than any you've ever made before in our interactions, shows that you woefully misunderstand what I've been saying for months. Not to mention it shows that you've never engaged substantively with Marx or other actual leftist thought.

Once again, this bullshyt trope about, "if you disagree with me, you've never read any books I like"....

You gotta stop thinking that people can't completely understand you and still disagree with you...it shows rhetorical immaturity.

Work can be fulfilling, yes. And I agree that, at least under capitalism, deriving ones purpose, fulfillment, or whatever else solely from work is a mistake.

Did capitalism steal your bytch or something? You sound like capitalism somehow is uniquely placed to only make people do work they don't enjoy...as if thats some single phenomenon not present in other economic models.

But people are alienated from their work under capitalism due to specific relations of production and the process of exploitation.

Not everyone gets to be the boss. You using the word "exploitation" won't change that. shyt needs to get delegated and handled...and yet if you didn't, you'd complain about the LACK of jobs. Tons of people are put to work for sheer redundancy to keep society working smoothly...we don't need a lot of them.

Look at the language we're using here in the first place: we speak of "work" and "jobs" as means to an end (which they are), something distasteful that we have to get through to do for our families and communities.

It sounds like the term "adult" is also "capitalism scourge" to you as well. Do you know nothing about any sort of resistance to something you hate doing but need to do for your own benefit?

Is Exercise also in this category?

I even agree with what people should be doing outside of work.

But don't ever get it fukked up.

I'm not saying the government () or a company should be expected to, or can, provide a sense of happiness or fulfillment to people. That's a stupid demand.

and you're arguing because...?

What I'm saying is that it is up to the working-class to restructure society in a way that frees it from exploitation and allows for the full development of people as human beings.

What the fukk does this even mean?

People are useful for their range of skills and assets. If you lack either, you will find yourself doing very little.

You act like the Soviet Space Program just made janitors become engineers. Didn't happen that way.

Part of that means abolishing superfluous/wasteful and distasteful labor, some of which would be done away with through automation, some of which would go because such jobs would have no function under different relations of production where production occurs for need, not profit.

Need = Government
Profit = Private

Thats it.

And who are you to determine whats "distasteful?"

Workers absolutely need to take control of their lives. And that's all I ever talk about when it comes to these matters on here. It's about the working-class exercising its power, taking its destiny into its hands, and restructuring society along just, humane lines as per its material interests. That's the task of the working-class. Fukk a "govt/your employer," it's not in their interests to take up that historical task, nor would they be capable of fulfilling it.

The day you graduate is going to be glorious.

 

[MewTwo]

 

[A Real Human Bean]

The posts in this thread really show how heavily propagandized many Americans have become since the beginning of the era of neoliberalization. A lot of people don't even have an argument as to why things are the way they are beyond positing "That's the way it goes". They've lazily given up progressive views towards civilized life and abandoned all ideas of moral progress as humans, believing society as it is today to be the final state of human civilization.

To be clear, it is possible to restructure work so that everyone is their own "boss" so to speak. There are many companies that are structured like this. They're typically called worker cooperatives or worker-owned enterprises, and they're quite successful.

Also, believing wage labor to be affront to human dignity is not a new idea. It is a view that was held by none other than neoliberal-favorite Adam Smith, who stated:

The man whose whole life is spent in performing a few simple operations, of which the effects are perhaps always the same, or very nearly the same, has no occasion to exert his understanding or to exercise his invention in finding out expedients for removing difficulties which never occur. He naturally loses, therefore, the habit of such exertion, and generally becomes as stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human creature to become.

 

[Street Knowledge]

Life is too short to bust your ass for crap pay working for companies and businesses you don't own and can't pass down to your children

 

[CHL]

The posts in this thread really show how heavily propagandized many Americans have become since the beginning of the era of neoliberalization. A lot of people don't even have an argument as to why things are the way they are beyond positing "That's the way it goes". They've lazily given up progressive views towards civilized life and abandoned all ideas of moral progress as humans, believing society as it is today to be the final state of human civilization.

To be clear, it is possible to restructure work so that everyone is their own "boss" so to speak. There are many companies that are structured like this. They're typically called worker cooperatives or worker-owned enterprises, and they're quite successful.

Also, believing wage labor to be affront to human dignity is not a new idea. It is a view that was held by none other than neoliberal-favorite Adam Smith, who stated:

@GinaThatAintNoDamnPuppy!

 

[JahFocus CS]

What exactly is "full development of people as human beings"?

If people are obligated to contribute to society, how is it not exploitation just because it's not through an employer?


Companies operate for profit.... i.e. the world as you see it is as automated as it can be as a machine is almost always cheaper to utilize than a person.

And if anything, the kind of work that is prompted by need rather than profit is even LESS fulfilling than an "awful desk job". Those are jobs like garbage collectors, prison wardens, and other jobs exclusive to the public sector. Working as a garbage collector is a good and honest living but are you really going to sit here and tell me such a job will enable the "full development of people as human beings"?


So now working in a climate controlled legally regulated place of employment is inhumane

Can you stop speaking in all these feel good platitudes and just lay out your step by step vision of how the world would work if you had your way?

What is unclear there? People being able to be fully realized individuals who develop to their potential, whose minds and bodies are engaged in all areas of life (including work).

I don't think you're understanding what is meant by "exploitation." I would recommend this article to you: What do we mean by exploitation?

If workers democratically decide on matters of production and distribution, it wouldn't be exploitation by definition. As opposed to capitalism, under which workers do not own the products of their labor, have little to no say in matters of production, and have surplus value extracted from them.

I do not agree that the world is as automated as it can be. Certainly not given the technology that we have available. Maybe it's as automated as it can be given how capitalism organizes labor and resources. But trillions go to waste on devising new ways of killing people to sustain the system and entire industries are organized around that. If the working class controlled production and the allocation of resources, such efforts could be put to use in a different direction.

Garbage collection could be automated. A job like that is certainly one that we want to move away from; nonetheless, that should not be one's career/vocation, and the working class could decide on how to handle those sorts of jobs until we reach a stage when we can automate them. Rotating duties like that among the members of a community is one way to handle it. Sure, you might say that people don't want to do that Well, if members of the working class who occupy more desirable positions than garbage collectors and the like under capitalism decide that fighting for socialism isn't worth it because those types of tasks might have to be shared (it's just one model that I'm suggesting), then the cost will be workers continuing to catch huge L's like police brutality, racism, meaningless jobs, shytty benefits and pay, perpetual insecurity, etc. It is in the interests of the bourgeoisie to promote the ideas about a hierarchy of labor and divide mental and physical work. Anything to create divisiveness in the ranks of the laboring masses

What makes it reasonable to demand that I lay out a step-by-step plan? I'm stating what's wrong with the current system and the direction the working class needs to struggle in, in order to free itself and improve the world. We know what drives the current system. That is incredibly powerful because that is true for the first time in human history, compared to other epochs and modes of production. Humanity learns through the path of activity and struggle. No "step-by-step" plan can act as a substitute for that.

 

[88m3]

@JahFocus CS @GinaThatAintNoDamnPuppy!


Do you guys feel your jobs are pointless? Do you tell yourself "I am not my job"?

 

[Gonzo]

Whats the alternative..... people without work are more likely to be depressed, suicidal, using drugs and engaging in criminal behavior.

I think there is this unreasonable expectation that life is supposed to always be awesome and easy and we should never have to do anything we don't want to do. shyt doesn't and CAN'T work that way.

Not to mention the people who do the most whining are the ones who have it easiest. "Poor little me, I have to sit in a comfy ass office and pontificate on my purpose in life while occasionally doing work"

It's not people's jobs that are depressing.... it's their lack of things they are passionate about; it's their lack of purpose; it's their lack of perspective and self awareness. Everyone in the Western World should spend some time in the 3rd world or doing some back breaking labor to get a fukking clue about how easy we have it. We could have been born in Nicaragua or Syria or North Korea. Obviously nothing is perfect but I'm happy as fukk to have a job and be in America.

Like the article stated people are not productive the entire 40 hour work week so why even bother requiring to work for that long?